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Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by H8RNsTripleOG: 1/20/2015 12:39:39 AM
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Ahamkara

[b]Edit:[/b]Pronunciation: aa-hem-car I talk to my Hindu friend and this is how its pronounced, to him, the way he studies Hinduism; it refers to great and powerful, full of anger. Not bad anger, just like a crazy kind of rage with an all knowing sense. So, we aren't quite sure yet what the Ahamkara are, exactly. What little we know, is that they're rumored to be dragons, possibly. What do we know about the Ahamkara? Well, lets go by the "Ghost Fragment: Warlock" grimoire entry. Why did I set her on the trail? You try and try to explain, but no one ever understands. No one who's not a Warlock. Who hasn't spent a dozen years scouring the ruins for one string of symbols, one clean code, one black talon. Titans just make a hmphing noise, if they've stayed awake. Hunters clean their nails with their knives and look at you like you've grown a third eye. But when you've spent your life searching through arcana for ancient power, you have the urge to reach out and educate others. Especially if you've had one too many. Nah, she's not my type at all. We've played dice, cards, war games, you know, the usual stuff. I'd never tried to show off before. I don't know what came over me. I had a broken vertebrae in my pocket that I'd borrowed from - yes, borrowed, I was going to put it back - what do you think you are, my conscience? It was a fossil, that means mineral replacement, a rock, basically. They can survive a few hours in my pocket. Do shut up. The Cryptarchs weren't going to miss it. Everyone knows the Ahamkaras were hunted to extinction. There's nothing to be afraid of anymore. Think of how mysterious this system is, I said. How much life sprang up when the Traveler came. Like the Ahamkara. Do you know the legends? The dragon that made promises? And I pulled out the fossil with a flourish - She pulled out her knife and started to pick the dirt from her nails. That set me off. You could never have brought down one of these, I said. Ever. Not the greatest Hunter, not the brawniest Titan. Her eyes narrowed. She said, Oh? Is that so? And I saw right then that she wasn't going to pass on the challenge. So, from that we have learned of "The dragon that made promises", and that all the Ahamkara are believed to be extinct. We also see that "the greatest hunter, nor the brawniest titan" could have brought a Ahamkara down, meaning the warlocks were the ones to hunt them to (what is believed to be) extinction. We also see that the warlock behaved abnormally around the vertebrae of an Ahamkara, "borrowing" it, and using it to "show off", as if it had compelled him to do so. This is further evidenced by the exotic helmet, "Skull of Dire Ahamkara". Reality is the finest flesh, oh bearer mine. And are you not…hungry? "oh bearer mine", as if the bones are speaking to you directly. "Reality is the finest flesh", that's a very intriguing sentiment, especially given the Warlock class grimoire card: Warrior-scholars of the Light, Warlocks devote themselves to understanding the Traveler and its power. A Warlock mind is an arsenal of deadly secrets, balanced between godhood and madness. On the battlefield, those secrets can shatter reality itself. So warlocks have a tangible understanding of reality, and the bones of a dead dragon seem to be (attempting) to convince you that you are hungry, and reality is quite tasty.. perhaps asking you to shatter reality itself, and bend you to its will for some dark purpose. Now, Warlocks being the slayers of the Ahamkara, it makes sense they'd have a Ahamkara exotic. However, the Hunters actually have one, too! It's the Young Ahamkara's Spine. Give me your arm, oh bearer mine. Let me help you fill the world with teeth. Reality is delicious, and let me help you fill the world with teeth. Interesting sentiments, which are made all the more interesting when you discover the Warlock exotic "Voidfang Vestments" "YOU WILL DREAM OF TEETH AND NOTHING ELSE" - scratched behind a buckle So the Ahamkara want us to feast upon reality, quite literally. I don't have a great understanding of the Void yet, so someone will have to help me fill in the gaps, there. Then there's also the Great Ahamkura Hunt, from Ghost Fragment: Legends 3 The Great Ahamkara Hunt After great deliberation it was determined that the Ahamkara be made extinct. It was not an easy decision. Power had been obtained from the bargains, and the City needed power. Knowledge had been gleaned, and the Ahamkara knew answers to questions no one had known to ask. But the price was too high. And no edict or forbearance seemed to stop Guardians from seeking them out, driven by hope, or vengeance, or despair. The call had to be silenced. So the Great Hunt did its work. And thus the Ahamkara were made extinct, their call silenced, their solipsistic flatteries erased, their great design - if it ever existed - broken. Of this you can be assured, oh reader mine. So the Ahamkara had forbidden knowledge, which the Warlocks would surely seek out. It makes sense they would be targeted. Notice the "oh reader mine"? So the Ahamkara aren't truly extinct after all, we were just all lead to believe so. Here's what we've gleamed so far: Ahamkara are dragons, with forbidden knowledge. Death seems to be no end to them, and their bones (possibly?) contain power over guardians. They were thought to be extinct, but clearly aren't. They are (possibly?) creatures of the void, to whom reality is a delicacy. And to my knowledge, there is no Ahamkara titan exotic, either. Very, very interesting. [UPDATE1] As Muirenne points out: In Venus when the sun goes down, (unless that was just random on my end) you can see them either up in the sky or down in the cliffs/ravines. But Venus isn't the only place, one or two can also be seen farting about around the tower. http://i.imgur.com/bHQtt5n.jpg[1] http://i.imgur.com/5D96uQX.jpg[2] The ones we see are just tiny little guys. When they fly near something, it's easy to gauge distance and size, especially if you zoom in on them. They are most likely a generic, fairly unintelligent species of flying lizards with an unhealthy habit of clipping through objects. The dragons can be seen in-game, flying around, even around the tower. Considering we know the Ahamkara had dealings with the tower before, and that great deals had to be made, it actually makes a lot of sense that they'd be keeping a close eye on the Tower itself. One has to wonder what was traded in order to gain the power to defend ourselves, however. [UPDATE2] Also, SilensPhoenix has an interesting theory about why the titans don't have their own Ahamkara Exotic: Titans were of no use to the ahamkara, they do not have access to the power of solar light. Which is further given credence, as pointed out by Flash_Hunter, that unreleased Warlock exotic gloves, the "Claws of Ahamkara" have a very interesting flavor text: One more for you, Exotic Warlock gauntlets: Claws of Ahamkara : "Look at all this life, oh bearer mine. There is so much left to burn... " Possibly to be part of the first expansion pack loot. There is also a lot of interesting hidden meaning behind the names. As pointed out by VoxusNemo, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahamkara[1]Ahamkara is a sanskrit word. It truly is interesting to see the Sanskrit/Indian influences in Destiny. eg: Ahamkara, Pujari,etc which, as pointed out by echof0xtrot: fits perfectly with the solipsism, nice find I'll just post the autowikibot definitions here too, to save time: Ahamkara: Ahaṃkāra (अहंकार) is a Sanskrit term that is related to the ego and egoism - that is, the identification or attachment of one's ego. The term "ahamkara" comes from an approximately 3,000 year-old Vedic philosophy, where Ahaṃ refers to the concept of the Self or "I" and kāra refers to the concept of "any created thing" or "to do". The term originated in Vedic philosophy over 3,000 years ago, and was later incorporated into Hindu philosophy, particularly Saṃkhyā philosophy. Ahamkara is one of the four parts of theantahkarana (inner organ) described inHindu philosophy. The other three parts are Buddhi, Citta and Manas. In the Uttara Mimamsa or vedanta branch of Hindu philosophy, even though it is not discussed in great detail in the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna says to Arjun that ahamkara must be removed - in other words, it should be subordinated to the lord. The reason for this is that the Self is not (cannot be) present when one is in a state of nirvana. Solipsism: Solipsism (i/ˈsɒlɨpsɪzəm/; from Latin solus, meaning "alone", and ipse, meaning "self") is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As anepistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external worldand other minds cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind. As ametaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist. [b]Edit:[/b]Dragons breath grimoire From the labs of Feizel Crux and Victor Lomar comes another shoulder assault offering built to match the incendiary fury of a legendary beast — or at least classic depictions of it.  Carrying three rockets, each equipped with Solar Flare detonators, its power is believed to far outmatch those of the mythical flying monster, but we're still hoping an actual showdown between the two will put an end to that argument.

