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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Pumpkin Booty: 10/20/2014 9:05:20 PM
654

Why People Continue To Play Destiny

After a lot of thought, I've stumbled across the answer to why Destiny continues to have 3.2 million players every day, despite the rage and frustration over the broken loot system, and other RNG mechanics. I thought to myself: why do people continue to play despite being trolled by the loot system? Why do people continue to come back to Xûr every week, or beat the raid every week for their shot at loot, only to be disappointed by the endless wave of shards and sunbreakers? Why do legendary and exotic engrams drop armor for random classes? Why are rewards never tailored to your character? Why are they making [i]everything[/i] a dice throw? The answer is now plain as day, and actually quite simple. Bungie is taking advantage of innate human gambling addictions. There are reasons why Bungie continues to make everything RNG-based, despite the [i]obvious[/i] rage coming from the community: This artificially extends the life of the game. There is not enough endgame content to keep players busy from launch until December, when the DLC (disc-locked content) unlocks. If players work hard enough to obtain the loot through a reliable method, they're afraid they won't stick around until the DLC. Why continue to play when you've got everything you've had your sights on, right? Creating three characters still won't last if there are reliable ways of obtaining a certain piece of gear for those who are incredibly dedicated. Moving on to engram rates, they create exotic engrams to drop for random classes because A: they want to encourage people to start new characters (artificial lifespan), and B: they want to keep people coming back to Xûr. Didn't get the weapon/armor you want? Ahh, he might have it next week. But to get the materials to buy it, you've gotta play a bunch before you can buy it, when you have a 5/6 chance of [i]not[/i] getting the armor you want. They are capitalizing on the fact that people have innate gambling addictions, and [i]this[/i] is precisely what keeps people coming back. The RNG in Atheon's teleportation is designed to artificially increase the difficulty of the raid. Instead of creating mechanics that are difficult at first to figure out, they create a mechanic that destroys all forms of strategy and role-filling, as it [i]should[/i] be. The RNG in the Crucible keeps players playing for a shot at loot drops, which is why it's possible to get exotics as rewards, even for the player who goes 1-35 in Clash. Destiny does not reward performance [i]at all[/i]. It simply rewards you for being present at the end of an activity. There is no incentive to perform well. See what I'm talking about? Everywhere there's RNG in the game, there's another example of Bungie capitalizing on the innate addiction to gambling. It's all a slot machine, people, and guess what? [i]They own you.[/i] They own everyone who hasn't realized this yet. They own each and every person who continues to check Xûr every week, hoping that their desired Exotic will be for sale. And this is exactly why the loot system will never, ever, [i]ever[/i] be fixed. There's not enough real content in the game for people to come back to, so they make the entire meta-game a slot machine so that they can rope people into playing their gutted, half-assed, disappointing excuse for what we were promised was going to be a truly engaging experience. I'm on to you, Bungie. I'll be keeping tabs on the development of this game, but you have been exposed now. First it was the Disc Locked Content, then it was the unneeded nerfs, and then it was the RNG mechanics in the Vault of Glass. You may have everyone else fooled, but I smell bullshit. And I smell it [i]strong.[/i] It seems nobody cares about making a truly good game anymore. Not even you. [b]Edit:[/b] There are an [i]astounding[/i] amount of people in here who seem to think that I am complaining about having to work hard to get gear. That is [i]not[/i] what I am talking about. The only way to get to level cap is by rolling a dice in the Vault of Glass week after week. This isn't grinding, nor is this hard work. One could theoretically join in as a 25 just before the Templar is killed and receive raid armor. This is [i]not[/i] how a raid should reward people. There is no hard work where the particular RNG of this loot system is concerned. [b]Edit 2:[/b] [i]Because some people are apparently brain-dead, read this before you post.[/i] [quote]While every MMO has an RNG component to it's loot system, I feel that a loot system where you cannot get endgame gear other than playing a slot machine once a week creates artificial replay value. Leveling up your gear? It takes a while, but you will get there. Buying faction gear? Could take a while, but you will get there. Hypothetical scenario: The greatest Destiny player carries the worst Destiny player through the Vault of Glass every week. Because of this particular system, there is a good chance that the best Destiny player never gets raid armor, which is required to reach level cap, while the worst player acquires all raid armor and an Epilogue. Then Xûr sells him a helmet because the best player carried him through the weekly. See the problem here? People ultimately aren't rewarded for their skill in this game, as they should be. Other MMO's reward one mostly based off of skill and how much time you put into a task. When there is an element of RNG present, it is usually possible to farm the sources of the loot because of this very reason. In Destiny, it is the opposite. Players are locked out of the loot rewards every week after they complete the raid. Even if someone beats the Vault 50 times, it is theoretically possible to never attain appropriate rewards.[/quote]
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  • Oh no! Game developers are using everyones addictive personalities against them! WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD DUMBASS. Everything you own, everything that was bought for you, everything you eat, everything you do, is and always will be dictated by smarter people than you. Get used to it.

