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11/15/2013 4:54:19 PM
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Lack of Damage Control: Methods Vs. Outcomes- A Theory

As I am sure everybody knows, last night there was a pretty large outcry from the Bungie fanbase as Bungie announced that PS4 users would be getting dibs on the Beta before anyone else. Some people are furious, others apparently don't mind, and a smaller amount are happy (not due to numbers of people as a whole in gaming, but because playstation users have yet to become as numerous as Xbox users on Bungie.net). I find myself in the former category, and I would take this opportunity to explain why. Bungie has traditionally been a company with a large focus on the community. This has been their stance- their methodology- for years. Many years ago, Bungie developed on computers rather than consoles, and enabled things like voice communications in-game. For funding purposes, Bungie was purchased by Microsoft and their RTS/3PS/Squad Based Shooter/ Whatever-at-the-time, currently named Halo, was instead developed for the Xbox. Microsoft saw the potential in this title and company, and brought it into exclusivity by purchasing the company that made it. Bungie needed the publicity and the funding for this project, and we all know it was for the best because that project turned into one of the most culturally significant titles ever released- Halo: CE. But this was done from necessity, and at this point Microsoft owned both Bungie and Halo. That's right. For those of you who do not know any better, let me say that again. [i]Microsoft owned Halo[/i]. In 2007 when Bungie became an independent company, people say Bungie gave away the rights to Halo. This is a misconception. Bungie never owned Halo since they were bought by Microsoft. Microsoft has owned Halo for well over a decade now. Therefore regardless of how Bungie wished to expand or publicize, it was Microsoft's choice. Fast forwarding, Halo became a title very community oriented. Custom games rather than just private games ('custom' being the key word, as in customizable). The variance in gameplay made possible, and even moreso with Halo 3's Forge Mode which was outstanding at the time. Bungie would hold contests and interact with the community regularly both for the sake of publicity and because Bungie was very focused and tight with their community. For example, look at Bungie.net. During Halo 3's era this was considered the most advanced and in-depth developer website in the world. The vast majority of people came for statistics which were incredibly detailed at the time. Bungie invested many, many resources into this project and it showed just how community oriented Bungie was as a company. Fastforward to Halo 3: ODST. Bungie told us it would be what... a $30 title? That was a public statement. Then the game price was announced by Microsoft and we were absolutely floored that it was $60 instead. Bungie lied to us, they are greedy, they just want money, yaddya yaddya. But later, Bungie made another announcement. Included with ODST would be the Halo 3: Mythic disk. This included Halo 3 multiplayer and every piece of DLC ever made for the game. Currently the Legendary Pack is $2, Mythic $5, and Mythic2 is $10. Now keep in mind the fact that those were all $10 at the time of ODST. So Bungie managed to balance out the price by getting Microsoft to let them include that in there. It was a stroke of genius. And let's not forget how Cold Storage is free to this day! So now. We are in 2013, and we have emerged from the darkness. I came to this website every single day during the darkness. This is because I was loyal to Bungie, I felt valued, loved the community, and couldn't wait to see what would come out next. Throughout the darkness, those of us here were promised time and time again that we would not be forgotten, that we would be 'rewarded' for staying here. 'Rewarded' for being good members of the community and sticking it through to the end. We would be 'rewarded' for being test subjects of the new forums. I ask those of you that stayed. What have we gotten? Many of us have lost our private groups, places that hold very special places in our hearts. We've lost our sense of community as everything is now a jumbled mess. Holding conversations as a group is nigh impossible because the current forum structure only realistically keeps hold of one on one communications. What we have received... is a number in our profile saying how long we've been here, invisible to everybody that doesn't click your name, and [currently] 17 codes that redeem something in Destiny- but that EVERYBODY gets. And it's cool- people sticking around should get something. It's not like I want those exclusive to a console or anything. Not