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Edited by platelamp:
9/30/2014 1:29:20 AM
278
Thoughts on Destiny Controversy from an Employee in the Industry -DONE-
I have deleted the original post contents. My goal was to inspire those who might be taking Destiny's faults to extreme levels to think a little bit more about the reasons why they may feel deceived. Only to receive too much trolling, disbelief and questioning my credibility into oblivion.
I am enjoying the game thoroughly, and hope Bungie resolves many large quarrels with the game.
Better itemization would be nice
Better communication
Better matchmaking
Variety in missions
These are my top complaints.
It was interesting to say the least, to those that responded positively, and constructively, I thank you.
Someone commented earlier who said it best what I was trying to convey:
"While perhaps they have not phrased it sufficiently, we believe that the author is mainly objecting to the rampant hyperbole and vilification that permeates so much of the objection to the game. Destiny may not meet one's expectations and we firmly believe that everyone should be free to assess the games merits personally, but the constant bombardment of tirades marking Destiny as 'the worst game ever' or asserting that no one should like this game are both misleading and presumptuous. All these rabid screeds do is act as noise, drowning out the valid reasoned complaints."
English
#Destiny
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4 RepliesPromised content > amount of work. Someone could build me a house out of wood that took years.... But They forgot to put termite protection... House doesn't matter now that it's being eaten away .... Sure you can fix it but the level of satisfaction is much lower. Point is they gave us a game that was eaten away from its original glory.... And I'm sure the termites where activision
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thanks for the topic. i agree with everything you have said.
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Agreed. Criticism is healthy, and even helpful. Just do it in a mature fashion.
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Hear hear!
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7 RepliesJust my 2-cents. I appreciate where the developer sits in this equation, particularly creative developers not ones born to make dough. Bungie was a creative developer, and likely still retains many of those aspects. They are in a tough spot because the game industry is not the same industry they started in. I have been a gamer since the 80's, I have seen and watched the industry and its community grow, safe from my computer and console, sofa pop (now beer) and chips in hand. For better or worst the industry has unequivocally changed, Destiny is just the latest marker in this changing environment. Old gamers like me, and old soul young gamers, remember or dream of a time when games could be this wonderful immersion into another reality. The potential was limitless, designers had the reigns of most games, their vision coming to us mostly as they planned. Now, games are so expensive to make, those dreamers cannot deliver such games unless they cut it down indie style, where polish suffers. This happened because the old game market was a niche, we where a small group that voted with our wallets and companies lived and died by it. Now the game market is massive, the general public doesn't want unpolished games with wild concepts and vision, they want polished, triple A titles, much like the Hollywood blockbuster movie, predictable and fun. To get this developers had to partner with large publishers, deep pockets that could fund the title and dream. Those publishers (and now many developers) work for a bottom line, the stock holders. This means revenue, in particular record sales as the greed of the stock holders isn't satisfied unless the company has exceeded last quarters profits. The money in play here is huge, and the backlash they fear is the stock holder and not the consumer (in so much as the consumer impacts the bottom line, they are concerned). What we have with Destiny is an attempt to play that line, develop the dream huge in scope, yet appease the stock holder with massive revenue. A huge part of this is DLC, with EA announcing they want to sell 1 billion dollars in DLC this year alone, you can bet your a$$ that Activision has the same or greater goal. This means that content was cut, it had to be for corporate reasons to make DLC, sell and reach those targets for the stock holders. When it comes to triple A games, gone is the day of a fully completed and encapsulated product, companies won't afford it because they want that money. The market will come to expect that revenue, and even if profitability is maintained, the loss of overall profit will sink the stock price, and cause massive backlash from investors. Welcome to the new world order, if you do like it, don't buy it, its the only vote you have.
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3 RepliesAll the bitching and moaning aside, I have easily got $60 of playtime and enjoyment out of this game. It's set up to be episodic with users paying for new content and to move further into the story. I'd rather have that than no DLC and it basically collecting dust once I complete all the content. Why am I still working for better gear? To do future content. The story is fine, it's just that we've only finished the first chapter in a long saga. There are lots of unanswered questions. Good, something to look forward to.
