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9/19/2014 3:30:35 AM
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I will admit to having been critical on several points. I do not post critical information to simply be critical, nor do I have a deep dislike of the game. if I disliked the game I would have less than the 20-30 hours logged in playing that I do currently. Instead, I post in the forum with the intent of giving Bungie feedback. That is what the forum is for, in one respect. They need to see where their vision has succeeded and where it isn't translating as well. Holding coarse in rough waters is only a good idea so long as it doesn't lead you deeper into the storm. So, let's look at some of my own thoughts on the game;
Game mechanics, player characters, and gear - I have no complaints at all with any of this. There is sufficient gear options to give you a lot to work with, and while I can't say everything is inspirational an unique, I also can't say that this is a bad thing. These aspects of the game were very well done, and I totally congratulate Bungie on them.
Story and NPC characters - here, the first installment of Destiny is lacking. We meet the Speaker twice, at the beginning and ending of the story, yet he serves no other purpose. Why? He should have been a more involved character in our story (assuming we, as players, are intended to be the focus 'hero' of that story). This was a missed opportunity. The Queen of the Reef, her brother, and the mysterious exo all served their purposes well, and I have no complaints on their writing or their use. Good job! But... in our journey you have 4 background characters? And the story itself, so far, is extremely short. Bungie had a very long time to work on this game, yet the story could have been thrown together in a matter of months. This is sub-par. Yes, I did enjoy what there was of the story, but that story should have been far deeper. I understand that further story arcs will be released (or at least one more story arc. I simply assume there will be more after), and perhaps this will flesh out what was presented originally.
PvP/PvE balance - in this area, I feel that the balance is horribly off. Destiny is a game that is 'balanced' (one might even say over-balanced) to favor PvP. If Bungie's intent was to create a PvP game, they have succeeded. If their intent was to attract a broad and varied audience, however, then in my eyes while they have not failed, they also have not succeeded. "The game starts at level 20". This has been said very often. Very well, let us examine. Every single Exotic bounty features a very heavy Crucible requirement. For level 20+ legendary gear, there is only one PvE vendor, but 4 PvP vendors. It is far faster and easier to level up in the Crucible, gaining reputation and marks, than it is for the Vanguard (this is not simply my opinion, other people have said the same). Again, if Bungie wanted to make a PvP game, they have succeeded and they need do nothing more. If, however, they want to attract and keep PvE people, then there needs to be another, less PvP focused way to earn what you need for upgrades. (For those who point to Vanguard Strikes, remember this - a strike takes around 20-30 minutes. At level 20, you can get 2 Vanguard Marks for that 20-30 minute investment. In Crucible you can get 2-3 marks per game. That means a Vanguard player can get 2 marks and a Crucible player can get 4-9 marks in the same time period, depending on the player's level of skill)
So yes, I do want to see Destiny succeed. And yes, I do enjoy most of the game. It is, however, not perfect, and if Bungie wishes to retain at the very least me as a player, then some of these things should be addressed in some manner at some point in time. Otherwise there are other games which will be releasing soon (Borderlands) that will draw me away, and it will then be up to Bungie to prove that there is any reason why I should return.
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Actually loved this feedback. Addresses the main issues i had with the game. Lets also add in that strikes take 30-40mins play and give u at lets say tiger level around 25rep... where as a simple 2-5minute patrol gives you 10-25rep. and lets not include the events.....
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Well, I was using the second tier of Vanguard because at level 20 you need to get light to advance in level, so this is tied to level progression. If you wish to analyze the various tiers: Level 18 Vanguard - reputation but no marks. This is as opposed to Crucible, where you can earn Crucible marks and reputation both Level 20 Vanguard - cited above. Level 22 Vanguard- Marks increase to 3. Assuming that one plays "at their level", which is to say a level 22 playing a level 22 strike, then you are quite correct in saying it could take 30-40 minutes. Assume the minimum of 30 minutes, which gives Crucible 3 matches. This means 3 Vanguard marks balanced against 6-9 Crucible marks. Level 24 Vanguard- Marks double for a value of 6. While this is good, consider that Crucible remains unchanged. So a player has to level up to 24 through the acquisition of gear just to earn what a Crucible player will earn in the same time period as a [u][i]minimum[/i][/u] value. I did not address the reputation values above, but as you can see the way Destiny heavily favors PvP with marks would carry over to the reputation side as well. Of course, you can also buy Faction equipment, which means everything that you do goes into PvP, which further increases your rapid reputation gains. There is no corresponding equipment for converting PvP experience into PvE reputation, although from what I have observed over the years such equipment would not be required as few PvE players are that heavily involved in PvP. I have no problem with the Patrol reputation gains, because I think I understand the purpose of Patrol. It gives you something to do while farming for world resources, as well as gives the casual player something to do when they only have a short period to play. If one is only looking for reputation then patrols are, in fact, far more efficient, but you cannot gain Vanguard marks while doing so. Of course, you are also going to encounter world events, which will give you the resources you require to upgrade high level gear, so this is beneficial, if totally and completely random.
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Nice. Customer feedback with out sounding like a douche bag. Well done. I agree on all your points.
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Thank you. I feel that proper feedback should be stated clearly as possible and without rancor. The object is to state your case in a concise and adult manner, which is more likely to be read and understood by those who monitor the forums. Ranting is unprofessional and does little to convince anyone that what you have to say has merit, and doing so most often only serves to undermine any argument that you have to make. =)
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exactly. I understand some people aren't going to like the game, but their points of view are easily dismissed when their feedback starts with "You suck monkey balls" or some other less than adult approach. It also proves why the social features are left to your own fire team instead of public chat. I also do not think people understand the network infrastructure required for large scale audio communication. If they're worried about the connection issue now, throw audio in there and watch it fail miserably.