being able to get the complete game like that would be a terrible thing, I think. ... And yet here we are. When we all deduced that Bungie would be developing for the Playstation by the leaked contract, and even before then the job requests for Playstation developers to work at Bungie, there was no outcry. The community, for nearly everybody, was actually [i]pleased[/i]. No gamer worth anybody's time [i]wants[/i] something to be exclusive to only one chunk of the community. Very few people actually [i]want[/i] others to be left out of something. So the Xbox... no, the [i]Bungie[/i] community was happy with this development. The community would expand. It would grow with new life brought by a whole new mass of people swarming the website for what we all honestly believed would be a title for the ages. Rare are the times when the community would come together in such agreement. There is where things started to sour. Bungie wanted to expand to a new community, which the Bungie community was thrilled about. But their methods... their methods left people quite confused at first. Destiny was announced for the PS4, and the Xbox was never even mentioned. It was almost like it being multiplatform was a secret. Like they didn't want people to realize it was not an exclusive. Next. An exclusive partnership was announced between Bungie and Sony. People were upset over this. We welcomed the playstation users to the community. But it sucks that they are going to be getting things. Yet there was not a truly massive outcry because people interpreted this commonly as Sony users getting, say, some custom skins or other small items. And even then those things might be timed exclusives, so for such inconsequential things it wasn't really worth the heat. Disappointing, but nothing to have much emotion about... ... And now we have the Beta. The Beta received for preordering Destiny... huh. Bnet, did you know that at 0900 last Spring I waited outside of my Gamestop for it to open so I could preorder the game? I have little doubt I was the first person in the midwest to preorder it. I told the cashier I wanted to preorder this game. He said he never heard of it. I looked at my watch and told him it was a game that was going to be announced in around an hour or two, but since it's in their systems I wanted to preorder it. He looked it up and there it was. He claimed they didn't have the poster. So I walked back to my apartment- a 30 minute walk one way, by the way, and they called me back saying they did have them. So I walked back, got it, and back home again. All in all, it was around a 2 1/2 hour adventure... just because of how excited I was. I'm actually known at the store as the Destiny guy, now, because I answer questions for the guys working there about it and the likes. They recognize me, even. My friends make fun because of how I talk about the game, wear the shirt, etc. Where do I stand? I am a player that has played Bungie games for 12 years now. I have posted and been active on this website almost every day for the past 7 years, going on 8. I feel that overall I've been a good member, too. I wear merchandise of them- shirts and backpacks that say Bungie on them. I have super-awesome editions of their games. I stood outside the store for Destiny because I love Bungie. And... I'm only one person. One of many, and I'm sure I'm not the most hardcore fan of them, not by a longshot. But still... more than most. So I ask again... where do I stand? I'll tell you. Due to the fact that I have been with Bungie for 12 years; due to the fact that I followed them and got an Xbox 360 largely to stay with them because I felt the company valued its community as a whole; and due to the fact that I became so engrossed in this community that it became a part of my REAL life as well... I am told that I don't matter. People that have stuck through the darkness. People that have been with Bungie for years. People that have stayed as guinea pigs for this new Bnet even as it ruined what many of us saw as pillars of the community. People that remained after promised of return. This massive section of the community is being told that they are less important and that we should make room for the new baby coming into the family because mommy needs to pay special attention to a newborn. And worse... Bungie refuses to even address it. This is a turn from the early years. When Bungie moved from the computer to the Xbox, it was due to needing superior hardware and because Halo was no longer their property- they merely developed it. But Bungie is independent now. They chose to enter these deals with Activision and Sony. They chose to tell their most loyal fanbase that it needs to sit down and be quiet. And this goes against everything Bungie has stood for over the past decade.

