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8/29/2009 8:26:26 PM
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Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection. Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners. Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy? First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this - Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed. Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!" But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners. Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost. In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this. [quote][i]The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. [b]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries[/b]. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it. [/i][/quote] Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe? I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners. However, what if the Precursors had [i]not[/i] been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity. I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors. In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact. [quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know. [/quote] Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of [i]them[/i]. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors? It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion. [quote][/quote] [b]Update 1.2[/b] (I had this all neatly typed up, but it got deleted by a posting error. So forgive me if some of this update doesn't make sense, it's late at night and I'm kind of tired.) Reach is situated within the Epsilon Eridani system, a mere 10.5 lightyears from the Sol System, and it's closest neighbouring system. Now, let's go with the idea that Earth was in fact, the Precursor homeworld. Once they had achieved space exploration level, it's likely the first system they would have discovered is the Epsilon Eridani system. The Precursors would have also discovered Reach, and probably inhabited it. Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners. Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had? I'm not just thinking up random ideas as I go along though. What I find unlikely is that the Forerunners would have discovered Reach, but a few light years away from Earth, and have the time to construct caverns and house a ridiculously advanced crystal within, yet not discover Earth and humanity until a short time before activating Halo. Why would they waste time constructing such a complex when they were faced with extinction? My opinion is that the Precursors built it. Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. Genetic instincts perhaps, from humanity's Precursor ancestors? Simply becoming Reclaimers of the Forerunners wouldn't give humanity instinctive knowledge of how their technology works. And if the Forerunners based all their technology off of the Precursors relics they had discovered, it would explain why the Master Chief sub conciously could activate the various devices upon Halo. And, running along with this idea that Reach had been colonised by the Precursors, what if every UNSC Colony world which had mysterious 'Forerunner artefacts' were in fact, also Precursor? Perhaps humanity was merely following in their Precursors ancestors ancient footsteps, as they themselves first ventured into the Galactic beyond. [b]Update 2.0[/b] Oh Lord, this is all too perfect. The first Halo Legends episode, [i]The Babysitter[/i] was released, and it speaks volumes for this theory. The ODSTs have a mission alongside a Spartan to assassinate a Prophet at some unknown alien ruins. Cortez, the ODST squad leader, at some point in the mission briefing says: [quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote] As I was watching this I nodded along and thought, 'Forerunner'. That's what it pointed to right? Perhaps not. Later on when we actually see these ruins, they sure look confusing. It actually looks more like human ancient Japanese design than Forerunner. Naturally, everyone is complaining about it, saying it isn't Forerunner. And perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it is Precursor. Now let's say, back in the day, the Precursors built some structures like that, with that design. They colonise the planet their human descendants (Remember the greater theory) walk upon hundreds of thousands of years later. And they build these ruins. Now what if, in the Haloverse, Japanese building designs were inspired by ancient Precursor blueprints that the ancient Japanese discovered? What if those ruins on the planet in [i]The Babysitter[/i] are in fact meant to look like they do? Not Forerunner ruins, but Precursor. Also, the statues inside the ruins show what seem to be animals usually found on Earth. And who do we theorise do originate from Earth? That's right, the Precursors. If the Forerunners had built the ruins, then surely they would have images of their Gods, not animals. [b]In other words: [/b] - Precursors colonise planet, build ruins we see in [i]The Babysitter.[/i] - Precursors then become humanity after catastrophic event. - Halo is fired by Forerunners. - Precursor remnants (humans) repopulate Earth. - Ancient Japanese discover incredibly old Precursor building blueprints, design their buildings in the same way. - ODST squad and Spartan in [i]The Babysitter[/i] discover these ancient ruins, Halo fans cry out "But they're not Forerunner!" - Because they aren't. They're Precursor. [b]Last minute input: [/b][url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18391672&postcount=243]Oh my God, Frankie just practically confirmed this section of the theory![/url] [Edited on 11.07.2009 3:54 PM PST]

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  • *Head asplodes*

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  • Asplodes from wisdom or fail? I personally hope the former.

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  • Good point about the " Reclaimer" thing, I never really thought about it like that before. But wouldn't Guilty Spark have said " You are [i] precursor [/i]" and the end of halo?

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  • Spark was rampant. And even before then he was confused. In Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who had activated the ring the first time around. And he admitted himself he knew nothing more about Forerunner culture than what he needed to know to run Installation 04.

