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10/24/2014 7:13:09 PM
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No one seems to be getting the point of this post.
I will spell it out for you, the point is this:
1.) The game was advertised to have content which it did not actually have, and NO DISCLAIMER was made to tell us that the content was not going to be in the game. It would be as if a car company showed a car with wings and a jet engine flying in a commercial. You see the commercial, get excited about the car, see the car, see it has wings and a jet engine, but when you buy it, it doesn't actually fly, but no one told you that until after you have spent your money, and when you asked if it was going to fly before you spent your money, no one would give you an answer, but just told you to trust them it will be the best car ever.
2.) And... Here is why. Literally Millions of people pre-ordered the game. In theory, that guarantees Bungie a pre determined, minimal revenue stream in advance, and serves to help them finish the game. They use the money to help pad the budget to finish production. So they get money, in advance for a game they have not finished making. Instead of putting that money towards finishing the game, they spend it on making the DLC, which they can still sell. They are using your own money, to make more money off of you. It is not illegal, but it is dishonest and unethical.
This is why no on should EVER pre-order a game, EVER. NEVER NEVER NEVER pre order a game. In the last five years, I have never found a game to be unavailable or sold out on launch day even though I never pre-order them. With Digital downloading taking over the market place, you will never again have to worry about not being able to get a game on launch day. Thus the only reason to pre order is so you can save maybe an hour or two waiting for the game to download. (Oh and they give you free stuff to entice you to pre order the game... that should be a big red flag to the consumer.) When you pre-order a game, you are telling the producers "here is my money, I don't even care what you are selling to me, I am going to buy it anyway". When a producer hears that, why would they invest any more time or money in the current project when they can move on to the next revenue source? Once a game's pre-orders cover it's development cost, the project is risk free, and paid for. At that point, there is no economic incentive to put any more work into the game. Its paid for. So, they then shut down any further content development and start producing the next revenue earning project. Think about your own jobs, who works past quitting time if you're not going to get paid any extra money? Very few people. And we sit here wondering WHY so much content is missing? Destiny had pre-sold over 700,000 copies even before the alpha testing. Almost $50 million PRE-ALPHA! They made $500,000,000 on launch day alone. Be honest, if you were 1/2 done with a project and you were guaranteed that kind of money no matter how good the end product was, would you honestly give everything you had? If you had 20 widgets, and someone handed you a check for a box of an undisclosed number of widgets, and they have NO ability to get a refund if they are not satisfied with the number included, who in their right mind would sell all 20 in one box?!
Lets say for argument sake, that all the content of the first 2 DLC packs was already developed pre launch (or at least 80%+), what do you do? Finish it at a cost of $5 million dollars and put it in the base game? Or do you pull it out, and sell it separately? You already are guaranteed $500m with or with out it. You can put it in an make no extra money, and then spend another $50m or so to make new DLC, or you can just use what you've already got. Saving you $45m! Lets make another assumption, lets say 1/2 of everyone who bought the game on launch day, will buy the first 2 dlc packs for $39.99. That another $170m or so. Virtually Guaranteed. So the question as a company is this. Do we want a virtually guaranteed $165M (170 sales - 5 in additional development time to finish the redacted game levels) or do we want to sell the base game with more content, and then have to spend an extra $45m in additional DLC development. (170-50) to make a virtually guaranteed $120m. (obviously the numbers are just examples, but no one will disagree that holding back content is cheaper than developing all new content.) Any business person will take the 165 over 120. This is only a real option when the market signals its willingness to buy anything though. Some of you already pre-orders the DLC with the game. Some of you even already bought the DLC in full. Right now the are using that Money to make DLC packs 3 and 4. So the lesson is, NEVER PRE-ORDER, it allows developers to get greedy and play games with our games.
I GUARANTEE that if NO ONE pre-ordered Destiny, the launch version would have contained more content.
SO to the gaming community PLEASE, learn this lesson. NEVER EVER pre-order another game again. You will still get it on launch day, you will still be able to play, but you will keep the gaming mega corporation in check by re-introducing economic risk back into the equation. You will force them to actually earn their money by releasing complete games, and you will hold them accountable to a minimum quality standard.
DON'T BE A SUCKER AND DON'T SELL OUT BY PAYING PRE-LAUNCH.
English
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You make a compelling case for no longer pre-ordering. I may be with you. I rarely do it, but I may now out completely on pre-orders from here on out. The witcher 3 is promising 16 FREE DLC packages. It's frightening if you think about where game development is headed...
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So true
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Things not being as advertised. Hmm? Wait, I remember countless other video games advertising something and not having it in the real game. They have no obligation to add anything worthwhile to the game. Of course, they would get crappy reception and no one would buy their games again.
