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Edited by Cesarone Da Man:
10/28/2014 2:43:46 AM
110
LAST WORD/THORN CONNECTION THEORY
(Skip first 2 paragraphs for actual important stuff)
Alright you knuckle heads. RNGod knows we feast on the forums about everything we want in Destiny when we aren't playing, so here's something [b][u]TOTALLY DOPE AS BALLS[/u][/b] (I'm not someone who usually uses "dope" but it sounded good here)
After sitting in bed for an hour reading over the grimoire for the thousandth time, I noticed a few things that just might make sense. And with my love for Thorn, that I just can't bring my self to level up cause of its reload and my (and apparently everyone else's) obsession with The Last Word, I started to put together the pieces.
OK-so contrary to the description of Last Word, the weapon originally belonged to Jaren Ward. He showed up in some town during the Dark Age or whatever. (Shits hazy in the grimoire). When he arrived, Dredgen Yor was a child. He shook from his fathers grasp and went up to Jaren. Jaren understood this kid was getting all fanboy and let him hold his gun, which is The Last Word. So Yor knows how it feels and everything.
Fast forward to whenever later in the Dark Age. So Jaren Ward is being, like, roasted about his crimes in this city called Palamon, I believe. Yor is watching again. Jaren Ward is being yelled at by "Magistrate Loken", the mayor, I guess is what you would call him. It says there were [b]9[/b] trained guns on him. (Whole separate thing that could also blow your God-damn mind). Yor thinks about how weightless the gun was. Then Jaren totally Indiana Jones's the Magistrate Loken guy and plants one in his forehead. The 9 guys just kinda leave, it's vague there. It goes on to say that Dredgen Yors life changes from there on, and many lives will end and most importantly, makes a hint that it won't be the last time he deals weapon, and instead is just beginning his involvement. (Pst, this is right where it starts to blow your -
blam!-ing mind)
Now, store all that in the back of your mind. [b]One of the Thorn descriptions goes a little like this-[/b]"a noble man stood, beacon of good hope. He held a rose in his hand. He has dark thoughts though, a sadness deep within him. Slowly the shadows' whisper became a voice, a dark call, offering glories no one could deny. He changed one day, as dusk was devoured by night. The noble man ceased to exist, another man stood in his place. Same meat, bone, but different." So sounds like some guy with a weapon of light was great, but something slowly ate away at him. And something a little minor we might be over analyzing, the whole rose/thorn thing is more of a cleaver way of explaining the weapon. It's thorn now, because we have it and such. Wether it's a twisted Last Word or a whole different weapon, I think the Rose is being taken to literally. There wasn't a weapon named Rose, it said rose because it was a cryptic way of saying the weapon became evil. [b]This part is crazy[/b]- "The first and only of his family. The sole forbearer and last descendant of the name Yor" Ok, SHIT. Our Dredgen Yor kid from the Last Word chronicles is in the Thorn stories. [b]And even better[/b]-"In his first moments as a new being, he looked down at his Rose and realized for the first time that it held no petals: only the jagged purpose of angry Thorns..."
Before I lose my mind on this shit, [b]here's one more thing-[/b]"The legend of Thorn is bound to the rise and fall of Dredgen Yor, a guardian whose name is remembered with disgust and shame."
SO HOLY -blam!-ING SHIT. YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS YOU SILLY BASTARDS. THE LAST WORD IS THORN. IT WAS TWISTED BY THE HIVE. JUST LIKE DREDGEN YORS MIND WAS.
And it leaves us all with one undeniable fact. The hive are responsible for twisting the weapon to darkness...and cursing it with its pitiful reload.
Hope you all enjoyed. Please comment what you think, I spent more time on this than I should have.
Edit: And if anyone has last word and could check the designs on it, anything like a rose on it. B.net doesn't really provide a good look at anyone's.
Edit 2: VitiableSoap pointed this out. Possible link to Dark Tower series? Possibly, a lot of parallels. Great series, and I hate books.
Edit 3: Thanks for all the constructive criticism. Again, it's all theoretical. With the lack of info provided by the grimoire, we can only narrow the story of these weapons to a hand full of theories, each have there own holes in them, including mine. Hope everyone enjoyed!
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I agree, they should buff fusion rifles.