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    • Edited by Diet Bacon Cola: 10/20/2014 10:24:25 AM
      you shall be entitled to your opinion, you shall not be entitled to entitlement. This is not Halo... welcome to MMO where things are not streamlined. If the loot drop would be as you believe it should be then everyone would be Level 30 after 1 week. I am fine with the loot drops, I know i get nothing useful unless i level up Rahool or my reputation because you got to be extremely lucky to get something good out of a drop. This makes the game so good, you get a lot of crap in order to level up the Cryptark with a shot every 10 levels to get something awesome. The only place where you get good stuff guaranteed is the raid. That's the concept of the game. If you think the raid is not hard work you must be awesome, i think it is hard. Cheaters remain cheaters, they are not playing my game, it is their problem if they join a raid to get rewards, they will be level 30 in no time with no purpose of playing.

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      • omg... you mean Bungie is trying... on purpose... to require me to play additional hours and mindlessly farm things just like every other mmo does because they want us addicted enough to buy the expansions???? Those bastards! Justify things however you want in your head. It's a good game that's very fun to play. It has many flaws as do most games. Is there a lot of promise here? Yes. Before I give bungie too much crap, I want to see the release of content over the next few months.

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        • working hard to get gear =/= RNG bending you over a barrel. Think of it like this , You work on a massive epic questline that sends you across the globe , get this mythical object from that troll this , slay this dragon there for its scales ,yadayada, bring all them back to a mystic forge to make said legendary object. THAT is working hard for your gear. RNG is NOT working hard for your gear , that is going <yawn> what will i get today slot machines. tell me how that is REMOTELY hard work? (to all the idiots saying your complaining about that OP =P )

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        • Are grinder games new to you? Wanting to keep playing to obtain an award, dear god this is an amazing discovery. Oh wait, nearly every single game does this in some form or another. Call of duty does it in the form of killstreaks, nukes, moabs, kem strikes, challenges and lets not forget prestige. Most games do it by giving you tiny bits of story. You keep playing, even through sections you don't really like to see what happens next. Some grinder games give you loot at almost every kill but the stats on the loot are random so it may take a day or even months to get the exact item you are wanting. One example would be world of warcraft ( charges you monthly too ). League of legends breaking up leaderboards into sub leaderboards into sub leaderboards. Why would any game developer add in ways to keep the players hooked? Why on gods green earth would they ever want to give players a reason to keep playing? Name one game that you could play for months on end that had no grinding mechanics, in one form or another, at all, but relied solely on 'fresh' content and a never ending story.

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          • -blam!- RNG. I've ran the normal raid almost 10 times and the hard raid twice and still haven't received ONE piece of raid armor. The hard raid only gave me a ship and the sparrow at the end, which I can get in the normal raid (sparrow). Remember when bungie said we would "earn" gear?

