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4/2/2009 5:17:14 AM
240
Are the moderators more tolerant of the misbehavior of highly ranked member
So, i have recently come out of hiding. Mainly, due to boredom. I have not posted terribly much. However, a friend of mine mentioned me today that I should be banned because he thinks that all of my posts since my re-emergence border on spam. However, he thinks that the reason I have [i]not[/i] been banned is because of my Mythic status.
Now, as I've not come to the forums for quite a long time(to me), I have no idea if this seems to be a plausible, prevalent phenomenon.
What do you think?
EDIT: argh! accursed character limit in the title bar!
[Edited on 04.01.2009 9:20 PM PDT]
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I cried like a little -blam!- when Foman banned me for calling someone fail, or whatever the hell it was. But not because it changed my member title, but because of how stupid of a thing it was to be banned over. I'm not insulting Foman here, there are rules, I broke them, I deserved what I got. A warning as opposed to a ban would have been nice, but whatever. What I mean by what a stupid thing it was to be banned for is, how stupid it was on my part. I could have contributed to the thread in an articulate manner, I knew that I should have, and I knew that simply saying you're full of fail was wrong, but I did it anyway. That's what's stupid. I've been trolling here for years, never bothered to register, then I finally do and barely make it more than a year before I get a ban. Had I been a mythic member I probably would have thought twice. So even if some leeway is given, I think it's perfectly acceptable. Supposedly with age comes wisdom right? I'm so rambling here, I'll go now before this gets any more incoherant and I get another ban for spam.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kilroy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Exalted Mythic [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kilroy my Mythic status.[/quote] [url=http://i40.tinypic.com/jj6000.jpg][b]Sorry, brah[/b].[/url][/quote] You're a moron.[/quote] OMG he got banned cause he was just a member!
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cryptic [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x Foman123 x However, I thought that the trust rating was implemented for the purposes of eventually implementing something like the member titles on the public forums? Wouldn't this completely negate the purpose of having trust ratings at all? I like the idea of being able to have a (very) rough idea at a glance of how much Bungie.net "trusts" a user, and I like the concept that trust ratings have noticeably encouraged some users to behave better on these forums. As my PM box can attest, users [i]do[/i] care about member titles, and they know that warnings and bans can hurt them.[/quote]I believe Achronos was trying to say that he didn't want users to think of their title and title bar color as a rank, but rather just a label. The problem is that because administrators have a yellow bar and moderators have an orange bar, members think of title bar colors as a hierarchy. If he could tweak the system and then give us more insight about what prefixes relate to after the update, we could use them as a rough idea to see how much Bungie.net "trusts" a user. I assume join date is one of the major factors of the trust system so making the title bar color based solely off of that would probably not affect the one we have right now. Replacing the "base" part of the title with labels you could unlock would be very beneficial for the reasons already stated.[/quote]I totally agree, but I think that because people see our "labels" as ranks it gives them more of an incentive to behave. I'm going to sound evil, but.... Let them stay ignorant so they behave. :P
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] destroys u How often do you people get banned? Really, I think that as long as you don't do anything stupid, you should be fine.[/quote]^What he said. Don't be stupid, stupid.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x Foman123 x However, I thought that the trust rating was implemented for the purposes of eventually implementing something like the member titles on the public forums? Wouldn't this completely negate the purpose of having trust ratings at all? I like the idea of being able to have a (very) rough idea at a glance of how much Bungie.net "trusts" a user, and I like the concept that trust ratings have noticeably encouraged some users to behave better on these forums. As my PM box can attest, users [i]do[/i] care about member titles, and they know that warnings and bans can hurt them.[/quote]I believe Achronos was trying to say that he didn't want users to think of their title and title bar color as a rank, but rather just a label. The problem is that because administrators have a yellow bar and moderators have an orange bar, members think of title bar colors as a hierarchy. If he could tweak the system and then give us more insight about what prefixes relate to after the update, we could use them as a rough idea to see how much Bungie.net "trusts" a user. I assume join date is one of the major factors of the trust system so making the title bar color based solely off of that would probably not affect the one we have right now. Replacing the "base" part of the title with labels you could unlock would be very beneficial for the reasons already stated. [Edited on 04.02.2009 8:14 PM PDT]
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How often do you people get banned? Really, I think that as long as you don't do anything stupid, you should be fine.