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6 RepliesI am the Speaker, friend of Guardians and agent of the Traveler. Many Guardians come before me and I help them deepen their connection to the Light and delve further into their own gifts of the Traveler. I come before you today to recognize a Guardian stronger and wiser than any I have known. He broke the House of Kell into factions by himself. He single handedly slew Crota’s child. He conquered Gate Lords, forcing them to do his bidding. He was called many things, and not all of them kind. He was a strange man. Some called him Breaker, Crota’s Bane, and Lord Kabr. I called him friend. This is the story of his descent into madness, and the loss of one of the galaxy’s greatest champions… He came to me speaking of a discovery during his travels on Venus. Many Guardians came from there speaking of an odd warping disturbance they felt. Kabr went to investigage, and found Vex there. They were of a variety that he had never seen. He scouted them, marking their movements and learned their purpose. They were guarding something. He came to me in the tower and told me that he would embark on a quest to discover what might be there. He said that he felt that the Traveler spoke to him, and that there was something that only he could do there. So he left. Many a time I think back and remember him standing as his ghost prepared to take him, and I wish that I had stopped him. But I remained silent. I could not interfere with the Traveler’s will. It was months before he came back, a small amount of time given that we live for centuries, but his missions never kept him away for more than a month at a time. Suffice to say that I was relieved to see him. But, when he came back he was not the same. He was battered, covered in grime and blood, and for some reason seemed to be wearing armor fashioned from the body parts of Vex. I was certain that a few of his fingers were missing as well. He told me that there was indeed something on Venus. He said that there was a place where time bent, cold with darkness, near to the point of shattering. His eyes were dead, and though his body was on the Tower, his mind was still there in that dark place. He said that Guardians would have to be sent to destroy this place, but that he must break the darkness and forge the light there first. I must tell you that I wept to see my friend in such a state, but beyond my mask nothing could be seen. I helped him in all ways that I could. I bathed him in the Light of the Traveler to heal him, and gave him a teleporter. He told me that his ghost had been devoured in the darkness, lured by the siren song of an exploding star. I had no idea how he made it back to us without the ghost but I sent him back. It was the last time I saw my friend. I remember his last words to me, as he stood staring into the horizon, seeing things only he could see: “If you hear my voice again I am no longer Kabr”. He told me this, yet I sent him off because I felt that the Traveler wanted this to happen. Of my eons of service to the Travler, it is the one decision I regret. Could not he spare this one soul? His greatest champion battled for him, and yet he sent him off to die.
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1 ReplyCare if I write a fictional back story for the two and post it here? I wrote the speaker thing
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2 RepliesThat literally reads as a homage to Roland and the Dark Tower to me.
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Edited by StarStranger: 3/3/2015 9:30:38 AMAccording to Thorn 2 card, Yor was a guardian. The narrator of the card was not. Thorn is a weapon of sorrow... Crafted from the bones on the moon. Yor was one of the few survivors of the raid to take the moon back (same one that Eris and her team were on to kill Crota, and same one Crota was birthed on the moon.)
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3 RepliesDamn. I never made the connection. But it explains why those are the only two exotic guns with an actual story to go with them in the Grimore. But basically The Last Word was the rose, and then it lost it's je ne sais quoi and now it's Thorn. It lost it's light and turned evil. I dig it.
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The Hive did something to the original model based on Thorn's actual card. [quote]Augmented through dark practices, Thorn was once a hero's weapon. Its jagged frame hints at a sinister truth: a powerful connection to the unutterable sorceries of the Hive[/quote] And in the Arms and Armaments book it was stated that [quote]This image is drawn from the memory of one of the few Awoken who claimed to have held it.[/quote] There's also a few words that seem like location names. Palamon is listed along with Durga. The actual list goes Palamon N. Chan (its cursive i think its Chan or Chau) Velor Breaklands Durga So from that Thorn was wielded by a Awoken Guardian. Its also stated in the description in the book that Thorn is a power to be feared... but "to be feared" is struck out and " [i]a Curse[/i]" is written in. Does this mean that Thorn is actually a stolen Hive weapon? If an awoken did infact steal this weapon, and its ability "Mark of the Devourer" has some connection with it being a cursed weapon, then its reasonable that whoever wields it bound to succumb to the same fate as the previous owner. Driven mad and shamed upon.