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          • Actually, you're wrong where I am concerned. I don't care about the RNG. I am having fun, that's all that matters. I like slapping the shit out of people in crucible. I love to rocket launcher mobs to death and see their bodies in pieces. I don't know why, but my favourite thing to do some days is just to take down a walker solo. Some days, I do the story lines again, to head shot practice on mobs. Mostly so I can take twisted screenshots of them Having good gear really helps, but I am quite happy to just play. Don't presume. Just olay

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          • "A: they want to encourage people to start new characters (artificial lifespan)" God forbid you learn to play a different class "The RNG in Atheon's teleportation is designed to artificially increase the difficulty of the raid" Holy shit, Now you need to be able to adapt to something unpredictable. If you cant do the fight with your eyes closed you aren't good enough yet. Sorry.

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          • Edited by R0ugeShad0w-: 10/20/2014 11:03:08 AM
            I still play it because it's fun and I enjoy killing things with friends

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          • They're addicted to the random loot rewards. It's no different than a gambling addiction, srs. Game developers know exactly what they're doing.

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            • Maybe some people play it because it's fun? I know I do. The teamwork of the Raid is what I enjoy. Items are a bonus. I don't need to get a legendary engram every time I complete something in order to feel rewarded. I don't need to get an exotic after every crucible match in order to feel like I did a good job. I dont care if someone who had a worse match than me gets better loot because PLAYING the game is the fun part not just getting gear at the end. If I kill Aetheon and get ascendant energy and a shader (which I did) then it doesn't bother me because I enjoyed actually doing it. Ever hear the one about the journey vs. the destination??

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            • I agree with you a 100%. I know im the one being played here. But i wish skill mattered you know, especially in the pvp aspect of the game. I play pvp a lot these days, its fun and im kinda tired of strikes and grinding stuff. I often, not always, end at 1. Place but the fact that rewards (yeah rewards, not rng loot) are random makes me pretty mad, i cary my team and some chump gets all the good stuff? Cmon! Im not saying the top players should get all the love just more % of the drop rate.

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            • A million tears are not enough for master rahool.

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              • Do you smellllllllllllllllllllllllll!!! What the Bungie is cooking? *bullshit* High five dude! I'm pissed too, I'm having a great time venting out on these forums lol.. I'd rather spend my time bitching on these forums then run another strike.. Sooo much Sepiks Prime.. Sooo much Phogoth, the Unchained.. There's just no purpose.. At least on these forums I have a purpose.. To EXPOSE the bullshit! It's the real Raid, taking down Bungie, instead of Atheon lol

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              • I wish your ghost found some one else

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                • For the loot ala Diablo 3. For the coop PVE, and the competitive PVP. Why do people keep playing any game ...

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                  • Because I'm a mmo-masochist. Must do dailies, weeklies, bounties, oh my! I am running into a wall of nothing left that I *want* to do. Sure I could go for one of the factions, but I'm not big on pvp. I still have one more alt to level...

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                  • My opinion is that Bungie did well on this one. As a decent player, yea, I dislike doing well in a Crucible match and getting robbed in the after game "random loot." But on the same token, I've had a bad game here and there, but got a decent item after the game. I'm not in this game for the gambling. It might be the shooting, social, raid, and strategy elements that the game offers. Also, the "One Arm Bandit" handle I had installed on the side of my TV has nothing to do with a gambling addiction......

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                    • I play because I can hang out with buddies that normally I would only see once a week at most. Whine somewhere else.

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                    • You really shouldn't make a post as if you speak for the masses, I play Destiny because I enjoy the hell out of it.

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                      • HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA do you not understand the fundamental reward system almost every video game has these days where players are rewarded incrementally to keep them playing? RNG has nothing to do with it

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                      • Edited by loonigus: 10/20/2014 7:43:15 AM
                        Well I have to agree with this topic tbh. Atleast in some areas of the post... Mainly the gambling nature of humans. Why was WoW and still is so popular? The loot... Ppl spending months farming one area to recieve something very rare, but with no guarantee. They are building on the suspense one builds up. So i fully agree with this gambling thing. I dont agree with the Xur part tho. There is no rocket science degree needed to look behind Bungies intention with Xur. It is the ultimate proof that Bungie wanted to put a way to obtain exotics for the casuals. The casuals are the backbone of any MMO. I dont get it why there is no matchmaking for the Weekly or Nightfall strike... I mean ppl are already soloing on a regular basis anyway lol... Also implementing a matchamaker for the normal VoG is more then real imho... Why there isnt some sort of token system in the VoG where same as with the coins one could buy the armor items? Ive seen ppl having 100+ shards after 10 VoG runs or ppl with 6 or more same gun drops, armor for different class, etc. Also there should be a way how a casual that cant or dont want do the VoG to obtain the 30 light armor parts... A long way, but still a way.