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  • Speechless, amazing post that I agree 100% with. I wasn't here as long but I stayed through the darkness from day one and through the site update, and all I want is for Bungie to address these issues. Earned a follower my good friend, more people should bump this.

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  • All my links btw http://gamingeverything.com/bungie-not-a-fan-of-halo-wars-microsoft-forced-ensemble-to-make-it-a-halo-game/ http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-06/18/destinys-destiny http://fortune.com/2007/10/05/why-the-makers-of-halo-are-splitting-from-microsoft/ http://arcadesushi.com/bungie-helped-sony-design-ps4-controller-destiny-content-to-remain-ps-exclusive/

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  • Bump for significant relevance to recent events. [b]Incredible[/b] post btw. This is the kind of thread Bungie will always turn a blind eye to. The fact that Bungie has just put its hands over its ears and pretended this whole issue isn't even a thing just goes to show they know that they're bullshitting their community for some cash and can't even face it.

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  • I wouldn't really care if this was Destiny 2, or some other developed franchise, but this is the first time any of the public (Outside of the lucky few who were able to get invited to a private Alpha.) will be able to set foot in Bungie's newest universe. Now the majority of the fanbase won't be able to participate in that "Initial Rush". It leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I don't even care about timed (Or even exclusive) DLC, but that first rush being taken away is just a low blow. I understand that it's for marketing and all the associated hoopla, but that doesn't take the sting away.

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    1 Reply
    • The words that I just read. Are the words that my brain has been trying to piece together. But then you said it for me.

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    • Edited by Obsric: 6/10/2014 5:40:41 PM
      Great stuff Burritosenior; well done. [quote]You'll be able to play Destiny first on Playstation. Millions around the world have been eagerly awaiting the Destiny beta. Tonight, I'm excited to announce that Playstation gamers will get their hands on it first starting July 17th. And for those Playstation fans who can't wait until next month for the beta to start, we've got something extra special for PS4. Starting this Thursday and lasting through the weekend, PS4 owners around the world will get a chance to play the Destiny first look alpha.[/quote][quote]There's always going to be more of Destiny on Playstation. On launch day, you're going to get an incredible amount of in-game content. From unique Weapons, armor sets, gear, kick ass ships, as well as "Exodus", an exclusive competitive multiplayer map. And the best part, an entire exclusive Strike on Mars. Strikes are stand alone, unique cooperative adventures, where you get to battle epic bosses. There's literally too much great content to detail tonight, but needless to say, when Destiny comes to Playstation this year, it will do so first, bigger and better than on any other platform.[/quote] I do remember when there was a sense of pride in the fact that Bungie would be taking another step forward in it's plans for World Domination by introducing their games to Playstation. It was a chance to essentially double our community and introduce them to something special. But then something changed. I feel that it was more a top down change, rather than something that stemmed from the bottom up. Almost over night, during the long dark, the community interaction... changed. Suddenly the Flood were out everywhere, but more concerning, was the lack of an apparent ban hammer. What became 'acceptable' commentary reached new depths of homophobic and misogynistic filth. With the sudden appearance of day, new members came on board and acclimatised themselves to this new lowest common denominator of acceptable behavior. It's no wonder these forums have such a combative flavour to them; these forums are hardly the nurturing grounds of fan fiction and respectful debate they once were. But through all of this, I had hoped that the appearance of a new game would pull the community together again, and that it would return to the vibrant nature it once was. Without being over dramatic, I've learned to live with this new reality; accepting it won't ever return to how it was. I can live with the unique weapons, armor and ships being offered to Playstation players; pre-order bonuses are a part of the marketing cycle and a common part of game publishing. The exclusive content is an issue for me. A single raid is... uncomfortable; not because I don't get to have it, but because of what it represents in terms of game development. This isn't a skin thrown on some current engine in order to generate revenue; this is meant to be a Bungie game. What I find horrible, is that in order to not spoil anything about this game, I'm going to have to leave these forums from Thursday July 12th, not really sure when I'll be able to come back, but knowing it will be sometime after July 17th. Having checked these forums on close to daily basis for the last 6 years (longer, given it was some time before I created an account to take my first steps into this whole internet forum thing), I find it frustrating that I'm being forced away in order to keep myself away from impressions of gameplay I can't contribute in. The most terrible part of all of this, is the complete silence from Bungie. The Bungie of old would have found a way around this ridiculousness; probably by agreeing that non-NDA Alpha access for only some of their community was a stupid and divisive idea in the first place...

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      1 Reply
      • It's depressing how true this post has become.

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      • Old and bumped, but still true.

