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Edited by alexwhlr:
10/9/2014 3:54:12 PM
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S'up Longface, big fan, we've talked before, but I'm going to hit you with a hard truth that I think many people with similar complaints should hear.
This isn't the game for you.
This game wasn't designed for you, this game isn't, and will probably never make you happy.
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Dust settled? K. This is, straightfoward, an MMO. It always has been. Granted it is a new type of MMO, but it is one none the less. Now yes, it is unfair Bungie repeatedly said "this isn't an mmo" but, anyone who played the alpha, beta, or followed development at all, knew, this was an mmo. Which means :
- people who play in groups will have tons of fun, for a very long time, despite the lack of content. Because the raids/multiplayer/pve to pvp systems were set up brilliantly.
- People who love grinding (most mmo players) will love this game for a very long time, because repetitive content doesn't bother them
- A majority of the people still playing this game don't feel like you do. They were not expecting a start/middle/end story, they weren't expecting a plethora of content on launch.
So I'm sorry, but this game probably just isn't for you. Now you are still playing it, thats just a sign of how great the mechanics and fundementals of this game are. But you're also a minor celebrity on the forums...and that's probably contributing to why you're still here. Maybe you are the type of player who actually likes MMOs and jsut wasn't expecting this to be one, and will come around to it. But based on your posts...i don't think so.
I also see you haven't completed the Raid, which is far and away the best part of this game.
Now i have much love for you, and your posts, but if you are HONESTLY asking yourself, "why do i play this game?" then you should be equally honest when you answer...."because this game wasn't made for me..." And you cannot blame Bungie for that. They set out to make a game that they would expand over 10 years (coughcough MMO coughcough) and they joined up with a company that has Massive experience doing this (activision owns blizzard). Just like I do not blame EA for making Madden games and me not enjoying them, and I wouldn't expect a Madden player to enjoy World of Warcraft (not saying they can't just saying they're two massively different styles of games).
English
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Edited by Sharne: 10/9/2014 7:31:00 PMI'm not so sure you've ever played a good mmo..... Not to mention, just because an mmo does it, doesn't mean it is right. Most mmos are lazy, sorry to break it to ya. Edit: also, if this is an mmo, then bungie should quit advertising it as otherwise. I've seen a common contradiction when people defend destinys shortcomings. When people say the story is lackluster and underdeveloped, people counter with. "Mmos don't need a strong story!" When the game is missing social aspects and common mmo features, people counter with "but it's [b]not[/b] an mmo! This is a shooter!" So lets all quit pretending the game is perfect and start trying to help bungie make it better, agreed? Agreed.
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No your not wrong. I have played many good MMO's, wow being my favorite. And by no means is it lazy.
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I agree with you. As I said above: the game was made for the community. They will fix things, update things, and change things. The game is still relatively new and they do a pretty good job of informing the community of the updates. They can't do this stuff overnight. Even in the interviews, they stated that the game was meant to form a COMMUNITY of gamers that meet and fight TOGETHER. I love the community and if I played alone I would probably hate the game. However, I am proactive in getting a fire team together and enjoying the raids, strikes, crucible, and just messing around on patrol together.
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Alright, let me stop you right there by saying if this is supposed to me an "mmo" its turned out to be the shittest one to ever come out yet. And its okay cause I don't think it was supposed to me a true mmo in the sense we know but a bridge between the mmo and the casual gamer. No subscription fees, but you'd still get content through patches/big dlc packages. There is no massive community that we can interact with ingame, all that has to be done on community websites (which isn't the biggest deal but hardly an mmo feature to have no communication) plus the limited fireteam size means you can only play with two other people anyway unless you want to raid (which to my understanding is only worth doing once a week unless you do both difficulties) and that only brings the party size to 6, which is hardly what I would consider a "massive multiplayer online game". True, there is rep grinding and material grinding but aside from that I can't think of anything else about this game that screams "mmo" to me. I don't need endless content, and I certainly don't want another halo but frankly this game is a bit of a joke in its current state and I can't bring myself to do any more of this repetitive shit. Maybe in December it'll be better and I'll give it another shot but for now all I might do in this game is VoG once a week with buddies, if that even. As of right now all I can do is farm strikes, farm materials for gear I can't get (and probably won't get considering how many damn shards I get in VoG) and occasionally go into the crucible which might be the worst and most boring part of this entire game. If the crucible was better I'd have a completely different opinion on Destiny, to the point where I might even say it was a great game. Frankly however, with the crucible in its current state and the rest of the game feeling like a stale grind, I'm happy to sit this game out and hope Bungie can fix it. All the promise is there it just needs to be fully realized.