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2 RepliesI wish people could just love Destiny for what it [b]is[/b], not hate it for what it [b]isn't[/b]. Why is that so hard? Sure, I hoped for more story, more locations; sure it's not perfect. But it's the most damn fun I've had for $60 in a long, long time. I'm glad you hit on the attention to detail; I am constantly discovering more things that make me appreciate that love that Bungie put into it. The haters that say the game has no soul? It's there... you just haven't taken the time to see (or hear) it. The soundtrack is freaking amazing. Destiny is a fine wine that needs to be swirled, bouquet appreciated, sipped slowly... sure, you could chug it and get a little buzz, but you'll enjoy it a lot more if you just take the time. Bungie is in this for the long haul; they are already starting to make improvements based on community feedback. It will only get better, and that to me is truly exciting when it's as good as it is already. The critics who trash it for what is missing (or what we were led to believe would be there) have a point, but when you focus on what isn't there it's easy to take for granted how excellent and polished a game it already is. Just my .02 :)
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3 RepliesIf they promise something a year or 2 ago, never retract their statement, and it doesn't make it in then it's shitty. Also, they didn't make this game for people, for the consumer. They made it for profit, otherwise we wouldn't have locked content. And lies. Let's not forget lies. Let's look at a real world example. I tell my buddy that I have a car for sale. It's fast, can go on and off road, and is super amazing for the price. A year later, when he pays for the car, I tell him shit happened. I decided that going anywhere on and off road was too fun, so I replaced the tires with walmart ones. Also, the suspension needed to be worse so that he couldn't even think about bumps. I glued the skylight shut, and scratched all the names off the car. Then, I tell him I'll paint it again, leaving the tires, skylight and suspension shitty, for just 2 payments of almost half the cost of the car. Not to mention he still has to buy the car. If you think that, or bungies shit fest game are acceptable, then I have some air to sell you.
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This thread is just white noise
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1 Reply[u]Here you go, OP. This is my comment from the other thread:[/u] I try to present logic to many "complain" threads, but you cannot communicate with those who do not live by logic. The game is flawed, no doubt, but in my books that = room for growth. I cannot think of a single game that came out perfect on release day. Even if such perfection existed, it would quickly grow stale because it would be stagnant as there is no room for improvement and change. The truth is that the devs can never appease the masses because everyone wants different things out of their gaming experience. Some are here for the gun-play and shooter aspect, some are here chasing after the loot, while others are here simply to enjoy the scenery. It's hard to find that happy medium where every type of Destiny player can co-exist in harmony. My philosophy has always been the same: you can choose to enjoy your investment or let it become a source of resentment and frustration. At the end of the day, the choice is yours. No matter how much you complain about or praise this game on the forums, only time will reveal what's in store for it down the road. Do not waste energy on which you have no control over (such as dev decisions. of course our voice may somewhat influence their decisions but ultimately it's their call). Instead, focus on what you do have control over...our attitude towards this game (that includes expectations, criticisms, acknowledgments etc). If you do truly wish for this game to improve, then it would be wise to use constructive criticism rather than the conventional "whoever cries the loudest" approach. If one thing I'd like to see added, it would be a ticket system where players can submit anything from in-game bug reports to suggestions.
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5 RepliesEven though I applaud your effort into creating this well-spoken topic, You forget one simple point: you can spend years dressing up a piece of shit. But in the end, it will still be shit.
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6 RepliesHave you ever slowly pulled the trigger back in the habdcannon and watched as your character tightened their grip and the hammer started cocking? Or how the slide on semi auto weapons pulls back to load in another bullet? That's some real attention to detail.