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      • I agree completely, I have been a longtime Bungie fan as well

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      • Watch the bungie staff come out and offer the old excuse "we wanted to give xbox fans the alpha and early beta but the legal monkeys said no!"

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      • Great post(s) Burrito. So I have a question - does one have to self-publish in order to retain control? At what point does cash trump community? Many athletes understand that professional sports are a business whereas many fans do not. Has video game development crossed over into the "business first" mentality instead of "for the love of the game?" JTS

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      • Nice read Sir Burrito. I haven't been active on the forums continuously as you have, but I can relate. Never missed a midnight release of any of the titles, one hour drive one way to nearest Gamestop (that's all we have as far as outlets here other than Walmart and an active volcano...) All my friends called me crazy, "Why can't you wait until the next day?" they said. Ha! Wait! Neverrrrr! Many of us have those stories and feelings, but as Bungie expands, things are changing as well. We have the memories :) Hopefully we'll be around to build new ones soon.

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      • 0
        liked for length

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      • TL/TR

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      • Even though it's over a month old it's still true.

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      • [quote]Due to the fact that I have been with Bungie for 12 years; due to the fact that I followed them and got an Xbox 360 largely to stay with them because I felt the company valued its community as a whole; and due to the fact that I became so engrossed in this community that it became a part of my REAL life as well... I am told that I don't matter. [/quote] I totally back your passion for Destiny Burrito. And I understand the frustration some people are feeling over the favoritism BUNGiE has been issuing it's incoming PS players. But I think "I am told that I don't matter" is a bit of an overstatement. A week earlier into the Beta isn't something to cry "betrayal" over. We don't even know what the extent of the Beta content is going to be yet. We're still all getting the full release version on the same day. I agree with many of your points, even as someone who will be getting the "perks" of a PS4 user. I just don't know if we've yet hit this level of... well, whistle-blowing yet. I'd love to get some feedback from Deej or a higher-up to address these woes people a feeling. A good, solid message to the people. P.S. If I'm resurrecting a dead topic, head me off at the pass. I'm just here because it got bumped up on the "trending" category and caught my eye.

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      • That is more reading than I have done at one time in a very long time. You do make some very good points in your post. I really do hope Bungie comes around to the way they used to be.

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      • When are you not complaining about something?

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      • You're just upset they still haven't made the rotating moustache an avatar option yet.

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        1 Reply
        • I feel like I should get an achievement for reading that all... Honestly, I'm taking the wait and see approach. From what I can tell, everything the PS guys are getting is timed, meaning I'm going to play the same thing they are [i]eventually[/i]. Sure it still sucks, but it isn't [i]that[/i] bad. Not yet anyway. Not until [i]timed exclusives[/i] turn into [i]exclusives[/i]. As for the beta, it stings a little, but Bungie's betas usually last good while. There should be plenty of time to get full satisfaction from it. I'll just have to go dark for a bit before I can enjoy it. Now for the feeling of betrayal... maybe we Xbox guys could get some Halo-themed weapon/armor skins? Hmm? Come on, I'm sure Microsoft wouldn't complain.

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        • I thought it sucked and I was only here for 2 years.. I really don't know what to say, just hope that this doesn't continue after Destiny's release, or if not that then it's sequel.

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        • I feel sorry for you, burrito. I'd say, be patient. But, tbh, I could also say all good things come to an end.

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        • I can understand a perceived slight. But isn't it a bit premature to assume you get nothing? You may not get everything but perhaps things will look better when you can see the whole picture.

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        • Edited by Cobravert: 11/15/2013 5:41:26 PM
          Welcome to the harsh reality of the corporate world Burrito. I don't believe for a minute that the guys many of us have been around and have had the opportunity to get to know a little are any different now than they were in the past. They don't make the corporate decisions. But Bungie as a company isn't Bungie.net. It isn't the employees we have been able to know and occasionally get to game with. It seems that you have taken the company too personally. This is [url=http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/02/19/is-activisions-destiny-with-bungie/]Bungie.[/url]

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        • Beautiful.

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