They fix shit that don't need to be fixed quite fast

The people who are repeatedly getting booted from Bungie's servers, or can't even log on, would disagree with you.

That's exactly what I meant, they need to fix that kind of problems before they patch caves and sniping from pillars that the enemy can spawn ...there's a whole other problems with the game that they need to fix before telling me "you have to play this way or that way"

I have listened to that podcast in its entirety prior to writing this. That said specific issues require acknowledgement. DeeJ is a community manager, the only one, and thats a bit ridiculous. Bungie is looking to hire at least one more. Regarding acknowledgement people are emphatically against the Aethon patch hitting us today. Bungie has not said that they hear us on that at all. If Deej is supposed to be our advocate he has not done a good job in my eyes. He seems to be acting more as the Destiny PA Propaganda speaker. Everything you say Deej has done to respond to our concerns is in an extremely general way. This is not a game in Beta anymore. There are very specific things that require attention that a large portion of the player base want to see. Bungie needs to shine a spotlight on some of those and say "we hear you loud and clear on x, y, & z and this is our plan for your future". That has not been done to any acceptable level. I absolutely can appreciate your perspective. You are willing to trust and wait at this point but for many including myself that trust was diluted when the original game that was delivered failed to meet the advertised expectations. Thanks for raising an alternative view in a courteous manner and I appreciate the read and response.

At the end of the day, you are correct on principle....but wrong on time table. Unless it is an emergency, corporations just don't move that quickly. In fact I'm amazed at the speed at which the patches we HAVE seen, have come out. As far as the Atheon patch goes, Bungie hasn't said it directly, but I think they were caught a bit flat-footed with the raid. By that I mean they weren't prepared for the sheer power of human creativity and "crowd-sourcing" in picking apart the inner workings of the raid...and are feeling pushed to take steps to preserve its playability and its position as the pinnacle of the PvE game experience. As a result they've had to quash a number of "creative" solutions to beating the bosses. At the end of the day, I'm with the community and I think they are WRONG on this. Especially the Templar patch which basically ripped what I considered a brilliant-and-legitimate strategy for simplifying that fight. One that only took looking at the situation like a soldier (flank the enemy, secure the high ground), and not like a videogamer. They're slowly taking what was a unique experience in team-based problem solving...and are turning into another level-based shoooter. Just one with a ridiculously complicated set of mechanics. When they came out with that first patch, I said then that I thought Bungie would eventually regret doing that----and I think they'll regret the random teleport patch----realizing they've been a bit too "clever". ...and end up killing the desire for people to want to do the raids. My perspective is not one of "trust"....but one of equanimity. Getting mad in a situation like this where you have no real control, only acomplishes one things.....getting mad. So rather than "getting mad", I'm willing to step back and simply "watch and wait". Either the changes will turn out better than I expect...and I'll be happy to tip my hat to Bungie. Or the changes will turn out as badly as I believe they will....and I'll be around to help pick up the pieces. But at the end of the day, six weeks is a very short period of time, and you're not going to see sweeping changes to a game-----exspecially changes that require the planning, writing and debugging of new code in that time frame. Especially when Bungie has in some areas----and feels it has in other areas----bigger fires that it needs to stamp out.

The game should have been held back. I would have waited for what they said they would deliver. Who builds a game that needs parties to complete it, with no way to create the parties in the game? No advanced matchmaking, no party finder, no clan system/communication. They gave us a shell, and now they are trying to fill it. Someone else made this point. This reminded them of FF14 1.0 it failed. I looked up the reasons why. It does have similarities. Enough that I am starting to think the same. The difference is, Bungie and Activision will never admit it. They will carry on with what they say they planned. I will point at the raid and say " I thought you said this was "hard" then they patch it and say "now it is " . That is till the players figure out another way to beat it. Keep patching, that's the way to success.