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I disagree with this theory. I believe last word and thorn are different weapons wielded by very different people. Jaren ward was the original wielder of last word, and the child who observed him in the cards was shin malphur. Shin was the second owner of last word. When palomon was destroyed, ward led shin and other survivors to safety, but encountered an enemy, possibly Dredgen yor based on the described evil sound of the weapon, who killed ward. Wards ghost then escaped and shin became a guardian and was given last word. At some point, shin then tracked down yor and avenged his masters death with wards catchphrase that he used on magistrate loken. Yor is a different guardian who wielded a weapon called the rose. He was a champion who grew doubtful and gave in to the darkness. He sought out the hive and they modified his weapon and finished his corruption. Originally the rose was still a jagged weapon, but he called it the rose based on the bloom of each shot that resembled rose. However, once he fell to evil, he renamed the weapon based on its jagged frame that was made more jagged by hive sorcery. Also, at some time yor beat thalor, the undefeated titan champion of the crucible, apparently with thorn. He also murdered the titan pahanin, an acqaintence of kabr.
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I looked closely at mine, if you're looking for it, you will see some thin floral designs.
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Illuminati confirmed!!! Eight more Half Lifes also confirmed!!!
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Almost all items are Golden Age items repurposed... The Vault and Crota ships are the same? That's because they were, originally, the same ship until they were taken by those races.
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So I already have the last word? Cool. -blam!- xur.
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1 ReplyBumping to keep it up
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If you guys like this then you'll love my theory on breaking the vault and the secret of the vault. Check out my post and read my theory and of course please leave comments or such, any support is helpful thanks!
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It is connected it says that
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3 RepliesEdited by Summort: 10/27/2014 1:42:58 PM1. Like /u/myhT 1 said, this has been posted before. 2. The little kid we meet in Palomon is Shin Malpur, Dregden Yor was an amazing hunter as well who performed amazingly in the crucible and everyone respected him but he had darkness in him (there you have the noble man turned to darkness). Yor killed Jaren Ward (as well as Pahanin, Kabr's acquaintance). Jaren being Shin's third father (his biological and the adoptive before) inherited The Last Word (from the grimoire of the kid: That was the first time I held "Last Word," but, unfortunately, not the last.), and he hunted down Dredgen Yor (seeking revenge probably) and killed him in Dwindler's Ridge. edit: 3. I still think this is one of the most insteresting stories in the game, shame we need to stop playing to find out about it... And if bungie is reading I'd like to know what happened to Shin!
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I have been seeing alot of people also talking about a connection between TLW and the golden gun (hunter sub-class super) im not sure this makes alot of sense but maybe the gunslinger super gives you TLW for a short period of time (also building on the time travel theory i see floating about the forums) as the gunslinger subclass is the solar damage subclass maybe when they release the void damage subclass for hunter it will further detail TLW and Thorn/rose story line
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8 RepliesThis is what it has come down to. This game has so little content that people are already figuring out these grimore secrets for lore because of the lack of content.
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Love this theory! I took a bit of time to compile some thoughts from the Grimoire, and I didn't take note o this at all. I am loving the history behind the Last Word, and if you have anything to add to my initial thread let me know: http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/73019543/0/0/1
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Really nice connection
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Edited by Deep Winter 7: 10/28/2014 4:07:52 PMThorn is not The Last Word. The last known carrier of The Last Word was Shin Malphur, a renegade hunter who faced-off against Dredgen Yor at Dwindler's Ridge. The flavor text of The Last Word states this. At this time, Yor was likely a Guardian and already had "Rose" (the name of the hand cannon before it became Thorn). On another topic, Xyor the Unwed is a Wizard and all Hive Wizards are female. Xyor is not Yor, not unless the Hive are very progressive and extremely LGBT friendly. In which case, I would retract my statement.
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Edited by Dunggabreath: 10/28/2014 3:54:35 PMfor thorns bounty you have to kill its previous owner which is Xyor the Unwed...X-yor so theres that too. good post, only actual interesting one today I rate : A+
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3 RepliesAfter reading the card fully its more like Jargen Ward owned The Last Word but fell into darkness. Rose can be translated to The Last Word but it never mentions it being actually handed off. So with that I think Jargen Ward became Dredgen Yor, and when finally succumbing to The Darkness, becoming Xyor The Unwed which is why the Thorn is tied into that peticular enemy. Killing him in the strike mission sets free his soul, allowing him to rest peacefully. The Mark of the Devourer represents the despair that eats away at its targets, hence the lingering damage... and its pitiful reload cause your guardian feels bad about inflicting such pain. [quote]And it leaves us all with one undeniable fact. The hive are responsible for twisting the weapon to darkness...and cursing it with its pitiful reload.[/quote] 7/10 made me chuckle.