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  • Honestly I'm not sure, it's a good theory but it's still just based of a different interpretation of the word Reclaimer. If the Forerunners had adopted humanity and then gave them their technology to continue their legacy, then when Humanity finds it they are Reclaiming what once was. ] It's an interstin point that they chose Humanity though, apart from the fact it would be weird playing as a human, it does suggest a certain special trait to sway their decision. In fact running from this point is the fact they discover this treasure, meaning they knew what they were looking for, although this could be as simple as sentinent beings. But then what about the research? I don't know, it's not a solid theory but it is a good idea

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  • It is for sure unique. But how about in ghost of Onyx? [quote] That which must be protected... behind the sharpened edge of the shield... beyond the reach of the swords.... for the reclaimers.[/quote] I always assumed that reclaimers were those who would reclaim what the forerunner lost. But it makes sense that way too. I had similar ideas on this matter. Also this fits with my theory as well. The Iris star chart points to a precursor artifact. If we assume that is what must be protected for the reclaimers then it adds a new twist to my theory. We must reclaim what is rightfully ours. The only way to truly finish the fight (please see Halo 4 in plain sight). It makes a great deal of sense. And Eden in the bible is where mankind started. The pure fact Earth is called eden has an obvious significant meaning. I am putting a link to this in my thread. *Winks at wolverfrog*

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  • I can definitely see the validity this theory holds, however i have reservations about saying that the precursors "devolved" into humanity. such advanced races don't simply fade out, there's some sort of event that either kills them or forces them to leave. In the Precursors case, it might have been a flood outbreak, they might have simply moved into a different dimension (because from what little we know of them, they were even more advanced at traversing the dimensions than the forerunners were, so this may have been a trivial matter). I highly doubt they all just devolved into humanity though.

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  • Heres my tweaked version of this theory. As well as what I think happened The Precursor in there infinite knowledge and power became ignorant and un-wise. They raced towards the future in scientific innovations. So fast that if they stopped for a moment to think of the implications of a technology another would beat them to it. There world spinned out of control. Not a single individual could keep up in the progress. They spanned across the stars as well as made advancements at the cellular level and beyond. Then some how in a strive to create the perfect organism they began mutating a species. Accelerating its evolution until what they created could no longer be of this universe. Many would have embraced the creature, seeing it as the final stage of evolution. In there arrogance they where consumed. The thing spread in such speed that none could fight it. Scores of worlds fell to the monstrosity, and countless more embraced it as a desired thing. Those few left who refused to be consumed fled. Others attempted to fight it but the odds where immeasurable. Many fled to distant worlds. Isolating themselves so they could never be found. Like a great forest fire the flood soon lost all source of fuel and its presence in this universe quickly diminished. Only isolated pockets of the beast remained. Survivors of different species that where part of the once great empire where now few and scattered through the vast reach of space. Of these there where even fewer true precursor left among the stars. Yet progress could not be halted. These species continued to evolve and create technology. Some far more rapidly than others. One of these species stumbled upon precursor technology, which they studied and used to make there own. They latter claimed there god given right to rule all within there reach. Until they stumbled upon the beast.... I suggest you read about the terminals and forerunner in Halowiki Wolverfrog. You may find supporting evidence. I can already name some off the top of my head. [quote] Child of my enemy why have you come? I offer no forgiveness. A fathers sins pass to his Son.[/quote] Thats the Gravemind. His enemy and Humanity's father could be the precursors.

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  • halowiki, despite being highly accurate, has a tendency to include some speculation in their articles (check out MB's entry), thus, like the regular wikipedia, despite being a great resource it has it's flaws. double check what you find with the actual sources.

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  • Agustus, I have one problem with your theory: how did the forerunners find a way to defeat the flood and the pecursors (who were far more advanced) couldn't? Wolverfrog, good theory (except the part about the de-evolution of the precursors). [Edited on 08.29.2009 7:28 PM PDT]

