So if I made a game and told you that the story was "phenomenal", every item you get is unique and there over "millions of customizable options". When you play it will you be disappointed that none of the content I talked about so highly isn't there? I could go on for hours, I'm not mad, I didn't trade in my copy, I'm not playing it anymore, I still enjoyed the game for the simple fact of GAMEPLAY MECHANICS. But the fact that we're alright with buying a game 2x over is ridiculous and this is why company's will continue to give us a games that lack content just so they can make so more money.

I would say 'caveat emptor'. You ever see the cover of a paperback? Every story is an epic masterpiece. I am all out of sympathy for people who buy the hype about unreviewed, unreleased software. I mean I guess go ahead and be angry (I know, you aren't, but then what? hold Bungie's feet to the fire? What fire?) but I don't see what you are going to accomplish. Edit: I actually think the game is worth $60 but then I didn't buy all the hype, so I'm satisfied. I think the amount of content delivered is reasonable and I'm fine with buying the DLC to continue the storyline. I certainly don't see any reason like the OP to do some sort of investigation into "what could have been" because it really *couldn't* have been - given the publisher, the developer and the market, they made decisions for the reasons they did and things couldn't have turned out any other way. If this destroyed the game, or provided less value than people think it should have, the onus is on them to say no, its not worth my money. But thats not what they did. They bought it and now they are railing against what they see is them being cheated. Well, I don't feel cheated, and the only difference between me and them is when I was following the development, I saw everything I was shown as "concept" instead of "final product." I can not take it seriously when *Activision* tells me they are going to give me a phenomenal game. Really? When have they EVER produced anything *phenomenal*. Nobody can predict what is going to be phenomenal, certainly not a marketing department, certainly not the people most heavily invested in the game who have drunk their own kool-aid.

So even though you've been following the game since development, it seems your content with the game as it is, after they threw a huge curveball at us and stripped the game down for DLC. You're also telling me that the rhythmic "hold this spot down until dinklebot hacks the door, repeat 3x then fight a boss that's just a bigger, re-skinned, bullet sponge of an enemy is worth while and that's worth the $60. That's not the worse part either. I like this game and the fact that I post things on the forum are a clear example that I want the game to excel where it falls short. This game has the right ingredients but the wrong recipe. Me and you are the same I've been keeping up with the game since development and should've put 2 and 2 together when I played the alpha and the beta, but I let the sheer fun of the mechanically driven gameplay to cloud my judgement and for that I will admit STUPID decision on my part. You're adamant about your opinion and probably think of me as a "complainer" but realistically I just want the overall destiny experience to be better, without negative feedback that actually associates with the flaws in game, then we can expect half-ass work left open for even more purchasable DLC. I do agree that most people went into this game blind and expected way too much without doing research. I guess you'll also defend alien colonial Marines that they do t owe their fans anything, they completely false advertised the game and gave people the old bait and switch, same thing with Watch dogs, so if we are a gaming community that doesn't say anything, other companies will say "Hey remember what Destiny did, they retailed their game at $60 and just pumped out a substantial amount of DLC to fill in the blanks, let's jump on this DLC bandwagon, 1-2-3 CORPORATE!!"

"My father -blam!-ed up bad but I shouldn't expect him to do better when he's always been better than this in the past."

[quote]if the product is lacking in content, which is arguable, then you shouldn't have spent your money on it, [/quote] I agree 100% with everything you said up until this statement. Primarily because it's not a fair statement to make in this case. All the research anyone could have done, vid docs, dev notes, press releases, developer history, pre-views and expectations from other games within the same genre all point toward a game rich with content. And whether the rumors are true or not, something catastrophic happened during the development that caused the content to be cut. So it's not fair to say to customers, "you shouldn't have spent money on it if content was missing" when all the evidence leading up to the release points in the opposite direction. After that I go back to agreeing :)

Dont forget they had a embargo on any reviews until last moment, and most people couldnt play until day one even with review copies because ther servers werent up or wouldnt allow it. As if they knew if everyone knew before how watered down and chopped up it felt they would have had less sales.