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  • If you read the books of sorrow it sheds some light on them(figuratively speaking) It describes the adults as colossal demonic draconic beasts with immense power. In their introduction they keep a character unharmed in the core of a planet. Throughout the story they're treated as gods to the hive. However they're trapped in the core of the same planet. They seem to transfer their power through their larva to communicate and seduce victims. They offer power akin to god hood. They give the hive all its power and seem to feed off the death and destruction they cause.the larvae can be found in the Dreadaut. The books never actually say anything about their encounters with other species other than the ones the wipe out through the hive but it can be assumed they were trying to recreate the hive on earth with humans. Their only goal is to find a species strong enough to wipe out all others in the name of entropy. They are the closest thing to the actual physical darkness we've encountered throughout all of destiny and its lore if not the darkness itself.

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  • The hunter artifact Ahamkara Scale has the description: "And that Warlock thought I couldn't do it. Hah!" So now we know how the first grimiore story ended :P

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  • Are we in agreement that the Wyrm gods are or were Ahamkara?

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    • This was stole from reddit. But it's interesting none the less, though the bit about Titans not having solar power I'd now outdated. So. One must wonder, why were the Titans not subject to the Ahamkara? The reason why I'd say Hunters are, I'd one: It's already been proven Hunters leaned how to blink from Warlocks. Therefore, Hunters must posses, to some extent, be able to mimic Warlock powers. Or perhaps be able to affect reality in a lesser way than our magely brothers and sisters in arms. If so, it'd make sense why the Titans aren't targeted or associated with them. Although, even more. If hunters began partaking in the hunt of Ahamkara, then perhaps they were recognized as worthy, and are then gifted with knowledge.

