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originally posted in: Super long Feedback post
10/18/2014 11:21:21 AM
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Gear Diversity: I actually take back the things I’ve said about this during the alpha, beta and first two weeks of Destiny. There is actually a respectable variety of gear in Destiny at the moment. Now the problems are that A) you may never get to see it due to RNG B) everything becomes obsolete when you are FORCED to wear a very narrow selection of gear to raise a light level, culminating in a single set for those wanting to reach level 30 (the raid gear). This is a funnel, it is very bad, which Lord of the Rings online learned the hard way, just tell me if any of this sounds familiar: Also the legendary gear that the vanguard sells looks atrocious and tacky. My warlock had to sacrifice his majestic, regal blue-rarity trench coat for some tattered, gaudy piece of shit that makes me look like a magical hobo, just to level up. I can at least see the point of having jagged rectangular shoulders when I need to hit enemies with a shoulder charge, but unless Atheon is in desperate need of shaving his armpits, I think the STUPID razor blade on top of my hideous helmet really just needs to go and get lost forever in the timestream. Also where in the hell are the playstation exclusive gear sets and why are they only blue rarity when they look like what Legendary gear ought to be. In fact, what is up with the rarity levels in general? Blue and sometimes even green gear looks like they should be rare and legendary. Most legendary gear looks like it should be in the quickly discarded green level dustbin. Xbox players can rest at ease knowing they aren’t missing anything because by the time someone actually manages to get a full set of the exclusives it will be both obsolete and out on xbox. (which I have no problems with since I think ‘timed’ exclusives are scams). Also AESTHETIC CUSTOMIZATION! This entails being able to choose which parts of my apparel have what colour or pattern to them and being able to use the armour I have possessed in the past as a skin for the armour which I am presently wearing. Look at GW2 if you want to see how this is done, just don’t pull any crap like the transmutation charges. Fighting my kneejerk reaction to say -blam!- crucible, I’ll just add that if you intend to keep the light system, no one will ever mistake the gear you are wearing with that which you are showing for the following reasons: A) You can only get past level 20 with light gear B) The enemy is trying to kill you, not give you fashion advice C) Everything is supposedly ‘normalised’ so the gear you are wearing should not matter in PvP PvP vs. PvE Allow me to give you a brief history lesson: Here we go, the flamewar cometh. Since the inception of the MMO genre the developers of its most popular titles have struggled with what I like to call the “Chosen one” paradox. Basically the story labels you, the player as THE chosen one, but does this for everyone in the game. In PvE it is relatively easy to make this work because computer controlled enemies don’t get to complain about fairness. This is why developers can include ridiculous, over the top weapons and abilities that would be hopelessly unbalanced in a competitive scenario, because FUN is all that matters. In PvE everyone can be special once they work enough to reach the ‘end game content’ otherwise known as having their cake and eating it. Given the farcical nature of our age rating system’s regulatory methods and the priority of games publishers to sell as many copies a possible, many children at least 6 years too young to play a title, play it. These individuals are what is known as ‘special snowflakes’ and the concept of not being THE chosen one is foreign to them. If they die in what is called PvP, they will scream bloody murder and demand justice against the cretin whom violated their power fantasy. Note that though this is extremely prevalent amongst this age group, it is not exclusive to them, some adults truly are not worthy of the name. The problem then is balance in PvP, the more mechanics and moving parts there are, the more variables. This is why counter strike has always been heralded as the epitome of skill based, hardcore shooting. It is so barebones and focused on core mechanics that these have been polished to near perfection. Games like Call of Duty and Battlefield excel in the variety they offer players, which is what makes them so popular However, when you have dozens of guns, vehicles, attachments and environmental effects these all complicate things greatly. Especially since the human brain will always gravitate towards that which is most effective in a competitive scenario. If one gun reigns supreme, guess which gun people will use? The nerf hammer is not something that should be wielded lightly and is more likely to crush like a weapon than repair as a tool. Especially when wielded agains PvE where feeling OP after working for it IS THE POINT. This is the source of the outrage on the forums from PvE players, fundamentally it is the PvP where everything needs to be barebones and homogenized to provide a level playing field which caters to skill. PvE is the playground that caters to dedication and power fantasies. From a marketing standpoint having seamless transition between the two is amazing but from a practical standpoint it is a nightmare. Especially since Destiny is essentially RNG: the game right now and there is no way to guarantee that everyone has access to the current ‘god gun’ as the moniker goes. MMO players break things: Being the cheeky, curious little fiends they are, MMO players can be counted upon to do things with and to your game that you could never have dreamed of. The worst possible response is to take away their toys. They really are quite like children in that positive reinforcement > Negative reinforcement. Tell an MMO player “if you don’t do this you will get better results” will see them do what you want. Telling them “we don’t want you to do this and will kill you if you try” well…you can see what that results in on the forums, Ye olde nerd rage (justified in my opinion) Please for the love of dear, sweet tap dancing RNGeesus stop trying to fight us, we are legion and outnumber you at least 10,000 : 1. There will always be loot caves, there will always be cheesy strategies for bosses but only ‘fixing’ creative approaches into oblivion will only result in there not always being players. A marketing blitz only gets you so far and only lasts so long. Keep this up and the amount of new players won’t balance out the amount of people moving on to newer and better things. Incentivise players to play the way you want them too instead of punishing them for playing in ways that frighten you. This is the only way, ask any MMO developer still in business (even your elder Steph brother Blizzard.) Speaking of Blizzard, ask for their roadmap on the loot system which they implemented in Diablo III. It will save us all so very much time, effort and frustration. Since this post is already obscenely long, I’ll just stop now, but please take the time to read it, as it contains the collective opinions and views of dozens of threads I have read, not just my own views.
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  • Edited by Devout_Jay: 5/2/2015 5:34:52 PM
    I really want certain weapon looks to be legendary. I was playing with my cousin and noticed his scout rifle had an awesome design of a tiger or some kind of cat like animal on it, but when I inspected him it was rare.... I was like "why in the world does my legendary look worse than this?? I want this gun!"