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  • Wolvenfrog, how you are not a Mythic Member amazes me. This theory also explains one thing that is never explained, the absense of Precurso artifacts.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] P3P5I Agustus, I have one problem with your theory: how did the forerunners find a way to defeat the flood and the pecursors (who were far more advanced) couldn't? .[/quote] Then how did humanity defeat the flood, despite the forerunners not being able to?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude Wolvenfrog, how you are not a Mythic Member amazes me.[/quote] What about me? I made a pretty cool theory, shouldn't I be a Mythic Member too? Because, of course, a single thread regulates title status. >.> Anyhow, because I can't shut up about the Precursor making the Flood and all being killed, part of my theory suggests that the Forerunner are distant cousins of the Precursor, having fled their Empire before it collapsed under the disastrous creation of the Flood. If this possibility is actually true and the Precursor that fled their empire re-named themselves the Forerunner in the Milky Way, the Precursor and the Forerunner would actually be relatives. But what if humanity still descended from the Precursor? If a scrap of the Forerunner were lost and crashed on Earth in the early days of their transfer to the Milky Way, or if a Precursor ship was damaged and crashed on Earth while trying to escape the Flood, the humans could be an additional off-bred race of the Precursor/Forerunner. If they were more ancient than the Forerunner, like if they were preserved in cryo stasis and were closer to the Precursor original than the Forerunner were, that could be why the Forerunner believed we could reveal information about their past to them. Perhaps information about the Flood, as well. In my mind, Precursor seems to mean, "those who exist before," and Forerunner seems to mean, "those who [i]come[/i] before." If that is correct, the Forerunner named themselves such because they knew they would be followed by the Flood, the creation of their distant cousins. What would such a race do to get their hands on the offspring of such an empire, the survivors of a cataclysm that claimed the rest of their race? In a way, it all makes more sense. Humans are called Reclaimers because they are reclaiming both the empire of the Precursor and the empire of the Forerunner, both closely related to them (by species terms). It's kind of like a family tree; branches die out, but one branch is always left alive. Humanity is the last living branch on the tree, but we were destined to take back up the mantle and the empire left behind by our two overbearing uncles.

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  • "take to much time to thing this bull up" sounds cool

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] P3P5I Agustus, I have one problem with your theory: how did the forerunners find a way to defeat the flood and the pecursors (who were far more advanced) couldn't? .[/quote] Then how did humanity defeat the flood, despite the forerunners not being able to?[/quote] I'm assuming you're talking about the Arc, in which case humanity used forerunner technology. The forerunners did defeat the flood, they just stupidly kept samples for testing.

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  • I've slightly updated the OP, and I'll do so more later on.

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  • i am afraid that even though this is a well thought out and put together therory it does not convince me either way. i am not sure weather humans are decendants of forerunners or of persucutor or of neithor. what if both races were the same? just got split down the middle by the flood and one half got known as the forerunners and the other as the persucutors. about the part "the forerunners could have modified the technology to fire the rings." If the modified it then the humans (if they were persucutors) wouldn't be able to use it, cause it was modified for the forerunners. Also how could the forerunners beat the flood, when the persucutors who were far more advanced couldn't? i'm sorry though the part that seems unlikely, the unevolving part i actually agree with. The same thing happened to the brutes, they got up to the level of space technology and they had a planatary war which bought them down back to the stone age. that is the only civilization to do that twice. But still i agree with you on that part.

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  • Maybe spark wasn't rampant. bear in mind that there are theories flying around about Chief and time travel. after H3 legendary ending, he gets chucked back in time, fights some more flood, then activates the rings for the first time. ^made up off the top of my head^

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  • [quote] Child of my enemy why have you come? I offer no forgiveness. A fathers sins pass to his Son.[/quote] Wait.........I just realized something, what sin did the Forerunners commit? If Humanity is actually the Precursors, and the Precursors created the Flood, that could very well mean that the sin the Gravemind mentions is playing god.