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Great post
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Edited by Matu Flp Krawfe: 9/29/2014 9:07:37 PMWell I would give bungie the benefit of the doubt if we hadn't already been through this process with every one of their post Halo CE games, save for perhaps Halo 3. They have an awful habit of overpromising and under-delivering and that isn't just referring to their marketing campaigns but their games presentations and aspirations. I haven't paid attention to Bungie's PR since perhaps ODST and yet with Reach and Destiny I'm absolutely astounded by how bad these games are. Now of course you can argue "well they're functional and have a lot of graphical detail" but unless you consider a technical demo for a piece of entertainment to be one and the same thing Destiny's polish can't be taken for a sign of quality. Its often an indicator in this industry (ie. for AAA content) but polish doesn't compensate for bad writing, poor structure, and derivative gameplay. Of course sucking can have other merits (see. MST3K) but I doubt Bungie can get by for long continuing with this "Plan 9 from Outer Space" approach to game design. Eventually they're going to loose the blind mob appeal generated with their earlier successes and force people to rationally reconsider their support for their company. That may take another couple of flops still, but I think its pretty disrespectful to the standards of the MMO and FPS genres to try to placate the reaction occurring to this game. Without that extreme response the developer may be able to justify to itself that continuing with their approach is valid, as they've been able to do over the past half-decade given an insufficient response to the design and conceptual issues of ODST and Reach (which we're seeing manifested now in greater form with Destiny). That's bad in itself because it enables bad games to be made, but through the irrespective mob support of those games its deficiencies may become new and expected standards for the genre (as we've seen before through Halo CE's success. Some pretty basic standards of the 90's PC shooter, referring to AI and level design most of all, were lost after Halo, despite its limited multiplayer format, was able to establish itself and become a new standard without addressing its deficiencies [because what it did right and the mob appeal that created was more than enough to [i]compensate for[/i], not rectify, its technical problems].) Basically there's a time to be reasonable, and a time to let the mob have its pitchforking. We're definitely at the latter stage. Its serves a purpose in society.
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Edited by anthrax99: 9/29/2014 9:04:35 PMI'm not an employee in the industry and also a hot single mother with big tits who once banged a Bungie employee in the Champaign room at my club and I like to play games so you should take my word for it when I say you are all a bunch of meanies with shitty opinions and I have rock solid credentials to back me up.
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I like the game. It looks beautiful. All these children complaining have no idea what they have. If all of the current gen consoles suddenly disappeared and everyone had to go back to playing pong I wonder what theyd say? "Bungie Bungie, please make us something more awesome than pong."
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4 RepliesI want to see the reaction of people who have been having mental and physical breakdowns over the so-called "cut" content when they come face-to-face with a director's cut of a movie. "What? You mean Paramount locked content from the new Transformers flick just so they can sell the Director's Cut down the line? Tom, you get on Reddit; Dick, you get on the official forums; Harry, you contact the Better Business Bureau. The internet needs to know of this injustice! Fool me once, shame on — shame on you, Mr. Bay. Fool me — you can't get fooled again!"
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8 Replies*yells from really far away* superman 64
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1 ReplyI'm going back to playing Chrono Trigger like i was before this game came out Peace.
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13 RepliesEdited by Guardian1050: 9/29/2014 7:43:59 PMWhy do game testers always believe they have some privileged point of view regarding video game development? Simply test playing a game at various points along its development arc does not make one an expert on video game development in much the same way that participating in evo/devo psych experiments does not make one an expert on evo/devo psych research methodology. Point: If you want an opinion on game development, ask a game developer. If you want an opinion on on evo/devo psych research methodology, ask an evo/devo research psychologist...
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1 ReplyYou get it. Thanks for making this post so I didn't have to.
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Frankly, the fact that they tried matters little in the market. The much of the community feels burned on this launch. I would argue that they feel this way for good reason. The issue isn't with the art, the mechanics, the game play. The problem pure and simple is content, there simply was not enough for launch. Now there could be various reasons that certain things were cut as you outlined. However, the community has identified that there is strong possibility that it was cut so it could be resold to us. Some of these folks are starting to make some compelling cases too. I would like to also deal with the matter of the game will be developed over ten years. This does not give Bungie the right to serve up a half finished game. You know how I know it is half finished. Because it's contemporaries have delivered a much better product. There are many games in this vein which have already provided superior products out of the gate. The most notable would be Gearbox's Borderlands 1 & 2. But in this case Borderlands delivered a much more compelling experience. These games were great >without< DLC. They both felt like a full experience from start to finish: the story was complete, there was enough content, and rewards were plentiful if not meaningful. Destiny fails in all three categories. The DLC in Borderlands enhanced the game, it gave it longevity and made a return trip to the game compelling. When I look at how Borderlands was handled versus what I got from Destiny, I just feel disappointed. I didn't get a complete game, I didn't get enough content to cover more than a few days of playing. I didn't get a compelling story to make me give a crap about this universe. And now I am looking at the DLC as a paid for entry to content that really should have been delivered from the start. If Bungie wants to retain the good will of it's player base then. It needs to shore up these deficiencies and it needs to do so quickly.