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Something I wish could be implemented would be earning trust based on activity without actually posting. I'm on here a lot reading the forums, but I don't actually post that much. I can see that this would be abused though, so maybe it's not such a good idea.
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so it begins...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Slayer I only ban blue bars. I'm coming for you next, Skib.[/quote]Oh you wouldn't... I like the member titles. They allowed me to assemble a fun group of members and provide some nice variety on the forums.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] radical00edward I think that the higher ranked members would be tolerated a little more than a normal member because they have obviously been doing something right in their bungie career on the forums to get a high rank. I expect they would probably get more warnings before a ban than a normal member would.[/quote] To play devils advocate, shouldn't it be the other way around? They have been here longer, therefore they should know the rules better. A newer member has an excuse for slipping up, they just don't know better yet. So if anybody flirts with the line of repercussion shouldn't those with titles be held to a higher standard? Again, playing devils advocate.
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I think that the higher ranked members would be tolerated a little more than a normal member because they have obviously been doing something right in their bungie career on the forums to get a high rank. I expect they would probably get more warnings before a ban than a normal member would.
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Well I can say that I like the way the trust system works I was once Heroic then became Legendary then I was Honorable Legendary member and just yesterday I somehow became a Mythic member but all in all I'm still the same person I always was and that won't change!
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MikeNeel To me, the current system may not necessarily be flawed, but [u][b]it does seem to bring up more problems then it does solve[/b][/u][/quote]Indeed. Invisible status would work nicely I think. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Canada Dry L If you were a Mythic member and you got banned for a week or two would you lose your rank and restart as a normal member again?[/quote]You can count on that. I know from experience, although your ban can be as short as 3 days. [Edited on 04.02.2009 5:16 PM PDT]
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Can you guys try and make your points a bit more concise? This is getting to be a bit too much of a read. Also, being concise makes you look pretty wise. Sometimes I suspect Foman likes to hide behind those long posts...show yourself, you are a mere mortal, aren't you!? Anyhoo. I wouldn't mind if the titles became associated with in-game play like Achronos is suggesting. Though, either way, I'm quite happy. I think the forum ban methods at the moment incorporate a nice blend of trust according to member title as well as moderator knowledge of the forums. I say this, because if the mods relied entirely on member titles in the dealing of their bans, I'd be pretty f*****. I liked Pezz's definition of banning according to whether or not the loss of this person would help/harm the community. To go a bit off-topic, the mandatory 2 week bans in The Flood swing away from that to some degree, I feel. EDIT: Disregard above. I just became heroic. BAN ALL MEMBERS. [Edited on 04.02.2009 5:16 PM PDT]
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If you were a Mythic member and you got banned for a week or two would you lose your rank and restart as a normal member again?
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I don't know about the Mythic members, but the normals like me, yeah we get banned/warned pretty often :( I like to try to be good, sometimes it just doesn't work out. And I hate myself for it [Edited on 04.02.2009 4:54 PM PDT]
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To be honest, I've seen this discussion played out many many times before. And it usually ends in most people disliking the system since it leads to "elitism" while others like it because they feel it's a good judgement on a person and their "trust rating". However aren't both sides really just arguing the same thing? I dislike it because it gives some people undeserved superiority. Then at the same time, I like it because it lets me know who's a general jerk and or troll or wether or not they're a good person. Both simes just seem to be running in a circular logic. Then there's the whole side of those without any fancy titles who feel overlooked since while they don't break rules, they still haven't had the time to build up their rating. It's an honest argument, generally on larger threads I myself focus on names I recognize and fancy color bar posts. Then you have those guys who feel the need to post and respond to every single little comment just to build post count since it's proven to have an affect. While they don't break the rules, they really don't contribute much. Honestly there's nothing wrong with letting a thread age a little before you respond that way you have more ideas to read and base your thoughts off of, instead of responding to each respons seperately. To me, the current system may not necessarily be flawed, but [u][b]it does seem to bring up more problems then it does solve[/b][/u], at least from the non mod side anyways. I understand how it's a useful tool for the mods to use when deciding on bans/warnings. Perhaps if they kept the current system and made it visible only to moderators, such as a numerical based rating. That said, a replacement would be needed, so why not go with the system you were talking about, Achronos, where you unlock titles and choose the one you prefer.