1. Disagree. With the exception of the connection problems some people are experiencing, all the problems people are complaining about are either end-game problems (which no beta test can predict) or the sort of first-world problems of "we want more!!". 2. Who builds a game like that? Someone who is well-aware of the history of what many competitive FPS players do when given access to voice chat and other means of in-game communication with other players. Bungie made a judgement call to restrict communication. Understanding that it was NOT dealing with the more mature, co-op leaning MMO crowd, and that steps need to taken to prevent bullying, griefing and other anti-social behavior. Did they go too far? Probably....but that, in the grand scheme....is a pretty simple TECHNICAL fix. Where to draw the line between Order and Freedom is a more difficult proposition 3. Every MMO-style game is a "shell" when it is first released. Because you are dealing with the intial release of something that is planned to grow. Destiny is the first chapter in a stroy that is to play out over three more games, and (at least) 4 expansion packs. Only FPS-ers are unfamiliar with this. Ths is pretty standard for MMO/RPG. ...and, from what I hear, FF 14 was just a broken game on release and had to be redone from the ground-up. 4. Like I said before, I disagree with what Bungie is doing with the raid...but sometimes people have to learn things the hard way. The raid IS hard. Lets not forget that it took 14 hours and over a thousand deaths for the guild that finally took it down to do so. But over the last month the raid has---through social media----been "crowd-sourced". So every creative solution to beating the raid faster, and ways other than originally scripted are immediately available to people through Reddit and YouTube. NO development team can possibily stay ahead of millions of players all creatively focused defeating the raid. So I think the approach they ARE taking is a short-sighted one, and one that is ultimately doomed to fail. Yes, patch the more aggregious ways----like pushing the bosses off the playspace. But trying to eliminate EVERY solution to the boss fights other than the one they scripted is a lost cause that, imo, will only diminshed what's the true core of the experience.... ....team communication and problem-solving. The Atheon patch will force more of these...but I think instead of forcing people out of defined roles on the team...it will just cause teams to become deeply-entrenched in not wanting to take inexperienced players into a raid. Because someone who is unfamiliar with the Atheon fight getting teleported into the portal....and having no idea what to do with the aegis...is a huge liability to a team. ...and rare is going to be the team who is going to want to risk hours and multiple wipes at this point to teach someone that role.

1. Is an opinion. Yours. This game should have had more content. I will get back to this. 2. Did I say voice chat? Where? Matchmaking for every thing but the raid. ( I say this to keep you on the subject at hand ) Our opinions differ there. Back to matchmaking. It should not be an after thought in a game that needs parties. Period. Clan and friend integration. Lists in the game. Text chat to communicate with them. They used our systems chat and text messaging. So sad. They could not figure that out. " patch it in " This is not a straight out competitive FPS. It's more. The more part is what Bungie has no clue about. That is why we are having issues. With everything. Right down to the crap we get when we dismantle are stuff, and the glimmer. What to do with it all? Another patch? 3. I was spoiled. The only MMO I have played is FF14 ARR. I can tell you out of the box it has more content then this game. Stories for every class. There are a lot of classes. The main story was fantastic. I came into Destiny thinking if FF14 is this good certainly Destiny will be better or as good. Nope. They failed. Now. Are you an employee of Bungie or Activision? The reason I ask. You "tow the line". Agree with all that Bungie does. Debate what Bungie is trying to do. You haven't been critical of anything. Have you suggested anything? Are you a die hard fan boy/girl? I gave you an example, FF14 failure, the similarities. Did you look it up? Do it. See if it sways your opinion. I doubt it. Your last part. Yes communication and teamwork are the key to all the hard content. That is till players beat it and start farming it. Then what another patch? We have our own opinions. I don't see this game as a game of the year, or next gen. It is fun, flawed but fun.

1. "More content" COMPARED TO WHAT? The game has TONS more content than the typical FPS. Which gives you a few hours worth of story missions----which most people don't even bother to play----and then they ship you off to multiplayer. Until the next sequel. Meanwhile they throw you a bone with a few multiplayer maps as DLC. Full blown MMOs have CRUDE gameplay mechanics compared to a game like Destiny. DC Universe On-line doesn't have to worry about coordinating latency times to within a few mms of one another, for people all over the world. 2. All WANTS and not Needs. DC Universe On-line. A highly-rated MMO has NONE of those things for its basic customers. NONE. ALL of those things you have to PAY for---in this purportedly "free to play"----MMO. Most of the things you list only are available to thos players who pony up a MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION FEE. Which Bungie is not...and will not....be charging you. 3. Then you need to play othe MMOs. Not ones that blew up in their first iteration and are trying to give a way the store in an effort to lure people back to game that has a repuation for being broken. 4. NO. I work in health care...and that's all you need to know about who I am in this setting. ...and I tow NO ONE"s line. I have my own problems with this game. Some of wich I've mentioned in this thread. The difference between me and many of the posters in this forum is htat I have the ability to see BEYOND my own wants and needs...and can see things from Bungie's/Activision's point of view. So I don't have a lot of patience for some of the more childish and unreasonable criticisms being levelled at this game. Most of which are being levelled by FPS gamers who don't "get" the MMO aspects of this game....or MMO gamers who don't "get" the limitiations imposed by the FPS aspects of this game. I've also been a gamer for 20+ years, so I've seen MANY games start from limited begininigs and get slowly buffed and polished into masterpieces by player input, and developer committment. Which is why I support---even if I don't agree with the specifics----those who show up here looking to offer suggestions to Bungie on how to make the game better. But have little patiences for those who simply seem to want attention, throw rocks, and complain about how (after 150 hours of gameplay for their $60) how "ripped off" they feel. Please. Lastly, I lived throught FF14 intial flop. Yes, people complained that it did not have "enough to do". But it got yanked off the market and remade becaue it was a BROKEN game, where people couldn't get on the servers. Problems that Bungie has largely fixed. Frankly---given that this game has been seeing record user-levels for a game launch like this----their servers have held up pretty darn well. Especially afteer the recent "zoo patch". I think I've only been yanked out of the game a couple times since then...and only once during actual game play. Which is about the same sort of failure rates I saw when I was a regular Titanfall player.