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And let me continue by saying this is suppose to be an mmo...and it is actually really good for a mmo at launch. If you have ever played an mmo on launch (i've played most of them, and all of the major ones). They're all 10x worse than this (this the exception of Guild wars 2). I know what you are trying to say and you bring up what would be valid points, but fact of the matter is this is an mmo, and like ALL MMOS...it is going to take time to build. Come back after december when there are more than 6 strikes and 1 raid, and maybe you will be happy with the less repetitive grind, but that grind will still be there...just with more content.
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Its not an mmo, it has the mmo mini game that is "end game" but in a since, end game is just a formula that a co-op game diablo used a lot. Raiding is not an MMO mechanic but its used heavily by MMO's because most MMO's become lazy trying to keep players playing once they've played through the MMO portion of the game. Instead of trying to keep players in the MMO world, they set up these tread mills that have very slim rewards for long periods of play time. They need to do this so they can keep people playing to buy the MMO expansion that actually expands the MMO portion of the game. WoW completely changed the landscape of raiding. Look at world of warcraft, the vast majority of content is empty, and everyone is in small groups either in an arena, or instance... neither of which are necessary need to be part of an MMO to be a playable game.
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Can I get what your taking, this has been a terrible launch content wise. I've played a lot of mmos none of them started this weak. Now game mechanics side yes it plays great and has few hiccups, but story and content wise its severly lacking. Its fun to play, but no real content worth playing
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Edited by alexwhlr: 10/9/2014 8:04:34 PMI won't go into Aeon, or Perfect World, or The Old Republic and definately won't get started on Elder Scrolls online, but as WoW is most mmo's fan baby i will start there. On vanilla launch there were a decent # of classes, and each one of those had different specs!....Shame 2/3 specs for every class were straight not useable, and for 2 of the classes, all of their specs were completely terrible resulting in you being virtually unable to run ANY of the end game content purely because you picked the wrong class at start. Bungie has 3 classes that are all, incredibly balanced (for the most part) and pvp arguments aside, you can take any class into the raid and do well. Lets go to the maps : WoW had an enourmous playable area, right on launch!....its a shame 75% of it was straight garbage...massive empty zones and if you could someone stop yourself from falling through the world once every couple hours you could maybe pick up a quest from one of the many NPCS'! ...oh wait no you couldn't because a vast majority of them weren't scripted correctly and never appeared dispite the yellow exclamation of new quest being on the map. Now lets talk about its first instances and raids... which were some of the worst designed encounters...ever. Just plain terrible. Right on launch. And I haven't even touched it's pvp, insane lag issues, massive amounts of disconnects, and the fact that it was so borderline unplayable at times, the game almost fell through. It took 2 MASSIVE patches to become ok, and an entire expansion to become great. And that was over 3 years. Believe me if you want (you can go look it up if you dont lol) but in almost all of these areas...Destiny excels. Is the story lacking. Absolutely. But it is in a good place to be built upon, which leaves me and many more people very optimistic. You can have what I'm taking all you want. But if you're going to play many MMO's 7 years into their development and then complain about this one when it's brand new I'm going to disregard your opinion. Destiny is incomplete right now, as I...and most people here would expect. We are all just grateful that the basics are done right, so in a few months, or even a year...this game can be great. What keeps me optimistic is that I see the great things here that I saw in other games except for the most part i see them done better. When wow first launched i was right were you are now : bitching about how terrible and incomplete it was. I mean come on! From the company that made warcraft! 8 years later i still play. Not because of the game it was, but the game it became. I hope you have the same experience with Destiny. I mean i could be wrong and Bungie could do shit in the expansions and the game could go no where. Thats all possible too. I just doubt it.
