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6/16/2005 7:26:23 AM
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I dicovered a problem with the time travel method in Back to the Future!!!!

in back to the future, ya know when the car has to go 60mph in order to go into a future dimension. ok, that makes sense, but what i don't understand is how the car can still be going 60mph when it reaches the other dimension. theoretically, the car should be at 0mph once it enters the future world, so it would just do a massive burnout instead of truckin along at 60mph. these are the thoughts that keep me up at night.
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  • You only found 'one' problem?

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  • its called sarcasm, if we still had colored text i would have followed the teal=sarcasm rule for people with broken sarcasm detectors.

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  • I thought the car had to go 88mph for it to time travel. Maybe I was wrong.

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  • i don't really know what the exact speed is, so you could be correct. the point is that the car is moving fast in the present dimension, not the future one. so in order for the car to be going top speed in the future it would have to start at 0mph again after it makes the jump.

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  • ok i could try and explain it. first off when it makes the jump in time it would be like changing the backdrop. and 2 changin the backdrop wouldnt be like hitting a brick wall. think of it this way, your playin halow and you go through a teleporter. you dont stop, you just keep going as if you go through a door.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninja de fuego ok i could try and explain it. first off when it makes the jump in time it would be like changing the backdrop. and 2 changin the backdrop wouldnt be like hitting a brick wall. think of it this way, your playin halow and you go through a teleporter. you dont stop, you just keep going as if you go through a door.[/quote] your "backdrop theory" has holes all over it. the two "backdrops" exist in two different dimensions. now see that the two dimensions have seperate laws of physics. then you might begin to understand that when the car crosses from one plain, to another, then the previous physics of the car is void because there is no asphault inside a wormhole that takes you from one dimension to another. so the car literally stops, while inside of the wormhole, and would be spit out perfectly still on the other side. if doc was mashin on the gas still, then he would burn out the tires and have to start from 0mph and it is 88mph, i was wrong bout that [Edited on 6/16/2005]

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  • So, when the car moves it moves in the 4th dimension right?

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  • no, it moves into a wormhole, which is between dimensions. the fourth dimension is time as a whole.

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  • i can see the point you are trying to make, but it is inherently flawed. the following has not been adjusted for time travel. timetravel in itself breaks many laws of physics. firstly: THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF MOMENTUM. In a system with no net outside forces acting on it, momentum is conserved. Unless time travel somehow slows the car down by imparting a force to it, it must keep the same momentum before time travel as after time travel. This means it has the same "velocity" after time travel as it did before time travel. The velocity of an object is a property of it that it possesses at any one time. If you took an object from where it is and moved it instantly to another place (or time), all properties should stay the same, including velocity. This would especially apply to wormhole time travel, which I assume is used my the Doc's car. secondly: THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF ENERGY. If the car enters the time travel vortex or whatever you want to believe, it has a certain kinetic energy. Quite a bit actually. This cannot simply disappear. It must be transfered to something else, which it doesn't seem to, or stay as it is. thirdly: LACK OF OBSERVATION. The scientific method requires observation. Have you ever seen a car stop after time travel? No? What are you basing your "theory" on? fourthly: OCHAM'S RAZOR. If a car is shown to keep it's speed after time travel, it does. Anything else just makes it more complicated. The simplest solution is usually the best. Ordinary (gradual not instantaneous like the doc's car) time travel and spatial travel are directly linked via Einstein's General Relativity. If a time traveller in such a case can only slow down (in time) relative to an observer outside his frame of reference as he increses his speed to c. At c (hypothetically) all his energy is being used to travel through space, and none is used to travel through time, thus he would be effectively frozen. If one were to go faster than c, it could be possible to go backward in time, but of course this is impossible. Without a time frame to increase one's speed in, one cannot accelerate past c. As someone stated before, finding just one fault in the movie is hardly believable. Apart from the NUMEROUS UTTERLY STUPID paradoxes that spring forth, some things just don't make any sense. Like newspapers changing. SLOWLY. Actually most of the paradoxes can be solved by the mulitple universes theory that is introduced by the Doc in either the 3rd or the 2nd movie. In such a reality it is indeed possible to kill your own grandmother before you were born. The universe that you are now in does not contain you getting born, but you come from a different one where all is well. However, Back to the Future does a poor job at implementing this concept, making most of the movie gibberish to someone with a hlafway decent knowledge of astrophysics and philosophy. I would like to also make a point on your "BACON CURES CANCER and AIDS! " comment. Excessive red beat consumption has been shown to actually increase the chance of bowel cancer. Also, excessive meat and fat consumption would lead to an imbalanced diet, which lowers the immune system and in no way helps cure anything.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CacaKing [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninja de fuego ok i could try and explain it. first off when it makes the jump in time it would be like changing the backdrop. and 2 changin the backdrop wouldnt be like hitting a brick wall. think of it this way, your playin halow and you go through a teleporter. you dont stop, you just keep going as if you go through a door.[/quote] your "backdrop theory" has holes all over it. the two "backdrops" exist in two different dimensions. now see that the two dimensions have seperate laws of physics. then you might begin to understand that when the car crosses from one plain, to another, then the previous physics of the car is void because there is no asphault inside a wormhole that takes you from one dimension to another. so the car literally stops, while inside of the wormhole, and would be spit out perfectly still on the other side. if doc was mashin on the gas still, then he would burn out the tires and have to start from 0mph and it is 88mph, i was wrong bout that[/quote] ah, but if you take an object and freeze it in time and take it somewhere else it still possesses the same kinetic energy as before. velocity is a property of the car which is always present. no matter if it is "frozen" or not. and it isn't frozen in time in the first place. it goes through a wormhole. imagine a wormhole in space. throw a rock into it. it comes out somewhere else, same time. it should still be moving yes? same thing with time. time is no different from space in these things.