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                      • Edited by CEO: 10/20/2014 7:09:09 AM
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                        From a discerning player's perspective a completely random loot system just doesn't work in a game. It's bad and lazy programming. It doesn't actually reward anything, it's pure "luck" and it ends up being frustrating. It makes it possible for someone playing from day one to never have gotten any exotics or legendaries for their class from the loot system. This is actually possible, unlikely, but possible. Two hypothetical people that have played destiny exactly the same way, one might have all the exotics while another has none. This is not "earning" anything, it is just spending time playing and hoping that randomly you will get something you want. It's gambling, you bet time and hope for the exotic you want. It is entirely possible for someone to get much more exotics and legendaries in a weekend than someone who played from day one has gotten so far. But from the perspective of the developer of a game that wants to keep its servers populated and sell expansions your post is spot on. Make it addictive, create the habit of doing the daily heroic for example, insert limits and mechanics that artificially extend the length of the game. In destiny the loot system should reward certain invisible milestones, for example: [spoiler] ...and these really are just examples, bungie is the one with tons of data to be able to properly devise such kind of systems: Doing a certain number of level 24 strikes in a week should award players with an exotic/legendary weapon, if most were the earth strike then it would be a certain weapon or class of weapon. Getting a certain number of fallen head shots in a week would grant a reward. Reaching xxxx kills in a week would award you an exotic/legendary, which one would be related to your MO, do you favoured cabal with assault riffles? Large groups with rockets? Killing most enemies from a distance and then finishing up with a melee? It all affected your rewards. Someone that liked using grenades a lot would get a piece of armour after a certain number of kills each week that affected grenades, turning something that he already enjoyed even more effective and fun for him. Bungie has the data for all of this, it's just a matter of stopping to be lazy and actually programming the loot system. True randomness just doesn't work in a game. In fact apart from random number generators nothing is really random, it is all dependent on a series of events. A system like the one I have described is the right kind of "random", to players it's hard to figure out the exact way to get a specific item, but it rewards their play style and their investment in the game. The loot system is broken because of its very nature. Randomness might bring balance to very large numbers, for example a dice that is thrown a million times, but to the player at the end of a match it just ends up feeling devoid of logic and frustrating.[/spoiler]

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                      • This is how every diablo, path of exile, me3 mp, mmo, loot-based game works. Yes. Is this your first? I do not mean that in a disparaging way. It's how these games keep players coming back for days, months, years. At least they're not charging a monthly fee.

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                        • Edited by Star Lord: 10/20/2014 7:20:35 AM
                          You're exactly right, I joined a hard mode raid last night and the second I joined Atheon died and it gave me the vex helmet and timebreaker the sparrow. No work AT ALL, I was stoked but still it irked me that I didn't do anything. It means exactly what you just said, I want the game we were promised but we won't get it. Not now that the lead writer left, and Bungie had more freedom when with Microsoft :(

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                        • The problem isn't the RNG loot system, it's the fact that there is so little content that the loot system is [i]all there is in the game[/i]. Hundreds of MMOs have employed the same system, but you know what else they have? Progression. In WoW, you are gearing up to get further and further into a massive raid instance with your guild. In Destiny, most people will clear the raid in one night, on their first try. As fun as VoG was, I'm not about to grind at it with a "chance" at more gear that I don't need(not interested in Hard mode, there is just too low of a skill cap to stand out in this game). At this point loot is all there is. Luckily my friend is footing the bill for this game so I'll probably be back to check out the DLC every quarter, but I do feel bad for the people that bought into this one.

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