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Aeon, your comparing bungies supoosed epic to a trions korean grind fest. Come on man. Although they could hsve taken some notes from trions defiance on how to make a console mmo.
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I get that it takes time to build, I' played WoW early on but guess what, it still took me a bit of time to get to level 60. I did loads of quests in that game and enjoyed all of them, since at least I was unlocking new spells on the daily and my epic mount seemed so far away. Granted I was much younger, so things might of just seemed better back in those days but I don't consider Destiny anything better than "mediocre" and here is why: Bungie/Activision couldn't make their -blam!-ing mind up on whether they actually wanted a true "mmo" or a more casual fps experience more similar to a diablo call of duty/halo. What we get is some weird mix-match of both where clearly things were cut or removed to make it, simpler? There was enough for me to do in WoW at launch to tie me over until they made some real content. I know Bungie has plans for more content to be released and it might change my opinion on the game 100%, but until then I just can't play anymore. I'd also like to point out that there are some major communication/social elements that are missing from this game that I'd argue are the main feature of a big mmo. Destiny plays more to me like fps diablo than it does fps world of warcraft, aside from material farming (which is something that I don't mind at all) it doesn't feel anything like what an mmo should feel like to me. If I was able to talk with more people and have larger fireteam sizes I think this game wouldn't feel so limited. I have more than two friends that play Destiny and I think we'd have a lot of fun playing together, but the game limits us in the single player aside from the raid (which I still can't get all my friends in sadly, so someone usually gets left out). All of this I could deal with since we could just go to the crucible together but frankly, the crucible is the worst thing about this game. Its not the single player I'm most unhappy about, its the multiplayer that we've received and if Bungie were just a little more giving with information (I think I understand all the secrecy during development now) I'd be much more understanding. I will come back in December and give it another shot, I just think its sad that they couldn't even keep me for three months with their base game. I played WoW a hell of a lot longer than that before I got bored of it my first go-round.
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There is absolutely nothing "massive" about this game. Be it player count or world sizes, it's all pretty sub-par to standard.
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They sold 500 million units week 1...the player base is staggering. World sizes i will absolutely give you. Its a bit small, now, it wont always be but for now it definately is. But then again, all mmo's start off this way. I'd rather have a smaller start with the quality of enviornment they have than a huge one with nothing in it you know? Might just be me.
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500 million units [i]shipped to retailers.[/i] [b]Not bought by players.[/b] There were still Destiny cases sitting on the shelves of many Gamestops and EB Games and Best Buys post launch. I get why the worlds are small. Open areas with no content are boring. But small areas with repetitive, non-dynamic events, and low player count lobbies aren't any better. I haven't encountered much more than "shoot the thing until it's dead" or "defend for three waves while ghost hacks something". Come on. There are only a precious few gems that stand out.
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No don't get me wrong I understand they were shipped units, thats what i chose my words carefully, but there are some 7 million users per console playing. However - you bring up an excellent point that I happen to agree with very much. The small player lobbies are a huge issue for me. 16 instance towers IMO should be 50+, and you should have access to more of the tower/city. I also agree about the missions : From VoG and missions like Sword of Crota I can clearly see how good missions *could* be, but most are not. You're spot on there.
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Glad we could end this on a mutual note. Good day, sir.