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    • Also maybe a hunter was an ahamkara because in there fragment it says remember you promised

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    • What about the sealed ahamkaras grasps on the hunter maybe they're sealed to contain the power of the ahamkara

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      • NECROBUMP

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      • I speak Hindi and I know that's not what it translates to so your friends a f*cking retard.

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        • Bump

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        • Ahamkara roughly translates to "allahu Akbar" in Arabic.

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          • Edited by Omolon Juice: 7/31/2015 5:38:09 PM
            There's also Ahamkara bones on the exotic Hunter boots "Bones of Eao". The description says "defy extinction.", leading me to believe that they are in fact still in existence. On the Hunter's left knee, you can see what appears to be the top of the cranium of an Ahamkara (present in the Skull of Dire Ahamkara, only this one lacks horns, so it's not a dire one I assume) and also what appear to be either lower jaw segments or mandible-like bones from the Ahamkara's mouth (also in Skull of Dire Ahamkara. On the lower right leg and upper left leg there are vertebrae (present in Young Ahamkara's spine). This is a cool example of an Ahamkara's power, gifting Hunters with wings basically.

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          • Edited by AttackHelicopter: 3/7/2015 6:35:52 PM
            You just stole this off of reddit, the user Blry wrote it out and you just copied and pasted it No one give this guy credit

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          • Exotic Titan chest piece made from Ahamkara. I think a good description would be "They said it impossible, oh bearer mine. But here we are."

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          • Ahamkara is a person because the name of the exotics just say "Ahamkara" not "The Ahamkara."

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            • So the claw on Hawkmoon is from an Ahamkara

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              • So I have a theory about them there is a card that says that new species were found after the traveler appeared right so my theory is that they were or are apart of the traveler. And maybe they were the original speakers.

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                • I've been interested in this topic for a while now. The idea of a dragon that supposedly feasts on reality, where even their own bones carry the life of its former owner on even after death is most intriguing. However, earlier in the post you mentioned that you could see (what is believed) ahamkara flying around on Venus and sometimes around the tower. However, it was confirmed by bungie themselves that those flying creatures are not ahamkaras. They said they are called "bataclysts" or something like that. But let's pretend that they are for a second. It wouldn't make sense for them to hang around the tower. If they themselves are trying to convince everyone else that they had been wiped out, then they wouldn't risk hanging out RIGHT IN FRONT of those who hunted them in the first place. Also, from what the wiki says (I dont know where its source is to make this claim) is that the ahamkara actually were born on earth after the traveler's arrival. So if that IS the case, then I don't see why they'd be on Venus.

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                • Dragons? Darkness and light? Dragon bone armor? The Nine? I could've swore i quite playing skyrim months ago? However to add to this jumbled tail, what if the dragons were killed because they, (much like the serpent in Genesis ) was the one who taught the masses about wielding the light? It was a power housed solely in the traveler, and now the common man, (or exo) can utilize it? Sure lore says the traveler bequeathed it to us in his final moments, but wouldn't it be perfect dogma to take credit for it? As punishment for sharing the travelers secrets the dragons were hunted to extinction, and as penitence for making a deal with them, the first guardians to wield the light were forced to hunt down and kill their teachers? The role of the speaker was established to keep the actual truth in secret and ensure future guardians were focused else where other than the seeking of arcane enlightenment?

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                  • Those "dragons" you see in venus. Bungie confirmed that they were not ahamkara.

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                    • If you go to Venus and load up the eye of a gate lord mission, walk to the first gate you have to destroy. Then if you go to the edge right next to that gate, scope in with a sniper and you can see them flying around, you also hear roars. There is also a burning city to the right, which relates to the dragons

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                      • Guys I think there is a difference between the dire and regular Ahamkara. Look, on Venus there are clearly two different body types of Ahamkara also explains why the two skulls we see are different . Look http://i.imgur.com/UlP3Kb6.jpg Dire and then http://i.imgur.com/By9crRs.jpg regular

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                      • Love the post man, but did anyone besides me think the ahamkara are more of like a large humanoid creature with many dragon-like features, the skull of dire ahamkara seems to me to look humanoid and beast like but doesn't have the traditional shape of a dragon's head, and it's only big enough to fit around a person's head? Just a thought

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                        • The part that says "Dragon that made great promises and was similar to the traveler" on the Warlock grimoire is intriguing. Sounds like there's a God like Ahamkara that can bring the dead ones back to life.

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                        • Edited by TeWrecks: 3/30/2015 8:05:22 AM
                          I think Toland hunted or found an Ahamkara and put its skull on Bad Juju, also the crystal in the awakening mission is surrounded by large bones with the same green smoke like thing on Bad juju, and it is very obvious it belongs to whom.

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                          • I have a feeling... now hear me out... What if the Speaker is an Ahamkara? A young one...? Think about it...

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                            • I say its like ahm-car-ah

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