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Edited by Cortana Five: 9/16/2014 11:45:21 PM
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THE NEW IP Bungie Formula:Durandal, Cortana, Joyeuse?

***Long friggin' post alert!*** [u]THIS IS A REVISED VERSION![/u] [quote][u]PLEASE FAVORITE THIS THREAD FOR FURTHER UPDATES![/u][/quote] The vast majority of my edits are due to [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715&postRepeater1-p=8#41730446]Ender's post here[/url] among others. I will cite him as much as possible in here. [quote]"My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Joyeuse and Durendal."[/quote] [b]Reader's Digest Version-ish[/b] This quote is the focus of my theory for a "formula" for Bungie trilogies. The quote above speaks of three famous swords that had once come together in battle. The three swords seem to correspond with two of the AIs from Marathon (Durandal) and Halo (Cortana). The third sword, Joyeuse, is the mystery AI and holder. If the first two swords can be proven to purposely correspond with the game characters, then perhaps Joyeuse and its holder (Charlemagne) is what the new IP's characters will be like. This theory also ties into several other theories. But in order to connect them while making sense, I must explain how and why the AIs and their swords correspond. As you read, keep [url=http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]Pfhorpedia[/url] handy if you're not in tune with the Marathon universe. While we're at it, [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]this[/url] and [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/]this[/url] may come in handy. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE MARATHON TRILOGY YOURSELF: Download the games through [url=http://source.bungie.org/index.php?title=Get_Marathon]Aleph One[/url]. We'll be talking a lot of Marathon in here, my friends. So to set the mood: ***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START*** ***TRANSPORT WHEN READY*** Dear reader, This is going to be a huge post. A [i]good[/i] post, but a long one. I mean, this [i]will[/i] take several slots to cover. So, grab a nice cup of coffee and a pair of reading glasses or something that will keep you awake and in your chair. Until the coffee passes though. [b]I will also ask you to take this thing with a pinch of salt[/b]. I don't know if this is the truth in its entirety, and you probably don't either. Unless you're someone like Joe Staten or Jason Jones who's [i]really[/i] bored on a coffee break and stumbled upon this thing. Then, of course, you'd know if this is dumb speculation or not. Wishful thinking, right? [u]Please, please, please!!![/u] Give me feedback on this, tell me about anything you may dig up on this stuff, and if any of my facts/lore/spelling/[b]grammer[/b]/bad jokes/historical events are incorrect. ***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START*** ***TRANSPORT WHEN READY*** [quote]Durandal-Durendal (Endurance- True definition unknown)*[/quote] *The name probably comes from the French verb "durer", "to endure". [u]Sword Info:[/u] In The Song of Roland, the sword is said to contain within its golden hilt one tooth of Saint Peter, blood of Saint Basil, hair of Saint Denis, and a piece of the raiment of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In the poem, *[i]Roland attempts to break Durendal by smiting it against a marble block ten times. This proves fruitless. The myth of him creating La Brèche is merely a folktale of the land. It is not stated as such in La Chanson de Roland (The Song of Roland).[/i] According to Ludovico Ariosto's Orlando Furioso it once belonged to Hector of Troy, and was given to Roland by Maugris. *[i]Orlando Furioso is a work created centuries after La Chanson do Roland. In La Chanson, it is made clear that Charlemagne was given instructions by the angel Gabriel to let Roland wield Durendal.[/i] By Ender. In [i]Marathon[/i], Durandal [u]told the player[/u] that he did not want to suffer the same fate as Leela, so he asked to be destroyed.* The player finds out that Durandal was not actually destroyed, just as Roland couldn't destroy the sword. (Note that the fate of Leela turned out to be completely different and that Durandal didn't actually want to be destroyed. He was loopy and rampant.) *[i]Please note that Durandal's request to be destroyed was part of a plot of his own, and not an honest request and that Leela was not actually destroyed either.[/i] [b]Holders:[/b] Hector of Troy and Count Roland Note: [i]MRN54 [url=http://www.marathon.org/story/mjolnir.html]may or may not be you[/url].[/i] [u]Hector of Troy & Mjolnir Recon Number 54[/u] (Not the forum ninja) Hector was a Trojan prince and the greatest fighter of Troy in the Trojan War and the son of Priam and Hecuba, a descendant of Dardanus (son of Zeus and Electra). Because Hector was a descendant of several gods, he would in theory be a hybrid of sorts. The parallel here is that MRN54 [i]is[/i] a cyborg and a fighter. From Marathon.Bungie.Org: [quote] There are those references to your physical ability: [i]You slam your fist in frustration onto the control panel[/i](Manual page 2) Whether this is of significance or not depends largely on what material the control panel is made of. We have no information on this. [i]It's funny, but you've always been the colony's trouble shooter. You're bigger and stronger, and a better shot. In games, you always scored the most points and looked the hero. (Manual page 2)[/i] [/quote]. [quote] Alas! the gods have lured me on to my destruction. ... death is now indeed exceedingly near at hand and there is no way out of it- for so Zeus and his son Apollo the far-darter have willed it, though heretofore they have been ever ready to protect me.} My doom has come upon me; let me not then die ingloriously and without a struggle, but let me first do some great thing that shall be told among men hereafter." -Spoken by Hector facing Achilles, after a missed spear-throw, The Iliad Book XXII Lines 299-305.[/quote] This quote could represent the AIs in the trilogy toying and luring the player towards his destruction or towards their will. The AIs had protected the player for their plans, and in a sense, the player was doomed to what they had in store for him. [u]Count Roland & MRN54:[/u] The tale of Roland's death is retold in the eleventh century poem [i]The Song of Roland[/i], where he is equipped with an unbreakable sword, enchanted by various Christian relics, named Durendal. As said earlier, Roland couldn't break the sword, just as MRN54 couldn't break Durandal throughout the trilogy. Orlando Furiouso (among other works) includes Roland's battle with a Saracen giant named Ferracutus who is only vulnerable at his navel. The W'rkncacnter; a being(s) seemingly indestructible may have been a reference to Ferractus. The Sacren's navel may have been represented by activating a Jjaro station to trap the W'rkncacnter. [quote] [i]To stop the Pfhor from their folly and our demise, you must activate the ancient station that Yrro used eons ago to trap the W'rkncacnter. If we can activate it in time, it will crush the Pfhor fleet before we're all destroyed.[/i] *You Think You're Big Time? You're Gonna Die Big Time! (Terminal 1)*[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ender If we restrict our view to the first Marathon game, it is more likely that the Ferracutus analogy is to The Pfhor. They are larger in numbers, more technologically advanced, and ready to squash us. We, however, find that they rely heavily on the S'pht slaves they captured. Durandal instructs us to free them and we do so, allowing a rebellion to unfold, crushing the Pfhor attack.[/quote] At last, a confirmation (one of many) of the connection between Roland's sword and your well behaved AI (Yes, that was sarcasm): The first terminal on Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! relates the tale of Count Roland, who near death, attempts to break his sword to prevent it from being taken by the Saracens. [quote][i]Count Roland smites upon the marble stone; I cannot tell you how he hewed it and smote; Yet the blade breaks not nor splinters, though it groans; Upward to heaven it rebounds from the blow. When the count sees it never will be broke, Then to himself right softly he makes moan; 'Ah, Durandal, fair, hallowed, and devote, What store of relics lies in thy hilt of gold!' -From The Song of Roland (Translated by Dorothy Sayers, Viking Penguin, NY, NY, 1957)[/i] *Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! (Terminal 1)*[/quote] [u]Roland and Charlemagne references by Durandal:[/u] -[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/sphtkr.html#Feel%20the%20Noise]Feel the noise[/url] -[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/roland.html]Roland[/url] By gathering this information, I can say with confidence that Durandal is [i]defiantly[/i] the spitting AI image of the sword Durendal, and that it's holders Roland and Hector are the inspiration for MRN54's situation involving the AIs in Marathon; specifically Durandal. ***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START*** ***TRANSPORT WHEN READY** [Edited on 02.12.2011 1:12 PM PST]