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Edited by Hooligantuan: 10/9/2014 6:04:34 PMMMos have narrative, meaningful interaction with other players, strong character creation and customization, and an immediate wealth of content that enriches the experience beyond its mechanics. Destiny's narrative is malnourished and starved, likely due to Bungie overstretching their ideas into "later" so they can run this for ten years. Kids will grow up, people will find themselves grown adults, or in their thirties, or their forties, fifties, college students will have started families, people will have buried parents, people will have died by the time Bungie wraps all of this up at a snail's pace as egregious and thinly spread as its trail is transparent. There is no meaningful interaction with other players. The social hub of the city is a joke. There is no chat, no voice, and our directional emotes are limited to waving, pointing, sitting down, or doing a stupid, goofy dance; Bungie could take a page out of Blacklight's book and let us choose our emotes. Character Creation is a joke. We pick what our character looks like under the helmet he's going to wear most of the time. Those options were rather limited. The stats of our gear choose what we're going to wear for us. We don't get to use shaders until level 20. Warlocks get a dinky little armband, Titans get a visible and occasionally not dorky sash, and Hunters get a range of mostly cool cloaks. That's it. Those are the only things we can do with our characters' appearances or otherwise distinguish them. Finally, the content. You can seriously burn through all Destiny has to offer, short of the obnoxiously convoluted Raid and all the gear-leveling "Light" business, within a week. Two, definitely. We play one large map per world over and over again for each mission. Seriously, we severely re-tread these maps, and that's before we're grinding bounties, leveling up gear, and playing Strike Lists to death. I don't expect a game to possess infinite variety, but what Destiny does is trying to trick us into thinking there's variety at all just because the maps are large. There's very little to do in them but run around and shoot; there are no remote NPC representatives, there's little exploration, and you just about pray that a Public Event or a Panic Wave will start. If only the game was one long Panic Wave! It doesn't matter how large the maps are when everything we do goes through the same set of localized areas 6-10 times on 4 maps. On all of Earth, only Old Russia was worth playing in? This game is a long-con.
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What you said is mostly true!.....about MMO's that have been out 8 years. When WoW was launched, there was no good narrative, player interaction was shitty, character creation was...a joke, and the immediate content was trash tier. WoW now is all of those things. Have you forgotten that Destiny is a brand new game? A brand new mmo? And many of its systems are excellently crafted by comparission to other mmo's at their launch.
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Your completley wrong, when WoW launched it had more narrative in the starting zones for each class... In fact I played WoW on launch, it was the most absurdly fun experience I've had with gaming in years and I have yet to have that level of fun since. Each zone was almost like its own single player adventure game. There was tons of lore and just fun easter eggs. I played on a pvp server so it was even more insane with groups of people murdering each other all over the place. The game was fun, dynamic, exciting every time I logged in. WoW in its current state is just a bunch of people playing a mini game thats just a fraction of the experience that WoW originally had.
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Funny, cause i led one of the top guilds in WoW on launch - and almost no one was having a great time. If you were playing in a very casual manner i'm sure you could have a great time, but anyone trying to raid or pvp was having a terrible time, as evident by their own community bitching at the time. As a matter of fact the fact that you played on a pvp server and considered it fun is just proof to me that you were logging on for an hour a day maybe - because pvp was so insanely unbalanced its actually funny (with class specific win rates being in the 80's of %s)
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This game picked MMOs' pockets of their worst, grindy, raidy features and isn't any better for it than another shooty game. And Activision CoD'd up the multiplayer too much. It's a Fun Size PvP game pretending it's a regular-sized thing.
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I really don't care how you label it. Fact is, the game is still lacking. I actually LIKE MMO's (I, also, am not sure that this qualifies. Instances and all other things aside, MMO's allow for player to player communication... aside from waving, dancing, pointing, or sitting (not sure sitting actually qualifies as communication). Fact is, I came to destiny following a 6-month, several hours every day, tear on Final Fantasy XIV. You know what, in 6 months, I NEVER ran out of things to DO that were new and unique. Sure, every one of them incorporated some element of grind, but I always got onto that game feeling like "holy -BLAM-, I have so many things I want to get done today." That's after 6 MONTHS of averaging 4-5 hours daily. Im getting bored in Destiny. I log in and ask, "what is there TO do?" Honestly it is the raid that kept me going the last 2 weeks. The raid is AMAZINGLY well designed game play. But why can't there be more of that creativity elsewhere? Why does it only exist for a gem, placed just out of reach for many players? (BTW Bungie... running the raid and being the only person to get absolutely nothing besides shards and energy is a major feel-bad, and IMO should never happen.) The fact is, if this were an MMO, it would be a crappy one. People didn't want "a good start" with a sticker that says "come back in a year for something complete" slapped onto the side.