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  • As you said previously, Wolver: You believe the Didact fired Installation 04 first. Spark would recognise John as that of Forerunner/Precursor lineage and take into account what the Didact asked him. ("If it was my choice, would I do it?") So I wouldn't pass off Spark's reactions with confusion. However, I've given this a great deal of thought and I find it pretty damn likely. The Precursors had the ability to create worlds and accelerate the evolution of life. * I find it very likely that the Precursors would want a final legacy of themselves by creating their own race that hasn't been subject to the acceleration of their own evolution if they were indeed in the position of fading away. But then, what can be seen differently from Forerunner and Precursor. Since the Forerunners held the Mantle of the Precursors and passed it down to Humanity, the failure to recognise any Precursor DNA (or whatever) in John must mean the traces of the Mantle are fading. Also, there must have been a race before the Precursors, and a race before that and so on. I guess we'll never be sure 100%, that's good, actually. Because once you know all, what is there to strive for? This is a mystery that will haunt us in the Halo universe for a long time to come... * About the Precursors creating the Halo Rings. I don't believe that: [quote]"Oracle. What is Halo's purpose?" "Weapons of last resort, created by the Forerunners to eliminate potential Flood hosts." ~ Thel 'Vadam to 343 Guilty Spark in Halo 2[/quote] * [quote]Child of my enemy why have you come? I offer no forgiveness. A fathers sins pass to his Son.[/quote] This probably refers to one of two things: > Snakie's theory about the Precursors creating the Flood. > Humanity being related directly from the Forerunners. The 300 year long war between the Forerunners and the Flood, the Didact lighting the Rings and starving the Flood for countless years so they slowly die. And John about to repeat that action by the phrase from the Iris Campaign titled: [i]"History Circling Back Upon Us"[/i] * But what is [i]very[/i] convincing is your quote from the Librarian. [quote]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries. ~ Librarian[/quote] She charged herself with cataloguing every species she could to protect them against the Flood and trapped herself on Earth, or as she calls it "Eden". Also: [quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know.[/quote] We know the Didact sought out the Precursors as he stated he wished to "follow in Their footsteps". Where this lead him, we don't know. He disappeared after the activation of the Rings, dead or alive, it is a mystery. When the Librarian was constructing the Portal on Earth, she was watched by a Tribesman called N'chala who wrote down everything he saw on rocks. Ancient Glyphs and drawings of Sentinels. She goes on to say that she built a garden and whenever a seed falls, a tree sprouts or a flower blooms. These days, that can take years to happen so this "growth acceleration" must play a part from the Precursors. [Edited on 08.30.2009 9:36 AM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Asplodes from wisdom or fail? I personally hope the former.[/quote] *Head asplodes from infomation overload*

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  • AJ is right, I don't even know why I edited that part about Halo in. Randomness? [i]Edited for fail spelling of 'right'[/i] [Edited on 08.30.2009 9:40 AM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Telec Maybe spark wasn't rampant. bear in mind that there are theories flying around about Chief and time travel. after H3 legendary ending, he gets chucked back in time, fights some more flood, then activates the rings for the first time. ^made up off the top of my head^[/quote] BS! I was one of the first to come up with that I believe. About how the forerunner defeated the flood, the answer is very simple. They didn't. If you read Halo 4, in plain sight, it may clarify somethings for you. If the flood is not of this galaxy then more might be coming. Also the forerunner didn't winningly let themselves be consumed. They enacted a type of cole protocol as well, to stop its advance. Just 1 planet with intact ships and other archives would mark the beginning of the downfall of the entire Precursor race. Also about Sparks, I think humanity could in-fact be forerunner as well. A few of them may have cross breed (naturally, or artificially it doesn't matter). Both species having a similar genetic make up would no doubt have made this easier. Also we know forerunner are indeed very human like in emotions and perhaps body shape.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Agustus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Telec Maybe spark wasn't rampant. bear in mind that there are theories flying around about Chief and time travel. after H3 legendary ending, he gets chucked back in time, fights some more flood, then activates the rings for the first time. ^made up off the top of my head^[/quote] BS! I was one of the first to come up with that I believe. About how the forerunner defeated the flood, the answer is very simple. They didn't. If you read Halo 4, in plain sight, it may clarify somethings for you. If the flood is not of this galaxy then more might be coming. Also the forerunner didn't winningly let themselves be consumed. They enacted a type of cole protocol as well, to stop its advance. Just 1 planet with intact ships and other archives would mark the beginning of the downfall of the entire Precursor race. Also about Sparks, I think humanity could in-fact be forerunner as well. A few of them may have cross breed (naturally, or artificially it doesn't matter). Both species having a similar genetic make up would no doubt have made this easier. Also we know forerunner are indeed very human like in emotions and perhaps body shape. [/quote] No we don't. None of that has been confirmed or even clarified, it is only a theory. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog AJ is write, I don't even know why I edited that part about Halo in. Randomness?[/quote] lulz [Edited on 08.30.2009 9:38 AM PDT]

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  • Actually Alex, there is an image in the Terminals showing what seems to be a suit of body armour, with a humanoid figure in the centre.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Actually Alex, there is an image in the Terminals showing what seems to be a suit of body armour, with a humanoid figure in the centre.[/quote] "What appears to be", it may seem like one thing but Bungie being Bungie and Halo being Halo, it is probably something different. Link that pic to the OP.

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