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No, destiny is not the first, but probably the worst to date in this department
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[quote]No one seems to be getting the point of this post. I will spell it out for you, the point is this: 1.) The game was advertised to have content which it did not actually have, and NO DISCLAIMER was made to tell us that the content was not going to be in the game. It would be as if a car company showed a car with wings and a jet engine flying in a commercial. You see the commercial, get excited about the car, see the car, see it has wings and a jet engine, but when you buy it, it doesn't actually fly, but no one told you that until after you have spent your money, and when you asked if it was going to fly before you spent your money, no one would give you an answer, but just told you to trust them it will be the best car ever. 2.) And... Here is why. Literally Millions of people pre-ordered the game. In theory, that guarantees Bungie a pre determined, minimal revenue stream in advance, and serves to help them finish the game. They use the money to help pad the budget to finish production. So they get money, in advance for a game they have not finished making. Instead of putting that money towards finishing the game, they spend it on making the DLC, which they can still sell. They are using your own money, to make more money off of you. It is not illegal, but it is dishonest and unethical. This is why no on should EVER pre-order a game, EVER. NEVER NEVER NEVER pre order a game. In the last five years, I have never found a game to be unavailable or sold out on launch day even though I never pre-order them. With Digital downloading taking over the market place, you will never again have to worry about not being able to get a game on launch day. Thus the only reason to pre order is so you can save maybe an hour or two waiting for the game to download. (Oh and they give you free stuff to entice you to pre order the game... that should be a big red flag to the consumer.) When you pre-order a game, you are telling the producers "here is my money, I don't even care what you are selling to me, I am going to buy it anyway". When a producer hears that, why would they invest any more time or money in the current project when they can move on to the next revenue source? Once a game's pre-orders cover it's development cost, the project is risk free, and paid for. At that point, there is no economic incentive to put any more work into the game. Its paid for. So, they then shut down any further content development and start producing the next revenue earning project. Think about your own jobs, who works past quitting time if you're not going to get paid any extra money? Very few people. And we sit here wondering WHY so much content is missing? Destiny had pre-sold over 700,000 copies even before the alpha testing. Almost $50 million PRE-ALPHA! They made $500,000,000 on launch day alone. Be honest, if you were 1/2 done with a project and you were guaranteed that kind of money no matter how good the end product was, would you honestly give everything you had? If you had 20 widgets, and someone handed you a check for a box of an undisclosed number of widgets, and they have NO ability to get a refund if they are not satisfied with the number included, who in their right mind would sell all 20 in one box?! Lets say for argument sake, that all the content of the first 2 DLC packs was already developed pre launch (or at least 80%+), what do you do? Finish it at a cost of $5 million dollars and put it in the base game? Or do you pull it out, and sell it separately? You already are guaranteed $500m with or with out it. You can put it in an make no extra money, and then spend another $50m or so to make new DLC, or you can just use what you've already got. Saving you $45m! Lets make another assumption, lets say 1/2 of everyone who bought the game on launch day, will buy the first 2 dlc packs for $39.99. That another $170m or so. Virtually Guaranteed. So the question as a company is this. Do we want a virtually guaranteed $165M (170 sales - 5 in additional development time to finish the redacted game levels) or do we want to sell the base game with more content, and then have to spend an extra $45m in additional DLC development. (170-50) to make a virtually guaranteed $120m. (obviously the numbers are just examples, but no one will disagree that holding back content is cheaper than developing all new content.) Any business person will take the 165 over 120. This is only a real option when the market signals its willingness to buy anything though. Some of you already pre-orders the DLC with the game. Some of you even already bought the DLC in full. Right now the are using that Money to make DLC packs 3 and 4. So the lesson is, NEVER PRE-ORDER, it allows developers to get greedy and play games with our games. I GUARANTEE that if NO ONE pre-ordered Destiny, the launch version would have contained more content. SO to the gaming community PLEASE, learn this lesson. NEVER EVER pre-order another game again. You will still get it on launch day, you will still be able to play, but you will keep the gaming mega corporation in check by re-introducing economic risk back into the equation. You will force them to actually earn their money by releasing complete games, and you will hold them accountable to a minimum quality standard. DON'T BE A SUCKER AND DON'T SELL OUT BY PAYING PRE-LAUNCH.[/quote] 👆^This^👆times 500+ million
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I really don't care. I'm enjoying Destiny despite the obvious flaws so they have earned my money.
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Bang on the money, I'll never be pre-ordering another game after this... Gonna wait a couple days and check out some reviews who actually tell the truth (Angry Joe for example). Then make a decision.
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Let's hear it for interest free loans!
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You sir have a very good point about pre ordering...
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Also why try to compare a sealed bid auction to a game production when an auction like that is generally only used for government contracts?? Would like your theory on why your comparing. Read your statement about and they don't really collaborate.
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They are used in the private sector too, in many general contracting setting, constriction in particular. The analogy is this: game producer chooses the time and money spent producing a game. General presumption is the more time / money, the higher the quality. Also, the more "content" the higher the quality, relatively speaking. If a producer has little market info, they will try and release a the highest quality game they can within a reasonable budget. So destiny, as new ip, was a somewhat risky endeavor, and needed to be good to sell, but once hundreds of thousands of people preordered, the risk decreased, this the need to pull out all the stops to sell the game. They were guaranteed to break even on launch alone, so post launch reviews on how much content was included would have little or no impact on overall initial sales. Thus, they can take The risk if holding back some of the content they produced and would have otherwise released.