I haven't. That was worrisome. People should stop pre-ordering and wait for the day one reviews. I'm not going to say this hasn't been mismanaged at the level of marketing and communication, but I am going to say that you had the opportunity to go in with all the facts, and had you waited for the facts, and went in anyway, you would not be nearly as disappointed and angry as the people who guzzled every drop of Destiny propaganda the company put out to drive preorders, expected the moon and the stars instead of "a shooter with MMO elements", and you would have a lot more recourse if the product wasn't as advertised on the box cover. As it is, as a shooter with MMO elements its fine. If you expected the deep, branching storyline of an epic space opera --- you might be a little disappointed. Should've waited to buy it.

mmo aspects are barely there, besides grenades, specials, melee animation and clothes I feel no real difference. The cloak, band and belts could have special class buffs, the classes could be set up so that curtain weapons have better pve advantages. They could use their own story archs or artifact weapons. Artifact weapons like extrodinary weapons only class specific with a series of missions and requirements. Hunters sparrows should have a scrabbed or personal look as if they were plated and weathered, speacial touches to feel like its been in the waste lands or meant to be out there longer. Titans should have bulkier looking sparrows for their added armor weight, glimor more while being heavily armored and almost new look to them with bright pride full looking colors. Warlocks should have experimental looking sparrows, or marked with runes. Movement animations all feel the same, hunters should have a cowboy swagger to his walk, and a light step to how he runs, stealthful and careful. Titans should have a posture of noble or knightly hood about how they walk, proud and tall, while running should be heavy and like a line backer or bull charging. While warlocks should have light foot steps as if a higher statues or if they could walk on water, while their running should be as if they are using their powers to bound forward at great speeds. ehh... just feels so copy paste and the only choice difference is if I want to punch, stab or force push, or if I want to use a special of some sorts :/

Nice touches on making classes a little more different, i hope bungie can see this and do something with this because you're right, classes are a little too similar, different yes, but to similar

Yeah, I disagree with this. When a product is in development, it doesn't exist; its not finished. Anything about it could change. Anything they show you at that point is hypothetical, as in this feature *could* make it into the release, or not. Relying on pre release footage, the opinions of individual developers, completely hypothetical statements about things and intentions that may or may not make it into what goes onto store shelves is once again, your responsibility, because you can equally just wait and see what the product actually is. Maybe they didn't make it clear enough, maybe the hype machine got a life of its own, but you are under no obligation to believe everything said about something that doesn't even exist. " something catastrophic happened during the development that caused the content to be cut" And you don't know exactly what that is, even if it is, and they are under no obligation to tell you, and it may have been completely unavoidable, so arguing about how they handled it is pointless.

Nobody is arguing. At least I'm not, I'm trying to have a civil conversation. I see your point, let me phrase mine differently. For the record I agree that a developer does not owe us every piece of content they produced. Same with movie studios. Hell Michael Jackson had tons of unreleased content that money grubbers are trying to cash in on. Some stuff hits the cutting room floor, that's the process. Usually what happens is that that stuff on the cutting room floor is either replaced with material that fits better or other content is rearranged in the narrative. It's not the case with Destiny. Stuff was cut out and for whatever reason, nothing was added or rearranged. When I go to a movie, I expect to see a full movie. When I buy a game that purports to have a good story (and in this case backed by the COO of the company saying they want it to sit on shelves next to Lord of the Rings) I expect the game to have a good story. Or at least passable. And it doesn't. We know that now. So you can't just say that you shouldn't have spent your money on it because you knew content was missing when we in fact didn't. That's all I'm saying. At least at first. The word is out now.