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  • As I see it, the different Bungie games are their own completely independent story lines. Though they have the same theme, and in a sense are connected in a way. My MRT thread backs this theory up. EDIT: A note on how the swords are connected. In Marathon, Durandal uses you, the player, as a tool to complete his mad ambitions of godhood. Though by the end of Infinity, you the player seem to be the one that escapes the universe, not Durandal. He states that after all that time, he didn't really give you much though. But at the end of things, he realizes you are in fact the only thing unaccounted for etc. (See end screen). As it turns out, knowingly or not, Durandal was your pawn, not the other way around. He was unknowingly your weapon to help you escape the closure. Now in Halo,the sword and holder role is much clearer. MC wields Cortana, who hacks Covenant tech, supplies Battlefield info etc. From what little info we have, I came up with the idea (based of my MRT thread) that: The sword and holder are born into a specific time and universe. They eventually meet, the sword taking the form of perhaps several entities (We only know of a literal sword or AI at this point). The holder uses the sword to complete some epic journey (Master Chiefs does not seem to be over yet), and eventually they are separated. Seeing as how Marathon is the only game thus far to complete the cycle, the sword "dies" while the holder move on to something else... Then they are reborn and it happens all over again. So, not only is this a formula for the next game, but perhaps how Halo will end as well. Once we have Halos ending, we may be able to figure out the next Bungie IP with a good amount of accuracy. [Edited on 09.05.2010 8:30 PM PDT]