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  • Im not the best but i only play pvp . If u want we can team up add ; birthdayhm65 on the ps4

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  • Bump for Great Justice!

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  • Bump

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  • Wishing I could wear some of the lower level gear for social looks. Bring on a social 'tab' function where armor can be placed for looks an not stats while still wearing raid gear!

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  • Edited by QuirkyViper: 10/20/2014 8:29:08 PM
    Its long been a staple for mmo's to not just have 'skins' for social purposes but also in the actual gameplay (see transmutation or whatever they call it). Why should you not be permitted to have [b]your[/b] guardian look the way you want at all times? It is my firm belief that if you vastly prefer the look of common gear, power to you.

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  • It should have been so hard to make smissions into unique situations so that when you are forced to repeat it for the usual grind the genre calls for, it actually does seem that smikis prime is immortal or that you have to charge the gate keepers eyes 10 times for random reasons. The story isn't bad in how it's paced and set up but its small. All the strikes are repetitive in their mechanics and they shouldn't by default have a story or names etc that would make repeating them illogical. Change names of bosses. Change introductory notes. Something. Mad logic is missing a lot. The ones who will dedicate years and hours into destiny aren't the shooter fans. Those will gravitate to cod and other pvp oriented games where a) story has no role in the mechanics of the contents that you end up repeating and b) as players they are by default a group who cares more about the shooting itself than the context in which is played. The ones who will make the game last will be the rpg fan players. To those story, logic, details, economics,skills, etc all of it plays important roles in their enjoyment of the game and the overall experience. Worse. These are the ones that typically come to rage at the creators walls complaining and pointing out all issues in coherent and logic reasonings. Please. Bungie. Read this. And all of it.

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  • I absolutely agree with you that it is RPG players which Destiny relies on to last. These are the players which need to be catered to. Unfortunately Bungie is learning the hard way that unlikebfans of shooters where the mechanics are all that matters, RPG fans are a hell of a lot more demanding. Context and logic are indeed the most important. When people ask 'why can't I use the environment to my advantage?' It simply isn't good enough to just say 'its a glitch!' For example.

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  • I currently see destiny as a shooter because it's a really good one. The weapons, enemies, gameplay, visuals, maps, sound, etc are all perfect. It can be almost arcade like to incredibly hard. As a shooter it's really good. A pve shooter that is. As a pvp one, time to kill is too small. Skill matters not in destiny pvp. And it's too small and limited to be what it could become. It pushes shooter fans away because of that. As an rpg it has too many flaws to be seen as one. Level matters nothing. And that's a huge flaw. For example, a vandal level 2 can't be killed with one melee hit same as it can't at level 22. Makes little sense. Then the story was left mostly to the imagination. Rpg fans ar obsessed with that. Game economics is a bit all over the place and like many have said glimmer quickly loses importance as you progress. Looting is awkward at best. Legendaries don't drop. Simple. To drop a legendary is virtually impossible so low is the chance. Exotics aren't exotics enough for example. And the game has stuff that have no actual use such as ghost shells, ships, class armours, shaders, etc. I still love it though. I just face it with a more casual look and more as a shooter.