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos It should be noted that if I did change it to a "pick the title you want from the list you've unlocked" I'd probably make sure that a great many of them would be rather obvious as to how you'd "unlock" them. They'd also be participation in nature for the most part. No "is a level 50 in Halo 3", more of "Played X ranked games" or "Played Y social games" or " Played Z custom games". And the elitism you guys seem so fond of whining about wouldn't be there because nobody could tell if you just like a different title or if you don't have a title because you can't unlock it. With a hierarchy, it becomes just a popularity issue, which is easily controlled. I think I'd also make the bar color just indicative of join date, not the trust rating. I don't really want to give you control over that. Eh, maybe, maybe not. Again, thinking out loud. It sure would be funny on release day when everybody's bars change and they revert to member because the old way got removed. The Halo 3 forum would freak out. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan_008 I liked it better when everyone was just a regular member back in 2006. Sure, [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=15804986]I've read all of this[/url], but I don't understand why some members with newer accounts than mine are both higher in base title and prefix title as well. Oh well, maybe I should post longer responses or something.[/quote][/quote]This would be a really interesting way to integrate the forums more with the games, which I remember was a primary push behind possible "big ticket" changes to private groups back in December. However, I thought that the trust rating was implemented for the purposes of eventually implementing something like the member titles on the public forums? Wouldn't this completely negate the purpose of having trust ratings at all? I like the idea of being able to have a (very) rough idea at a glance of how much Bungie.net "trusts" a user, and I like the concept that trust ratings have noticeably encouraged some users to behave better on these forums. As my PM box can attest, users [i]do[/i] care about member titles, and they know that warnings and bans can hurt them. The Bungie.net public forums are one of the primary roosting places, if not [i]the[/i] primary roosting place for the Bungie fan community (although they are also the place where many players who would not consider themselves part of the "community" come to ask a quick question, get news, or arrange custom games). For this reason, I also like the idea that users with high "trust" ratings (or perhaps eventually some other related measure of value to the Bungie Community) receive some kind of recognition. We have had these trust ratings and member titles for a long time now, and the prior concerns from some community members about "elitism" have simply not manifested themselves. MOST people (except newbies) realize that the Titles are not "ranks," and realizing that activity and following the rules, generally, are the best ways to gain a higher title. I think that maintaining a recognition system for users with higher trust ratings (just like member titles, nothing too fancy -- perhaps extra avatar options or something else that a member can attach a small "value" to that incentivizes him or her to stick around and keep following the rules) is still a good idea and should not be completely wiped off the drawing board. With that said, I still think the idea of implementing new and different titles based on integration with Bungie games would be fun and very interactive. Definitely something that it would be cool if you Bungie folks kept thinking about in the back of your heads. I just think that the member titles have already had enough positive effect on the forums to justify maintaining SOME kind of recognition for having a high trust rating on the site. :-) [Edited on 04.02.2009 4:28 PM PDT]
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The trust system is a ranking system, it is a number assigned to you for your behavior. The higher the number, the better the rating or bar. Although it differentiates people it is also provides for a clear ranking system. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos The trust rating already includes elements of game participation. I'm talking about making titles less about rankings and more about just labels. Right now, there is a hierarchy. What if there wasn't really a hierarchy. What if they were just labels that you got? The current idea that I fancy is that they'd be a user setting - there would be a set of titles that you can earn for various things, and then you'd go to your My Settings page and select which one you want to use. The prefix would still be done in the same way it is now, to differentiate a bit more. Not sure what I'd do about the bar colors, maybe they'd be earned too. You guys think of the forum titles as a ranking system, but that's not how I see their purpose. I see it more for differentiating people on the forums, just like avatars. Nothing really planned here, just thinking out loud. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TOM T 117 [quote]I often wonder if it would be better to link it game participation (probably keeping the prefixes, I like those) and just lose the Heroic/Legendary/Mythic. Maybe as we make more games available we could think up some alternate stuff.[/quote]Linking it to game participation is a direction I would not like to see the system take. One immediate issue I can see is people regarding these titles much as they do with the Spartan vs Elite scenario. I think the titles should stay related to forum participation and on site activity rather than off site activity, it just complicates the affair. The current system is trust rating based hence elitism is less likely to spawn (as those with higher trust ratings should know better), I fail to see how this could be controlled on a system based off site without trust ratings still being heavily weighted. I wouldn't mind the removal of bar colours, it makes some posts stand out more than others which, in a community based on equality of members, (we'll ignore the employees for the sake of argument) isn't really ideal so in that sense I wouldn't mind the removal of the heroic/legendary/mythic titles (don't tell Skibur).[/quote][/quote]
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I've noticed it in groups, in fact in the group I run I've done it myself. It just makes sense. If you've been around a while you won't get in trouble since the mods sort of know you. If you're friends with a cop who pulls you over, you won't get a ticket most times. Same basic principle.
