I think this subthread is in perfect correlation with the video in the OP. "Feminism! We can't win with logic so we'll just act like idiots and silence people with opposing viewpoints" I mean don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of equal rights amongst everyone, I mean who isn't, but you (and the people in this video) are being an idiot. I mean what, you're not able to maturely answer his question with a logical response?

I'll respond to this earnestly since I've surpassed my taste for sarcasm for now. The reason feminists often don't respond to MRAs or act flippantly is because the other option is an unproductive timesink that usually just frustrates its participants. There's nothing to be gained from a personal, intellectual perspective from engaging with the practically professional level of obfuscation and wilful ignorance of those kinds of MRA anti-feminist arguments, so the only reason for doing it is to attempt to convince people who are so solidified in their position that their every ideological conviction on the point is dedicated to deriding feminists. Needless to say, that doesn't accomplish much. And does pulling a fire alarm or blasting some music during an MRA lecture accomplish much either? No, but the worst possible result would be the insecure centre being pushed away because oh dear it's such an assault on their freedom of speech and the spirit of inquiry (never mind the recurrent anti-feminist behaviour of harassing publicly identified feminists or women who happen to contradict the assumed stereotypically masculine norms of any given public space with threats of death and sexual violence - those are just trolls after all) - nothing is lost for the absence of an MRA voice in the crowd. In the end, the anti-feminist position is, as the name would suggest, all about tearing down feminist ideas and figures rather than genuine notions of making society's treatment of gender any better (except perhaps, myopically and ignorantly trying to accomplish that through that end in itself). Always framing any discussions over the undercurrents of feminism being useless and a detriment to society makes any kind of positive outcomes concerning the actual issues impossible - it just gives a voice to complaints about feminism being so gosh darn awful, perpetuating the same. It's like having scientists debate creationists in that it provides an avenue for them to brashly tear their opposition down rather than engaging with real lines of inquiry. This is perfectly demonstrated by the this particular scenario: the OP takes this video and uses it [i]solely[/i] to try to paint feminism negatively, and then you berate me for failing to engage with somebody who's just saying 'feminism sucks' as if there's a real intellectual issue at play here. There isn't: this isn't free and reasoned discussion of the merits of ideas about gender and society, and it never can be when anti-feminists are framing it as a way to shit on feminism because that makes it about something else entirely. There you go, there's a genuine, thought out answer about why feminists not taking anti-feminists' bullshit seriously isn't a sign that they're just unable to engage with the real problems of society's treatment of gender. I have no doubt that you will be satisfied by this and completely understand my position.

[quote]The reason feminists often don't respond to MRAs or act flippantly is because the other option is an unproductive timesink that usually just frustrates its participants. There's nothing to be gained from a personal, intellectual perspective from engaging with the practically professional level of obfuscation and wilful ignorance of those kinds of MRA anti-feminist arguments,[/quote] Despite the fact that I offered to engage in civil discourse half an hour ago, in which you subsequently circumvented my arguments with coy jokes and childish remarks? Yeah, and your whole MRA strawman is really strengthening my opinion of you. [quote]so the only reason for doing it is to attempt to convince people who are so solidified in their position that their every ideological conviction on the point is dedicated to deriding feminists. Needless to say, that doesn't accomplish much.[/quote] The 10 dollar words and sesquipedalian sentences isn't fooling anyone, just so you know. The need to defend antagonistic combative behaviour because their ideology just so happens to align with you is nothing short of confirmation bias, and taking the route of verbosity isn't going to magically change that. [quote]And does pulling a fire alarm or blasting some music during an MRA lecture accomplish much either? No, but the worst possible result would be the insecure centre being pushed away because oh dear it's such an assault on their freedom of speech and the spirit of inquiry (never mind the recurrent anti-feminist behaviour of harassing publicly identified feminists or women who happen to contradict the assumed stereotypically masculine norms of any given public space with threats of death and sexual violence - those are just trolls after all) - nothing is lost for the absence of an MRA voice in the crowd.[/quote] I believe downplaying an issue by pulling out the victimisation card is a fallacy of sorts, my friend. [quote]In the end, the anti-feminist position is, as the name would suggest, all about tearing down feminist ideas and figures rather than genuine notions of making society's treatment of gender any better (except perhaps, myopically and ignorantly trying to accomplish that through that end in itself). Always framing any discussions over the undercurrents of feminism being useless and a detriment to society makes any kind of positive outcomes concerning the actual issues impossible - it just gives a voice to complaints about feminism being so gosh darn awful, perpetuating the same. It's like having scientists debate creationists in that it provides an avenue for them to brashly tear their opposition down rather than engaging with real lines of inquiry. This is perfectly demonstrated by the this particular scenario: the OP takes this video and uses it solely to try to paint feminism negatively, and then you berate me for failing to engage with somebody who's just saying 'feminism sucks' as if there's a real intellectual issue at play here. There isn't: this isn't free and reasoned discussion of the merits of ideas about gender and society, and it never can be when anti-feminists are framing it as a way to shit on feminism because that makes it about something else entirely.[/quote] All of my kek. I would've thought egalitarian humanism the most obvious ideology to assign yourself to, ya know equal rights to all and whatnot, but I guess blatantly gender biased and gender orientated insipid movements is just a more tantalising option for equality, isn't it? I guess my misogynistic, victim blaming, patriarchal male brain doesn't know any better.

hue, it's like you have no sense of irony well, this was fun, but if you want me to respond, let me know when you actually read what I posted.

Oh I have read, comprehended, and fully understand your stance on this, so I just thought I'd drop my two cents and address your insane bullshittery.

Oh, cool. Can you remind me what the point of my post was, then? It's slipped my feeble, dogmatic mind.

"Men issues are trivial and gender issues are exclusive to women only. This kind of behaviour is acceptable when I agree with them. I think those that advocate true equality are MRA scum." Does that about sum it up succinctly?

Oh boy, you summarised my every point! How did so comprehensively decipher the ramblings of my inferior mind? Was it by looking at each of the words in sequence? Is that your trick? Seriously, come back when you even make an effort to understand my point.

Simplification aside, I wasn't really that far off was I? Unless there's some underlying hidden metaphorical message I had missed amongst the fastidious sentences, then I'd say I got your point well and clear.

It's not metaphorical, you just have to read each individual word in the context of the other words around it. Tricky, I know, but we gender fascists just have curious ways of communicating.

Funnily enough I did that, and amazingly, I comprehended the entirety of your post. Weird how us MRA patriarchs are capable of rational thought, but I guess I'm just a genetic anomaly like that.

You're condescending sarcastic tone is not appreciated. Surely even you don't approve of this kind of behavior despite having feminism attached to their name, or are you really as deluded as I thought?

I can't help my paranoid schizophrenia, I imagine dudebros high fiving over -blam!- jokes where none ever existed help me oh wise and learned MRA, teach me your unbiased and rational way of thinking

Backpedaling and dancing around my question isn't exactly doing wonders for your case, or feminism for that matter. So I'll ask again, do you really think this is a mature and sensible way to conduct yourself and the virtues of your movement in a civilised democracy? Or does feminism get a hall pass in silencing opposing viewpoints just cause?

oh heavens, civilise me you great strong man, civilise me with your throbbing intellect