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Edited by Winters Darkseid:
3/21/2014 4:17:22 AM
59
Cap would shit on chief. Chief would get torn apart by Cap's shield, and Cap is one very skilled hand to hand combatant.
OT: Cutscene carnifex reks all.
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Chief is already stronger, quicker, smarter and better trained than captain America. And his armor and Cortana make him more than twice as good on all accounts. All cap's got is an indestructible disk.
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[quote]Chief is already stronger, quicker, smarter and better trained than captain America[/quote] Stronger, yes. Quicker, no. Smarter, eh, about equal. Better trained? [i]Hell[/i] no. Cap would stomp John's ass in CQC. [quote]And his armor and Cortana make him more than twice as good on all accounts[/quote] Cortana is outside help. And dead regardless. And no, she does not make him twice as strong, nor better trained, nor smarter.
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I didn't attribute those characteristics to cortana alone, I specifically said "his armor and cortana"
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Yes, I saw that after I posted. I'm too lazy to fix it now.
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Chief's reflexes are many times better than the best humans. Chief was trained from a child, captain America got steroids as an adult, so no way could he have received more training. Besides, chief's bones wouldn't be broken in cqc by anything captain America could hit him with. In the video chief had cortana. Mjolnir would just make the fight completely unfair.
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[quote]Chief's reflexes are many times better than the best humans[/quote] So are Cap's. He can see bullets mid-flight and dodge lasers. John can't. [quote]Chief was trained from a child, captain America got steroids as an adult, so no way could he have received more training[/quote] He knows every form of Earthly martial art. John does not. John is certainly a competent fighter, but Cap is without a doubt the more skilled of the two. [quote]Besides, chief's bones wouldn't be broken in cqc[/quote] They wouldn't have to. A solid punch to the head would rock John's brain. The metal around his skull would just knock him out that much more quickly. [quote]In the video chief had cortana[/quote] Unless OP specifically says he has Cortana, then he doesn't. If we're assuming he does, then Cap has SHIELD giving him intel while he fights. [quote]Mjolnir would just make the fight completely unfair[/quote] It would even it up, but not enough to make up for Cap's ridiculous speed and skill.
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But, this is a really good argument though. I'm gunna look up the legit stats of each, because there are something's that I don't know about captain America. My observations were from the movies. On the other hand I know more actual facts about John, so that may contribute to some sort of bias.
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What training did cap have? Once again, I disagree completely, chief has had more actual training time, catered to his abilities, not just very generic martial art. John is stronger than cap, so a punch could kill him instantly if you say one of Rodgers' could. Chief is lightning quick, (he dodges bullet fire in the books) and can run faster than 40 mph. I don't see how speed is contestable. Honestly looking at each of their capabilities, they are only close to even without any armor or equipment. With his armor chief could literally just rip cap's arms off.
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[quote]What training did cap have[/quote] He got advanced military training before he got his supersoldier serum. After that he trained with some of the world's best martial artists, like Batroc the Leaper. I don't think it's ever been brought up in detail, but he's stated that he knows every form of combat in the world. [quote]chief has had more actual training time[/quote] Eight years, to be precise. [quote]catered to his abilities, not just very generic martial art.[/quote] Well yeah, he got better training than standard military. [quote]John is stronger than cap, so a punch could kill him instantly if you say one of Rodgers' could.[/quote] Maybe if he hit Cap straight on in the head, thought that's [i]very[/i] doubtful. Cap's bodysuit has taken blows from beings [i]much[/i] stronger than John. [quote]Chief is lightning quick, (he dodges bullet fire in the books)[/quote] He dodged 'one or two' machine gun bullets in "The Fall of Reach". He isn't a full-on bullet-timer like Cap. [quote]and can run faster than 40 mph[/quote] He'd win in a footrace, which isn't the same as winning in terms of reflexes. [quote]Honestly looking at each of their capabilities, they are only close to even without any armor or equipment. With his armor chief could literally just rip cap's arms off.[/quote] With his armor he at least stands a chance. Without his armor, John is just a bump in the road for Rogers.
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He dodges the vast majority of a spray of machine gun fire, and is hit by a couple bullets. John has taken hits from much stronger elites and brutes, so I'm not sure how effective Rodgers' actual punches would be. If captain's reflexes are superior, the gap between his and chiefs' would be minuscule, so I don't see how it's a great advantage. The problem is there is no concrete proof of how strong each attribute is across the different Hero's universes. With the exception of raw strength and raw speed, all the other variables are just so similar.
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[quote]He dodges the vast majority of a spray of machine gun fire, and is hit by a couple bullets[/quote] Um, no. The passage says he dodged one or two rounds, and he was surprised he could do so. [quote]John has taken hits from much stronger elites and brutes, so I'm not sure how effective Rodgers' actual punches would be[/quote] A punch from a jiralhanae took out half of Fred's shield in "Ghosts of Onyx", so I'd say maybe two or three from Cap could do the same. After that, well, John's armor wouldn't stop internal bleeding or a concussion, or a smashed faceplate. [quote]If captain's reflexes are superior, the gap between his and chiefs' would be minuscule, so I don't see how it's a great advantage.[/quote] Except not, since Cap can and has dodged bullets and lasers from several shooters at once. John has never done anything even [i]close[/i] to that. [quote]With the exception of raw strength and raw speed, all the other variables are just so similar.[/quote] Skill is pretty one-sided. So is experience.
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Experience isn't one sided. And it's impossible to dodge lasers, since they are instant hit things.
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[quote]Experience isn't one sided.[/quote] Cap has experience fighting a [i]much[/i] more diverse set of enemies. Yeah, it kind of is. [quote]And it's impossible to dodge lasers, since they are instant hit things.[/quote] Cap did it anyway.
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Chief has fought humans, vehicles, and an array of aliens. But whatever, if he can do the impossible then he wins.
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Cap has fought the Hulk. What does Chief have on the Hulk? Please. Tell me. Right now. I want to know. Please share with the group on what John 117 has on the Hulk.
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Calm down guy... Did he take the hulk down?spiderman has fought the friggin hulk for god sakes.
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We're not talking about Spidey. We're talking about you saying John's strength provides an overwhelming advantage. When Cap has fought the Hulk, what has John? Cap wins this, and pretty easily. Batman wins against John pretty easily. Frigging Wolverine, Green Arrow, Iron Fist, Punisher, BOOSTER GOLD wins against Chief. Compared to comics, Chief is a wimp. A whiney, crying wimp. In Marvel he'd probably be an unnamed agent of SHIELD. Just another enforcer in the Cape Killer Unit. There to be beaten up by a REAL hero.
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Of course the whimsical comic superpowers have an advantage over a more "realistic" superhuman like John, but Punisher? Please tell me how anyone can do anything but laugh at a fight between the punisher (a strong guy that shoots good) and chief (a nearly bulletproof crack shot that can kill any normal human with a flick) Captain America is pretty tame by comic standards. But hey, if marvel says he can take a punch from the hulk and live, whatever, you win.
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[quote]kill any normal human with a flick[/quote] ...Uh...
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But, fun fact! John has killed aliens with a finger before, by making his gauntlet rigged as steel and poking a hole in its head.
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When? Source?
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Shit, it was in one of the halo legends stories I think. He killed a jackal like that. I will look for the source, it may take some time.
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It was an exaggeration and you know it, you get what I mean.
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Um, I'd say John would beat Castle without too much trouble. Same with Green Arrow, with a little luck. Don't get me wrong, most comic characters shitstomp him, but not [i]all[/i] of them.
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99% of them would. Squirrel Girl would eat him for a nutty snack.