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Hmm. I just checked out what was listed in the "Upcoming Events" update post. Apparently "The Queen's Wrath" isn't going to be a story update after all. It's going to be a series of bounty missions. It's also a timed event, not a permanent addition. It would appear that what was shipped with the original game is all of the story that they had until the DLC comes out, and we are only guessing that the DLC will add actual story content. It might simply be more PvP maps, more Raids, and more Strikes, with no additional story arcs at all. Things are not looking good...
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btw, what system you play on?
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I'm not sure you can make this a story driven game though. Your character is what you make them and they have no back story, let alone a name. How can you get behind a character if its basically a blank slate sent on a mission, which happens to be the same mission as millions of other travelers? The story is a large group of Guardians (or mercenaries, really) are teaming up and attempting to save the Traveler. On its most basic level, its a rebellion involving participants with no identity. Hard to build a story around that.
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Ah, but this is the case in every video game. You are asked to do the tasks that everyone else is doing, and if you don't immerse yourself in the game then you say "but I am only one of millions doing the same thing." And yet, you are the featured character in every cutscene. Even if you are in a group, you are alone when you talk to the Queen or the Mysterious Exo. So even if there are other Guardians out there, from your own perspective, you are special. It is you who is the key to fighting the darkness, and the story mode would reinforce this illusion. Consider; You paly out the first arc on Earth and after you complete the last mission you have a cutscene where the Speaker talks to you. You haven't achieved greatness yet, but the Speaker implies that he senses something within you. Now you move on to the Moon. Again you play through the missions, and at the end another cutscene has you interact with the Speaker. Other Guardians are going to Venus on their own missions, yet it is you that he entrusts with finding out the mystery of this stranger from the wild. You don't need to identify your character by name, for you know who you are. The Speaker doesn't (and shouldn't) identify you by name, for in doing so he breaks your sense of immersion. And yet, after each milestone event, it is reinforced that it is you who stands out. Among all of the other guardians, it is your legend that is beginning, and having short, seminal moments with the Speaker would reinforce this. It doesn't matter that every other player is seeing the exact same story, for you don't experience those scenes from their perspective, but instead only from you own. Additionally, you are never introduced to your class trainer. Why? Why not have a short intro scene to play out when you meet them? You got a cutscene when you got your first ship. Isn't your sense of class identity just as important? Why not have a scene where the Cryptarch wants to speak with you during your time on Venus? Isn't Earth's history important enough to warrant his interest? All of these things could have been added into the game to increase the depth of the story. Maybe they aren't all good, and maybe people wouldn't like them, but at least they are attempts to get a bit more involvement in the story, and if I can come up with this in the span of 10 minutes you can bet a real, professional game's writer can come up with more given at least a few days or more.
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Edited by Vishimtar: 9/19/2014 4:04:22 PMI agree wholeheartedly that this is a PvP game masquerading as a PvE game with PvP on the side. I, too, wish for the success of the game; however, feel that if they don't do something to make PvE more rewarding then PvE players will simply move on. As it stands, you're wasting your time in the PvE content in this game, because as you pointed out you can earn rewards in PvP at 3 times the rate or better; and you are rewarded for success [i]or[/i] failure [i]and[/i] the many extra PvP vendors offer many more options for gear stats, weapon attributes and appearances. This is in stark contrast to strikes where if your group can't finish you go unrewarded on top of them being far more time consuming. Exotics being gated behind PvP tasks that may prove at the very least daunting and in some cases impossible for PvE players is one of the most ill-conceived design decisions I've seen in 20 years of gaming, too.
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In all fairness to Bungie, there is a degree of reward for playing PvE that PvP does not match well, and this is engram and gear drops. In a PvP match, the best you will get for a 10 minute play is 2 rewards, and often a PvP player will not even get that. A PvE player, however, will usually get multiple gear and engram drops. Unfortunately in both of these cases RNG plays an overwhelming basis, so it is impossible to quantify how this benefits one way or the other. Gear which drops is capped at level 20, so most weapon/armor drops are only good for dismantling, and engrams are most likely going to be of the same level, making them also of strictly limited use. I prefer to work with predictable numbers, so I tend to ignore this aspect of PvP/PvE play, however one should keep in mind that this is also an aspect of the game. As pointed out, however, the major reward is given to a PvP player regardless of success or failure. Now, I'm not advocating giving out rewards for failing a strike (that would be silly), and if there was no reward or a weaker reward for PvP then there would be few people who wished to play in PvP, which would hurt Bungie's main focus of the game. If PvE felt more rewarding this aspect of the situation would be easily ignored by most, if not all PvE players. Given the current situation, however, it becomes one more issue of imbalance that can add to the general level of frustration.
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But PvE players have the options, if avoiding PvP at all, is to buy the Gear they want and leveling them. Given that Rares and Legendary gear required materials usually found during patrols, the PvE players can do all of this without ever playing PvP, but PvP players have to play PvE at some point to level their gear. It also seems like all the gear, no matter the vendor is all the same for the most part. So while drops are nice, it makes more sense from Bungie's standpoint to make the better gear available mainly through purchases that require the user to play more.
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On the one hand, you are correct in that you cannot fully level up an item using PvP alone. On the other hand, the only thing that a weapon gains use from outside of Iron Banner is the perks that the weapon has, so leveling up attack and defense (both of which require world resources at their highest levels) is immaterial to the PvP experience unless one wants to participate in the Iron Banner. I look at Iron Banner, however, as the PvP version of the Vault of Glass. A cute addition, but only for those who play more hard-core outside of their preferred playstyle. Of course, having said that, it is easier to meet the requirements for the Iron Banner than it is the Vault of Glass, so once again, PvP has the advantage.