You've played the game for 32 hours, have one character to level 25. If you don't enjoy the game, why did you spend so much time playing it? Particularly the non-story part of the game in the crucible? So under what regime can you say this isn't a full game? By what measure? It *is* a complete game. Someone can always say I hoped there was more and I'm disappointed. Thats perfectly reasonable. Maybe it isn't worth what they are charging for it (buyer's remorse). But this idea that you were robbed of a full game, I don't see it. You've spent almost two days being entertained by this "incomplete game". What do you want from them? An admission that they cut a lot? The reasons behind the cutting? The answer is probably "to deliver on time we weren't able to finish all the content we had planned originally - it created too many dependencies and we had to streamline it." ANd I suppose thats terrible, but thats life, and ultimately it was up to you to either accept what they gave you or not buy it.

Help me to understand where you are coming from. Where did I say I wasn't enjoying it? What does my playing the crucible have anything to do with the missing story components? Because I play it I can't be critical? I never made any claim of "being robbed". If I did, please quote where I said that. The way you are coming across it sounds like you are trying to be deliberately argumentative. I don't need Bungie to say anything, because I'm talking to you. I'm stating that where it stands now, content that you would expect to see from any type of press release shows that there is/was some kind of story present. The point I would like you to understand is that it is not fair to say to gamers that it is their fault for essentially not knowing what they were getting when everything about this game was pointing in the opposite direction.

"I'm stating that where it stands now, content that you would expect to see from any type of press release shows that there is/was some kind of story present. The point I would like you to understand is that it is not fair to say to gamers that it is their fault for essentially not knowing what they were getting when everything about this game was pointing in the opposite direction." The story is entirely subjective, there IS a story present, it comes down to whether its a good story or not. I have opinions about this but thats all they are. So they delivered a story, a story that will hopefully be fleshed out in the future with more lore and content. But I keep coming back to this fact. Gamers can not be faulted for not knowing what they were getting when *everything* was pointing in the direction of ... [a huge story]. Of course they can be. Gamers pre-ordered the game, failed to wait for reviews, and took as gospel pre-release footage (this will be in the initially released product!) , agonized over every word dropped on the bungie blog about what was planned for a game that they anticipate to spend the next decade working. It would all be here *today*. Gamers, if that is the case, are not very bright. And Bungie obviously overhyped the game, probably under pressure to do so and they probably believed in it themselves. "Where did I say I wasn't enjoying it? What does my playing the crucible have anything to do with the missing story components?" You said you expected it to be "finished". I took that to be disappointment, in that you wanted more. I said you can always say I would have liked more. But thats not an unfinished product, and your play time attests, you are getting value out of it. Its not broken. As for Bungie, I am genuinely curious what people want. At this point, after listening to them, it sounds like a refund, but I doubt thats it.

It sounds like you are saying there is nothing wrong with bait and switch tactics. Which is illegal. If I say I have sports cars for $1000 for sale and you show up to old beat up vw bugs with modified exhaust for $2000 its not different than advertising more in a game than what will be delivered. Don't get caught up on the prices if set for this example.

No. What you are saying "content subject to change" only covers what is shown. When they make direct statements about content and its not present in any way, shape, manner or form its called misleading. Its also the basis of detrimental reliance law suits based on the con method known popularly as "bait and switch". They can't make representations and then not fulfill them. There is not enough evidence to support a lawsuit and there never will be, but there is enough for people to figure it out and cry foul.

Well, I haven't seen any of those statements of the form of "This will be included in what we will deliver in the base game." If you have, and you feel they mislead you, then please consult an attorney, and may the wind be at your back. But as you say, its weak sauce, so if they said this stuff "might appear in the game at some point", its nobody's fault but yours for being disappointed.

There are MANY statements made in MANY video blogs, interviews and articles. It all goes to integrity. Its not about a lawsuit. Its about the Bungie name and reputation. What you don't seem to get is that for many of us we feel mislead by Bungie and for good reason and they have done nothing to date to dissuade that feeling. Frankly their silence just compounds it. Its doing irreparable harm to the company and future sales, no matter how you personally view it.