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1 ReplyI'm not entirely sure what everyones problem with this game is! Yeah it's a little bit short in the story mode department and lacking in a solid story (although you can understand what's going on without 2 hours worth of cutscenes). It's a MMO and at the end of the day that means grinding the same content for hours to get better gear and weapons etc. Maybe the console generation are not ready for this sort of repetetive gameplay. I mean, playing the same 10 or so maps over and over again on Call of Duty Ghosts isn't repetetive at all now is it? You can try and use the 'every game is different' excuse but it won't wash with me when you have Crucible, which is basically CoD/Halo, right down to the game modes included. They have given us daily and weekly challenges with caps on marks earnt, similar to WoW in that respect, a full list of bounties to fulfill every 18 hours and plenty of scope for farming public events and the reagents for upgrades. They have patched once already and a new patch is coming soon that guarentee's purple loot will become purple items etc. They will support this game for quite some time so things will get bigger and better. My only gripe is that the raiding requires you to get 5 other people from your friends list all on at the same time to compete in the end game raids. This is annoying but before the raid finder came for WoW late in the 4th expansion (i think) it was the same there, it's the way MMO's work. They will eventually implement a raid finder style system i hope but until then i guess i will have to hope i can get a team together. To summarise, i have played this game through the whole beta, then everyday since release day and not once have i got bored or needed to even think of playing another game. For me it means i've got my moneys worth already. I'm used to a generation of games that, if you were lucky, gave you 8 hours of gameplay at most. I've played maybe 50 hours on this game already and i'll go and raid tonight if everyone is online. If you can't get into Destiny, you can trade it in and get a good deal on Shadow of Mordor, Driveclub, Fifa 15 or CoD AW. It's going to be a good few months for ps4 :)
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Please excuse my ignorance, but what is so bad about this game? What is it that Bungie promised that they didn't deliver? I haven't totally finished the story yet, but I don't think it is terrible. It did seem a bit slow starting, but seems to be gaining momentum as I progress. Looking back at Halo 1 I don't think it was much different. I don't remember it really grabbing my attention with the story. Although, the Halo story has developed into one of the best ever in my opinion. I enjoy being able to build my character and tune him the way I like. The level of customization for character abilities is great. I think people have to remember this is the beginning of something bigger. I think this game has a lot of potential to evolve into something epic. Also, isn't $60 the average price for any new game? I have seen a ton of $60 games that were terrible. I think this game is far from terrible. I am enjoying it. With all that said, I was disappointed the game was only single player. I was hoping my son and I would be able to play the game together. But it looks like to do that I will have to get another console, and copy of the game. That hurts.
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Yeah I was just utterly flabbergasted when I saw the lambasting of the game. Agreed that providing well thought and SPECIFIC critique and suggestions is the only way to really make a difference in your experience. I also can't believe that while people come and go the 'soul' of a company like Bungie has been pretty clear with the Halo franchise... they WILL listen to their customers (gamers) and react accordingly. While I can't say I'm in real favor of the whole 'must be online to play' paradigm it does give the opportunity for the game developer to bring new content and upgrade existing content rapidly and across all players. So... good and bad like many things. I will say, however, I really do wish there was at least the basic 'single player campaign' available via 'local resources' (i.e. disk and DLC into the console permanently) because on occasions in the past I have brought a console system on trips to the mountains, etc. where there is no Inet connectivity whatsoever.
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So basically, you're the night janitor talking about how the secretary's coffee-making skills are SO AMAZING that even at 11 pm it tastes like it was made 10 minutes ago.