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  • As far as I've gathered, yes. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Roland]Basically this[/url]. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sector Z 157 So, now that the swelling in my brain has gone down, let me get the straight. Durendal = Durandal (Sword) So Roland = MRN54 (Holder) Curtana = Cortana (Sword) Orien = John 117 (Holder) Joyeuse = New AI (Sword) Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder) So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story?[/quote]

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  • I did read through the whole post but I'm still trying to wrap my head around a lot of what was said. [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/terms/m2/M2.27.1.1.1.gif]Durandal The Sword[/url] I thought that was cool. Durandal the sword though a Pfhor skull. Also Durandal says this in the same terminal where I got the picture: [quote]"Durandan, Durandal, Durandana. Charlemagne used to always call me Durandana, the fruitcake. All the many implements of war to him were in some way feminine. Not that you know the story. Tycho never got it right either, especially the part about Roland breaking me. He couldn't. No one can. I'm certain that you are curious about what happened to me after our ship fell to the Pfhor. How after being deactivated, downloaded into a containment unit and still treated like the most dangerous artificial construct in the universe I was able to escape? And to assume control of the ship on which I was imprisoned and to turn it against its masters? The answer is simple: Tycho was a fool. But it was convenient for me to be absent, as Thoth might not have been so helpful had he known I still lived- that's something I'll have to explain later when we have more time. Thoth is now trying to aid the Pfhor, but they are obstinate and continue to ignore him. I don't think I have to tell you what to do here."[/quote] Not sure if it helps but it does coincide with the discussion. [Edited on 09.04.2010 10:22 PM PDT]

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  • I thought you might have. No worries!

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Vadam930 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sector Z 157 Durendal = Durandal (Sword) So Roland = MRN54 (Holder) Curtana = Cortana (Sword) Orien = John 117 (Holder) Joyeuse = New AI (Sword) Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder) So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story? [/quote] You got most of these the wrong way around. Durandal = Durandel (Sword) MRN54 = Roland (Holder) Cortana = Curtana (Sword) John 117 = Orien (Holder) Joyeuse = New AI (Sword) [i]Most likely.[/i] Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder) [i]Most likely.[/i] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sector Z 157 So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story?[/quote] I believe so. I think I'm right with these, anyway.[/quote]Whoops, sorry, I had it the wrong way around.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sector Z 157 Durendal = Durandal (Sword) So Roland = MRN54 (Holder) Curtana = Cortana (Sword) Orien = John 117 (Holder) Joyeuse = New AI (Sword) Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder) So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story? [/quote] You got most of these the wrong way around. Durandal = Durandel (Sword) MRN54 = Roland (Holder) Cortana = Curtana (Sword) John 117 = Orien (Holder) Joyeuse = New AI (Sword) [i]Most likely.[/i] Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder) [i]Most likely.[/i] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sector Z 157 So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story?[/quote] I believe so. I think I'm right with these, anyway. [Edited on 09.04.2010 7:51 PM PDT]

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  • So, now that the swelling in my brain has gone down, let me get the straight. Durendal = Durandal (Sword) So Roland = MRN54 (Holder) Curtana = Cortana (Sword) Orien = John 117 (Holder) Joyeuse = New AI (Sword) Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder) So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1065 [i]Long post here[/i] [/quote]I was thinking more along the lines of a totally new IP, and nothing in the Halo universe. If anything, I would doubt that 343i knows anything about said AI formula. But it's a good thought, nonetheless. [/quote] They do now, lol.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ApocalypeX The Disembodied Soul. If you think about it, its Bungie's attempt at building their own AI.[/quote]At first I thought that there was someone behind the Soul 100% of the time.