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  • ok, well nobody knows if the rock will be moving, or lose its velocity on the other side. you say its moving, i say its not. we can agree to disagree.

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  • It must not have been a problem if it worked fine for them.

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  • and another thing... its just a movie.

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  • well a wormhole is just a shortcut through the fabric of space-time from one place to another. it can be from the past to the future, or between two places in space. you'd be effectively still travelling forward even while going through the wormhole. it's the equivalent of folding a sheet of paper and drawing a line from one point to another when normally the line would need to be much longer. you still keep your pen moving, even though you take a different path. I think that you are thinking of wormholes as sometimes portrayed by science fiction and not current theoretical physics wormholes.

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  • the below laws apply to physics in the known universe, if you take an object out of the known universe, who knows what will happen to it. i think it is safe to say that the physics inside of a wormhole are quite different. when inside this "buffer zone" all memory of the object is lost because the wormhole is not really inside the universe, but outside the universe. when it re-enters the universe the object would have to start from point one, thats just my theory anyway. and i don't have any way to prove it, its really just an idea. wormholes probably don't even exist. we are not talking about space here, there are likely many forces on an object inside of a wormhole (such as friction) that would bring the car to a stop because it has no method of propulsion. so conservation of momentum and enegy don't apply. firstly: THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF MOMENTUM. In a system with no net outside forces acting on it, momentum is conserved. Unless time travel somehow slows the car down by imparting a force to it, it must keep the same momentum before time travel as after time travel. This means it has the same "velocity" after time travel as it did before time travel. The velocity of an object is a property of it that it possesses at any one time. If you took an object from where it is and moved it instantly to another place (or time), all properties should stay the same, including velocity. This would especially apply to wormhole time travel, which I assume is used my the Doc's car. secondly: THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF ENERGY. If the car enters the time travel vortex or whatever you want to believe, it has a certain kinetic energy. Quite a bit actually. This cannot simply disappear. It must be transfered to something else, which it doesn't seem to, or stay as it is.

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  • What makes peope think that time is preserved in a way we can 'go back' to it anyway? In the first episode. I've always thought, that when marty sees himself using the car to escape from libyans the marty in the car should be able to see himself on the banking. This would in turn mean that we have no control over our lives and that everything just plays out. Not to mention any time travel into the past would inevitably cause an endless loop. If say you went back and saw yourself, you would endlessly do the same thing. This shows that the future exists now, and is shaped as the present world changes. (yes I love BTTF, Great Film)

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  • sure, but in this conversation we have already made the concession that time travel is a reality, just for hypothetical reasons. you make a good point though.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CacaKing the below laws apply to physics in the known universe, if you take an object out of the known universe, who knows what will happen to it. i think it is safe to say that the physics inside of a wormhole are quite different. when inside this "buffer zone" all memory of the object is lost because the wormhole is not really inside the universe, but outside the universe. when it re-enters the universe the object would have to start from point one, thats just my theory anyway. and i don't have any way to prove it, its really just an idea. wormholes probably don't even exist. we are not talking about space here, there are likely many forces on an object inside of a wormhole (such as friction) that would bring the car to a stop because it has no method of propulsion. so conservation of momentum and enegy don't apply. [/quote] dude, do you even know what a wormhole is? seriously, how old are you? read... "how to build a time machine" by Paul Davies, that explains everything nicely. and it's a nice read.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Liu Xuande What makes peope think that time is preserved in a way we can 'go back' to it anyway? In the first episode. I've always thought, that when marty sees himself using the car to escape from libyans the marty in the car should be able to see himself on the banking. This would in turn mean that we have no control over our lives and that everything just plays out. Not to mention any time travel into the past would inevitably cause an endless loop. If say you went back and saw yourself, you would endlessly do the same thing. This shows that the future exists now, and is shaped as the present world changes. (yes I love BTTF, Great Film)[/quote] i think we are only thinking about "instant" forward time travel via wormholes here. free will has always been a problem with time machine theories though. actually i think einstein realised the potential his theories had on free will and said some nice things to cover himself up... can't think of any off the top of my head. traditionally people don't like free will, but from a causality standpoint it doesn't really exist at all(unless you believe there is something on a quantum level affecting our decisions, which is unlikely).

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  • none of it is real though. who is to say that a wormhole acts a certain way when they have no proof. i think that my theory could be just as feasable as your paul davies.

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  • If you want to move through space time, then accelaration is not the answer. Yeah, you can go pretty fast, but not forwards in time as time slows down at high speeds (meaning light speed). The wormhole would have to be created by mass. A large star gains enough mass to puncture space, thus creating a balck hole, a hole to another dimension. 88mph in four dimensions (lengh, width and depth plus time) would not. But i'm sure after the film was released enough people went to 88mph to see if they could time travel. The simpletons never fail to amuse.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mephistopholes But i'm sure after the film was released enough people went to 88mph to see if they could time travel. The simpletons never fail to amuse.[/quote] Well, you need the flux capacitor...

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dmbfan09 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mephistopholes But i'm sure after the film was released enough people went to 88mph to see if they could time travel. The simpletons never fail to amuse.[/quote] Well, you need the flux capacitor...[/quote] he's right

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CacaKing its called sarcasm, if we still had colored text i would have followed the teal=sarcasm rule for people with broken sarcasm detectors.[/quote] Yes, like yours silly.

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  • Omg... talk about crappy threads today... Tristan ;-)

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  • I thought that time travel in a Delorean was rather plausible but using trash as a fuel source, how gullible do you think I am?

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