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HEAR,HEAR
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This is not an MMO. For one, massive multiplayer online games are open world to their core. If we went out in the world and played missions on our own without deviating from the base map until we ventured to the next planet, that would be close to it. But it's nowhere near that. WoW is used to much as an example because it pretty much IS the example now. There's no other game that compares, and Destiny sure as hell is nothing like it. There's no "new MMO" style to it. Destiny is at its core an RPG that lack more fundamentals than a DnD game without a DM. Don't fool yourself; you seem pretty disillusioned.
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As an 7 year WoW player, and someone who has been in the top 100 guilds on 7 different MMO's, let me assure you...MMO's are not open world to their core. You are straight wrong. There is a new MMO style. Console MMO's based on FPS are very new, especially one that focus's on RPG core, and CLEARLY, via the lack of story, and the repetitive grind, and the raids, this is not focused on being an RPG. That is like saying "I bought this strawberry and it looks/tastes/behaves/is oddly similar to a banana, but because i was expecting a strawberry there is no way this could be a banana, it's just a shitty strawberry. You sound like the delusional one to me. No disrespect.
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7 years? Character name and the other games you played is what I would like to know. I'll raise you on your seven with my twelve years dating all the way back to Star Wars Galaxies and Runescape all the way to WoW MC and AQ 40 through and through. Being in a top 100 raiding guild means nothing; being a top 100 player is everything. There are tons of people who can claim guild status, and hell I've been in top FIVE guilds but I don't say that because I was in them and I only cleared to a top 500 of content. And MMO is clearly defined: Massive. Multiplayer. Online. Where do we see this aspect in the game? There is nothing massive about it, nor is there a heavy multiplayer style except for crucible and raids (I can solo strikes faster by myself than with someone else with me because they wait behind and attract adds as well as fire toward me). The only thing this game really has in that term, along with every new game out today is online, which is the only way any game will make itself popular unless it has enough content to make up for it, which Destiny lacks but at least it's online. Also the analogy you used doesn't make sense. You bought a strawberry that is exactly like a banana, but are criticizing it because you failed to see that it's a banana. That's just called stupidity. Borderlands is not an MMO, Diablo is sure as hell not an MMO, and Destiny is definitely not an MMO through and through. Just because YOU think it's an MMO doesn't dissuade fact that there are MMOs already out there with already established paradigms that give a basis as to what an MMO should be so as not to confuse it with games like diablo, or Borderlands, or Destiny. A better analogy would be this: you have a cherry (Destiny), which is sweet but small, with a hard center pit that leaves you with the reminder that it was fleeting sweetness, but you can buy more to satisfy your taste. Then you have a vegetable GARDEN (the MMO) which is filled with just vegetables (not fruits like Destiny) that all have their own tastes, their own ways to grow, and their own styles of growing. Of course there are different kinds of cherries, but in comparison to a vegetable garden, the size and content of such a mass will pale a game like Destiny; why do you think WoW has lasted for TWELVE YEARS? Because they didn't plan on it, they just kept being a vegetable garden and giving people food, and to this day they still live by a "expansion by expansion" style of the future. As for Destiny: well, people are going to get tired of cherries if they keep eating too many, and there are a lot more fruits out there to satisfy their lust. That's a proper analogy. And I stand behind my statement: [i]you are disillusioned[/i], and I mean disrespect. I have every bit of knowledge to know exactly what I'm talking about and I'm tired of people who think they're right because they "browsed" another game and assume they're some guru in video games. You have seen nothing.