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  • The Disembodied Soul. If you think about it, its Bungie's attempt at building their own AI.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1065 [i]Long post here[/i] [/quote]I was thinking more along the lines of a totally new IP, and nothing in the Halo universe. If anything, I would doubt that 343i knows anything about said AI formula. But it's a good thought, nonetheless.

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  • While obviously Bungie will no longer be creating a Halo game I did think that Joyeuse and Charlemagne could allude to the next Halo game created by 343 Industries. What I'm about to propose is purely intuition after reading your thread and mulling over the points you bring up. If we are to assume that the Heroes of the video games, and their AI counterparts, are to be roughly comparable to their "real world" counterparts, then it makes sense to me that the next Halo game would have a more explicit involvement of the Forerunner. I say this because Charlemagne built a vast empire that controlled much of what was then considered the "civilized" world. It can be inferred then that the main character of the next game could be one of the Forerunner who was responsible for building their empire. Joyeuse the sword that Charlemagne used to help build his empire would then have a counterpart AI in the game just as Curtana and Duradal did. So I assume it would be a Forerunner AI working with the main character. While I think it is highly unlikely that there will be a Halo game made that will be told specifically from the point of view from the Forerunner, (the fans want to know what happened to the Chief)I think that it is very possible that Joyeuse and Charlemagne's counterpart could be the focus of the new Forerunner Trilogy of novels that is coming out. Of course I am backed up by no facts just my intuition after reading this information. [Edited on 07.20.2010 4:31 PM PDT]

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  • Wow. That makes a lot of sense I think you're on to something here.

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  • I didn't include Sauvagine because it wasn't inscribed on Curtana's blade. The meaning of Durandal isn't a big thing here, but I'm glad you knew it. The three swords didn't have anything to do with each other, as a matter of fact (other than Curtana's inscription). Their holders did, however. There are two Curtana swords, according to legend. One was Ogier the Dane's sword, the other is part of the crown jewels. Wikipedia in general is unreliable. I used it sparingly. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oo Clifford oO This is well thought but no, sorry. The three swords you are talking about are Courtain, Durandal and Sauvagine. Durandal doesn't mean 'to endure' in french, in fact it doesn't mean anything in french because Durandal come from doorndaal or dornthal which is the german name for Roncevaux (a french name this time), the place where died Roland, the holder of durandal (his sword was probably called Durandal after his death because of the miracle that happened at Roncevaux,also charlemagne most likely spoke german so it is because of that that the sword is not called roncevaux) Joyeuse is the name of the sword of Charlemagne it is right... but it doesn't have anything to do with durandal... Moreover Cortana come probably from curtana which is a ceremonial sword kept by 'Edouard le confesseur' and is used as a justice symbol... Indeed Curtana fits way more to Cortana than Courtain. Anyway I agree that the next 'important' AI will probably be bear a name of a sword but we don't really know which one it could be, even if 'joyeuse' is fine That's all, here is where I've got my information, it's in french ( I'm french) so... http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d%27objets_l%C3%A9gendaires#.C3.89p.C3.A9es http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durandal Oh, and I just checked out the english version: utterly wrong that's all, the french version is more reliable because it deals with French things you know...[/quote] According to theory, it meant that the three swords either had the same makers, were make from the same material source, etc. There were three brother blacksmiths who made swords, two of which made Curtana, Joyeuse, and Durendal. Anyways, the quote is on the actual sword, and was not said by the game character. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oo Clifford oO I may have misunderstood you but I have to make sure: it isn't cortana in the game that say " I am of the same steel bla bla", this sentence is supposed to be written on the real world sword curtana ( or courtain or cortana if you want ...) When she say I am of the same steel it means she was created at the same time that the two other swords ( the three sword were created by manifican and it took him three years to do them all at the same time) And yes they are all in the same era, during charlemagne life, but they are supposed to still exist today.[/quote]Nothing supports that other than the maker of the sword. But apparently Joyeuse is intended to be the third sword, according to Curtana's inscription and the history between Charlemagne, Roland, and Ogier. It would make [i]a lot[/i] more sense to have Joyeuse.[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oo Clifford oO But still, the third sword is not joyeuse(for sure), it is Sauvagine ( apparently)[/quote] [Edited on 07.08.2010 12:34 AM PDT]