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Clarifying it that way. Made. 200% more sense to me. Yea I agree that once all the preorders were tallied up. They prob got less worried of it being a success and yea it probably shows here and there or with keen eyes you can probably see Ot everywhere a lol at least. With that said they still took a risk making it and in my own long term gaming franchise experience. All Final fantasies. Wow and diablos under my belt I will probably play destiny for my shooter fun for awhile longer. Least til the trash the shit out a it.. Wich is TBD. Thank you for not being one of those childish types that go right on the defensive and stops trying to explain your point and does the name calling stuff. Maybe they needed another year to notch out all kinks. Yet your theory is still there since on my behalf. Had my preorder since its ability to have. Lol. Wish they would implement more of a blizzard approach to wow. With bosses and world exploration and grinding. Not enough to do once you tried it all. I loved. Rare farming for rare stuff in wow. Like mounts and stuff.
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Awesome!
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I have to disagree with your view on preordering. Back several years ago, around the n64 era, there were more than plenty of quality games such as Ocarina of Time and metal gear solid that were available for pre order and we're actually finished products. Today's gaming era however, publishers are practising other methods that is bad for the consumer, methods many fall for just cause its the "norm". Pre ordering is not the problem, it's dlc. DLC is the main reason content gets cut off because many consumers seem to not have a problem paying more for less, sounds like most oblivious Americans in this country paying extra for cable for channels we don't watch and paying extra for "high speed" internet at embarrassing slow throttled speeds compared to Hong Kong who is #1 right now while the US is at #27 in the world.
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Not as many people were pre-ordering. So even if they were available they weren't selling that many pre launch there for still held in check
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Not as many people may have not been preordering back then, but it doesn't mean that it encouraged every developer to finish the game because of that sole reason. Not every developer will cut content out or get lazy just cause they already have a ton of pre orders confirmed, that's being ignorant to assume. Every developer and publisher have their own business culture.
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Yes, but the gaming industry has fundamentally changed since the N64 era... Name the. Top 10 games ever made... When where they made?
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Yes the industry has changed, however we as the consumer determine whether those business changes will stay Sadly, as the years have gone by, a lot of people (especially the casual crowd) blindly pay more for less. This messes it up for the rest of us who never had to pay more for less.
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Every that says its not a complete game are both visually smart yet retarded. No shit its not complete. Of it was. How would u have room to add to it... Take it from someone that has played a 10+ ur franchise (12 so far. For 11 years and watched it all from the start. The story will get better. Content will start being more in depth and. Look at it this way. Least ur not having to pay 15 a month and buy the 30 dollar expansions the whole time.... Aka wow
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Wow. Got into the first paragraph and scrolled down to see how Much time u spent bitching about the fact that 1 this isn't finished yet, hince stuff u seen might still be added later. They reserve that right the second it was stated to be a 10 yrs franchise. 2nd. How much to you think it costs to make a game and run its servers constantly maintenance them and reserve space and add new content with jotfixes and everything all while paying another large company to publish and promote it... U have numbers. But clearly don't understand a cost effect.
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This in no way exscuses highly unethical business practices man. Its akin to a bar owner saying "Hey man, yeah I took half an ounce out of the 1.5 ounce drink you just paid for, but so what? Do you have any idea how much my rent is? And how much labor costs " While costs are certainly a factor of business, they're in no way an exscuse to do something as shady as the border-lined false advertising, and last minute content cutting Destiny blatantly engaged in, in order to pad their bottom line.
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Bar owner is way different from a game saying something. Compare something else. And what is it that was advertised that isn't in the game. I've went back and looked at all the trailers and there was nothing Out a the ordinary. Especially since everything I seen was CGI. So seriously. Pls help me see what everyone's so pissed about not being in it. I want to see what they see.( seriously). No sarcasm there. I just either am not looking in the right place. Or its the CGI stuff.
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If you didn't read the whole thing, go back and read it. If you read the whole thing, you would know that "cost effect" is not the issue here. Cost effect is a reduction in overall project cost due to efficiency and quality control. My point is that when consumers pre order a product, the producer has a more clear indication of the future revenue volume. This reduces the overall risk for the project. In the video game industry, risk is tied to sales. Sales are tied to popularity. Popularity is tied to overall quality. So you can see the cascading effect. The lower the risk, the lower the post launch perception of quality needs to be in order to drive sales required to turn a profit. This is the exact same principal that drives a blind auction. If you want an item and must bid on it, against other bidders, only get one bid, and have no idea what anyone else will bid, you will bid up to your willingness to pay, the economic actor with the highest willingness to pay will win, this type of auction drives the most aggressive first round bid because the bidder only has one shot to win. If the bidder knows what everyone else is willing to pay, they can pay just over that amount and win, even if that amount is dramatically less than they are actually willing to pay. Thus, when the game consumer signals their willingness to pay, the producer is able to adjust their product accordingly. Lesson to you: read first, speak second, only if you actually understand the subject matter about which you are going to speak about.
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And has nobody accounted the fact as to how many ppl bought and play destiny compared to the ppl unhappy with it?? The unpappies we may call them make up about 1% give or take a few