If another developer puts a MMOFPSRPG together. This fan base will run to it. Bungie hyped this game. I saw the vids, read the interviews. What the players want is what Bungie said they would deliver. I gave all my feedback. You honestly don't think that matchmaking for everything ( not the raid, God forgive) won't help? That a text base clan/friend messaging system in the game wouldn't help make the community stronger? These are tools that should have been in the game from the start. FF14 1.0 didn't fail only because of servers. I will not quote all of what Yoshida said. I posted it on its own in the forum. We will debate again I am sure. Maybe not. Good luck and good hunting.

You mean the episode where he doesn't answer jack shit? Should be Ep. 82, tho.

Actually he answered a lot. You just have to know what to listen for.

Well, we must have listened to two different potcasts then. All I can recall is political bullshit to evade the actual questions and give generic bullshit answers.

No. We listened to the same podcast, I just have worked in the corporate world long enough to understand what was being said....and what was NOT being said. 1. Deej doesnt' have the power to decide what is, or is not in the game. He only has the power to take back our concerns to those in the company that do...and those people are still deciding what they will and will not do. So he is not---yet----in position to say "yes" or "no" to anything. 2. The comment about "triage" was key. You don't plan a remodelling on a house that's on fire. You put out the FIRE first. The connection problems that people are complaining about all over this forum has been a smoldering fire that Bungie still hasn't managed to fully put out. THAT---along with issues with PvP and the raid----have the power to destroy this game in the marketplace. So Bungies resources are going to dealing with THOSE problems first. When they are dealt with, they'll get around to community "wants"....after the "needs" have been addressed.

Regardless then, bungie sold us a broken game. And Deej is still trying his damnedest to down play and side step that truth. Don't get me wrong, that's his job and I understand that, I'm not mad at him. I'm mad at bungie because what they need to understand is when they send out their puppet to try and placate us with his song and dance it's insulting. They seem to think that they are clever enough that they can continue to bullshit their community into believing whatever they want but too many people know the truth already, this game is broken. If bungie would just come out and straight say "sorry guys, we -blam!-ed up" it would be 10 times better received then people having to "discern the truth" from a conversation. This right here is part if the problem! We shouldn't have to do this, bungie/deej's communication with the community should be clear and easy to understand by the while community (yes even for the CoD asshats) but instead we are having to solve a damn Rubik's cube just to understand what "our representative" means!

A generic "we're listening" isn't as validating as a Bungie rep forum reply to your post - even if it mere says "Thanks! I'll pass your suggestions on to the dev team". The point is that communication is lacking. And without that communication, people will lose interest. Who wants to continue investing time and effort with no return?

At the end of the day, do you want "style" or "substance"? Do you want Deej behind the scence in those important meetings where things are being decided by those who do control what Destiny becomes on the programmign and executive fronts....advocating for us? Or do you want him out here in front, holding our hands? Because there are only 24 hours in a day. In my case, I know the answer I'd pick.

That's a false choice. Bungie claims they are reading the forums and taking our feedback seriously. It's not too much to ask for some validation of that vis a vis a short comment (or even just a "like") that let's us know our feedback was seen and will be sent up the chain/ladder for consideration. Maybe you haven't invested much effort giving Bungie feedback or suggestions, but I have. After doing it, I realized that it's probable that no one at Bungie has ever seen my comments. Ergo, it's a waste of my time. I won't be wasting it any more.