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  • I may have misunderstood you but I have to make sure: it isn't cortana in the game that say " I am of the same steel bla bla", this sentence is supposed to be written on the real world sword curtana ( or courtain or cortana if you want ...) When she say I am of the same steel it means she was created at the same time that the two other swords ( the three sword were created by manifican and it took him three years to do them all at the same time) And yes they are all in the same era, during charlemagne life, but they are supposed to still exist today.

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  • First off, I feel like a baby amongst all these old timers. Secondly? Goodnight that was interesting! The connections all seem too perfect to overlook. The names and stories are so similar. And with Durandal and Cortana already in their games, It seems like this is almost positive proof of another game, Or at least another story to be told. A question I have though, Are all of the swords in the same era? Because when Cortana makes reference to the other two swords, Does it mean that they were all made at the same time, Or is it just speaking of history? The connections and stories and possibilities of a NEW story are incredible intriguing. I would very much enjoy seeing all of this work, And all of this Myth and legend come together. Especially if it meant that the Three Artificial Intelligences were to be joined in one huge story. Thank you so much Cortana for this information, And all the hard work you put into it. I had a great time reading it and the information was fantastic.:)

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  • Argh... Forget what I said about cortana... Indeed Cortana come from curtana, but curtana is the other name of courtain! Well, I guess Cortana and Durandal are linked after all... But still, the third sword is not joyeuse(for sure), it is Sauvagine ( apparently) [Edited on 07.07.2010 2:51 PM PDT]

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  • This is well thought but no, sorry. The three swords you are talking about are Courtain, Durandal and Sauvagine. Durandal doesn't mean 'to endure' in french, in fact it doesn't mean anything in french because Durandal come from doorndaal or dornthal which is the german name for Roncevaux (a french name this time), the place where died Roland, the holder of durandal (his sword was probably called Durandal after his death because of the miracle that happened at Roncevaux,also charlemagne most likely spoke german so it is because of that that the sword is not called roncevaux) Joyeuse is the name of the sword of Charlemagne it is right... but it doesn't have anything to do with durandal... Moreover Cortana come probably from curtana which is a ceremonial sword kept by 'Edouard le confesseur' and is used as a justice symbol... Indeed Curtana fits way more to Cortana than Courtain. Anyway I agree that the next 'important' AI will probably be bear a name of a sword but we don't really know which one it could be, even if 'joyeuse' is fine That's all, here is where I've got my information, it's in french ( I'm french) so... http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d%27objets_l%C3%A9gendaires#.C3.89p.C3.A9es http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durandal Oh, and I just checked out the english version: utterly wrong that's all, the french version is more reliable because it deals with French things you know... [Edited on 07.07.2010 11:49 AM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ImmortalJoshua What if you're thinking too much into all this and it's all just coincidence?[/quote] This theory is really has too much going for it to just be a coincidence.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ImmortalJoshua What if you're thinking too much into all this and it's all just coincidence?[/quote] Don't be such a spoil sport! XD I think it's a very well thought-out theory.

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  • What if you're thinking too much into all this and it's all just coincidence?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ExquisiteDragon [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ApocalypeX What about the AI in ONI?[/quote]You mean Shinamtama. I don't know much about her and I don't think that she's one of the AI's in this whole thing. But it couldn't hurt to look into it.[/quote]I think she was. *opens new tab for search*[/quote]It's super hard to find out much about her, but I'll look for stuff also. [Edited on 06.27.2010 12:21 PM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ApocalypeX What about the AI in ONI?[/quote]You mean Shinamtama. I don't know much about her and I don't think that she's one of the AI's in this whole thing. But it couldn't hurt to look into it.[/quote]I think she was. *opens new tab for search*

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ApocalypeX What about the AI in ONI?[/quote]You mean Shinamtama. I don't know much about her and I don't think that she's one of the AI's in this whole thing. But it couldn't hurt to look into it.

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  • 0
    Hory Crap. Good read. Very nice work. That stuff between my ears hurts a bit.

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  • What about the AI in ONI?

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