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  • I agree with most of this, its kind of like identity crisis: the game

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  • Indeed. I just think that while I recognise the flaws that people are pointing to the game, the biggest issue was how the game was announced and how it is falling short of what people expected. However, the game is still awesome and still has many good things that make it very good. But rpg players couldn't expect an rpg title in its fullest. Nor could shooter fans expect a fully dedicated pvp shooter title. The merging of both genres works well in pve. But for pvp it flawed. The idea should be that when you enter crucible, all your armor ratings go to a default value as does your abilitie such as agility recovery inteligence etc. then all the weapons would have a damage value also fixed. A x damage possible to inflict in a target per let's say 5 seconds. Unless this type of levelling applies it's bound to be an awkward pvp game. Time to kill is too short. You have no control over the variables of the game and it's all random. Pvp players want to play their favourite map or add twists such as force errvuone to have one weapon or remove all basic weapons. Etc etc. I still hope for them to fix it but if not I'll still play it. Still enjoyable to me.

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  • Again, I feel you make a very good point. I pointed to Guild Wars 2 as an example because here all automatically level capped and given access to everything their class has to offer, using special pvp gear as well. Though by no means perfect, I think this would be best for pvp. Whilst I strongly dislike crucible myself and wish all resources had gone to PvE. I think its arrogant to demand its removal. However I believe firmly seperating the two, can allow Bungie to provide the balance and tightness pvp players demand without having to worry about 'gamebreaking' pve gear. PvE is all about feeling OP as hell as a reward four your dedication and time. And stuff like the Atheon cheese or the loot cave are fun quirky things that only became a problem due to yielding great PvP gear. (Sick, so this might not be too coherent)

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  • Again fully agree. The multiplayer could have been integrated into the game story as a sort of arena where you fight for your faction and earn reputation as you do it. It should be part of the mechanics of the game and not an icon on the lower left corner of the screen. It could have easily be something like this "The arena opened. From all over the system, guardians come to prove themselves. Here each faction tries to get the best guardians and push their political agendas as they attempt to sway the speaker one side or the other. Fight to get invited into a faction and enjoy their wealth and resources which will help you grow stronger. Once your invited fight for your factions influence and power to grow. As you enter this arena, leave all special gear behind. Leave all special weapons and bring only your power. All play equal in this arena. " A simple integration of pvp into the game itself instead of the awkward thing it is right now.

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  • At that point it suddenly makes massive sense for the faction vendours to only accept crucible marks. These special, high powered weapons are a token of gratitude from the faction for bringing attention to them and highlighting how powerful the faction is by defeating other guardians. There could even be different boosts and benefits per week for the leading faction. Umagine dead orbit followers really cleaning up in the crucible and having increased xp gain and resource gain the next week. Such a system would require management to prevent a snowball effect occuring for a single faction that's doing really well, but its at least interesting. Still, I think its fine for crucible play to earn you rewards for use in PvE, but not to the point of it feeling forced if you want to get ahead.

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  • Still all of this is unlikely to happen. It would change the game too much and I think Bungie already has their plan defined even if somewhat flawed.

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  • I believe these changes to be possible and commercially viable. However your point about Bungie having a plan and rolling with still stands. I am giving them until Destiny 2 to decide whether the 'legend' is still in the making or of incredible potential wasted.

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  • Bump

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  • Bump

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  • Bungivision has f'd you up greatly. All their promises of edition / system specific extras were only meant to make you greedily jump on them, spend extra money for it and get a lame excuse of content that was just enough to avoid being sued for it (which would not happen to a game company anyway, given the majority of players' age group).

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  • Well to be perfectly honest this seems to be the owerarching theme of Destiny. They TECHNICALLY provide what they promised but it is irrecognizable from the actual promise

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  • It does feel like they are working against us. I don't think they have decided if this is an RPG or a shooter. It really can't be both and do anything well

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  • Rpg shooter can be done no problem, it is trying to include competitive multiplayer seamlessly which is a disaster.

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  • And they seem overly desperate to padd things out as long as possible, most likely not anticipating the existing content to be cleared so fast

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  • Could you imagine being near the hell mouth killing hive for a patrol, and suddenly a ship ports in and drops off a named Knight, a couple wizards and thralls start crawling up from cracks and ledges all coming for you?

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  • that would be emergent gameplay, something which is a corner stone of good RPG's

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