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Well, I would say that they are not as quick to ban mythic members as they are to ban regular members or members they don't recognize. But that's because the mythic members have mainly built up a level of trust. I don't see this as a problem at all, it's how the world works.
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IMO no. Why do i say that? Well I was posting in [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=27425474]this[/url] thread and i got banned for "stepping in". How was I "stepping in" I have no idea. I don't see why I couldn't have gotten a warning or something but nope. I got a full on 14 day ban for bull-blam!-. I don't know of many people who get banned for "stepping in". Eveyone except skiptrace got banned which i think is a little unfair. Ever since I lost my Legendary title I don't feel as inclined as I once was to contribute with highly thought-out responses. I have been banned 3-4 times since then and I have come to the conclusion that it's near impossible for me to regain that title. Now, it may be different for the Mythic members but as far as I'm concerned Legendary members are treated like the rest of the community.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] gnome13 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos I often wonder if it would be better to link it game participation (probably keeping the prefixes, I like those) and just lose the Heroic/Legendary/Mythic. Maybe as we make more games available we could think up some alternate stuff. But in the meantime, watching how you guys behave relating to a somewhat arbitrary rating is very intriguing.[/quote]Maybe you could just replace the word "Member" in the title with game related words? As far as Halo goes, you could select to choose between character model used and weapon type used. Lets say I use the battle rifle a lot, my title could be Fabled Mythic Rifleman. Or If I like to show off my player model, I'd be Fabled Mythic Spartan. You could even have it show if you play campaign more than MM. I wouldn't mind being Fabled Mythic Monitor. [/quote]I like this idea. Customizing the type of member that you are, versus the rank, doesn't seem like it would cause any popularity issues.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos I often wonder if it would be better to link it game participation (probably keeping the prefixes, I like those) and just lose the Heroic/Legendary/Mythic. Maybe as we make more games available we could think up some alternate stuff. But in the meantime, watching how you guys behave relating to a somewhat arbitrary rating is very intriguing.[/quote]Maybe you could just replace the word "Member" in the title with game related words? As far as Halo goes, you could select to choose between character model used and weapon type used. Lets say I use the battle rifle a lot, my title could be Fabled Mythic Rifleman. Or If I like to show off my player model, I'd be Fabled Mythic Spartan. You could even have it show if you play campaign more than MM. I wouldn't mind being Fabled Mythic Monitor.
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Yes, at times. If anyone remembers the spam thread spearheaded by both Foman and Zag (it was in fact stickied for a short while, though I can't remember the actual topic), that might be a prime example. I was actually going to suggest the opposite, however. I'm generally a very involved member of the Halo 3 Forum, minus my intermittent and lengthy absences at times, but prior to the new title system, I'd noticed that Heroics and Legendaries seemed to be blacklisted more often than normal Members. As Yoozel said, if you're a higher-ranked member of this community, you probably know how to act, and a renowned member deviating from what is allowable would most likely stick out more than a normal member. Then again, back then there were far fewer Heroics and Legendaries than there were normal Members, so perhaps there was no such selective nature and it just seemed that way.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Eh, maybe, maybe not. Again, thinking out loud. It sure would be funny on release day when everybody's bars change and they revert to member because the old way got removed. The Halo 3 forum would freak out.[/quote]But then you wouldn't know who to give leeway to! Still, the majority of Halo 3 Forum-goers are regular members anyway. =S
