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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by Oryx's Slimy Worm: 2/14/2021 8:59:56 AM
50

How do you unintentially nerf stuff when play testing exist?

Im not a game developer, but it doesnt make sense how Eyes of Tomorrow and Shade-Binder both got nerfed extremely hard "unintentially". Do you guys really not play test the game before releasing major updates? You'd think that because you tinkered each exotic rocket launcher individually that a mistake like that would have been caught right? Same goes for shade-binder, you would have had to play test the new aspect and fragments....right? Doesn't add up, seems extremely suspicious, just like back in year one when XP was throttled and you guys didnt tell us till we noticed. edit: would be dope to see a Bungie employee respond and explain how this happens, then at least we'd know. Sadly they only respond to the easy stuff

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  • I honestly feel like the secretly nerf weapons , Bungie is shady

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    • playtest? huh?

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    • We are the play testers

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    • Of course they always shit on Warlocks. Soon as stasis launched they nerfed the warlock out the gate. Hunter week's later, still haven't even touched the Behemoth but the Warlock gets -blam!-ed a 2nd time. They also deleted my Warlocks Lucent armor ornament!!

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    • You weren't supposed to notice the warlock nerf.

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      • Because no matter the B.S. they say after the fact; it WAS NOT “ unintentional.

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      • Bro they don't play their own game. Said but painfully obvious.

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      • Edited by kellygreen45: 2/14/2021 12:47:30 PM
        Ever worked in a large organization? If you have, it is [i]easy[/i] to see how something like this happened: poor communication. The jobs in large corporations are very specialized (otherwise you get chaos and confusion over who is supposed to be doing what). So effectiveness depends on clear and careful coordination between people doing certain things. So here’s how that accidental nerf can happen. 1. Bungie is making lots of changes at once. But the people making the changes (Sandbox team) aren’t the same ones who created this new weapon (Weapons Design). So they change the code to alter one weapon and don’t realize (the game has millions of lines of code) that it shares code with the new weapon. 2. Someone tests a change, but forgets to remove it and therefore doesn’t tell anyone about it. It not the job of anyone else to look at what the damage numbers are...so they don’t catch it. 3. Bungie is trying to streamline their changes. So that means making testing faster so their is less time and less opportunity to catch unusual events or problems. 4. COVID-19. Meeting and communications that once happened face to face and in real time are now happening virtually and point-to-point. (Messages and intentions get distorted). 5. The issue isn’t quality testing. By the time the gun gets to QA testing, that is about making sure the weapon WORKS and isn’t breaking the game in some unexpected way. I highly doubt that job includes making sure it’s doing the right amount of damage. That’s the Sandbox Teams job...see points 1-3. 6. Bungie grew extremely rapidly as a company, going from 200 employees to almost 1000...with a combine workforce of almost 1500 in about five years. So they had to formalize a lot of things that can be handled in formally in an environment where everyone knows each other...and had to do it while the size and complexity of operations exploded. TLDR: mistakes like this are usually the result of communication breakdowns in a large organization. Either because of human error. Or because something unusual happened that the system didn’t allow for. So either no one picked up on it, or no one felt they could safely act upon it. In some toxic organizations (I used to work in one) you’d get punished for doing the right thing simply because it was done in the “wrong” way. So sometimes people will let things break, instead of risking themselves to intervene.

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        • Because it's a complex infinitesimal web of code and changing things sometimes have knock on, unexpected or unintentional consequences. You only need to look at any live service game. I remember Apex's hit detection went slightly off one update, but it was unnoticed until out in the wild because its impossible to stress test every little thing and the difference was so hit and miss that it had to be out there and getting played for players to notice something was a little off. Further inspection confirmed it and it got fixed. That's one example in thousands. If you combed and play tested a patch so utterly comprehensively that nothing got through, we would never get patches and the manpower would be absurd. As a gamer you just accept there may be a few teething troubles sometimes and get on with just enjoying the game, if it ain't totally broke.

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          • Lie, so when they "fix" something it's not going to be how it originally was before the nerf. So instead of stealth nerfing it knowing the player base would catch on, they do it in plain sight and come up with some story to justify their dumb actions. History speaks for its self...

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            • Because no matter how big your testing group is it doesn't compare to the literal thousands and thousands of players that actually play the game.

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            • Developers being aware of these issues but ignoring them and pushing patches is all too common practice. At best it eventually gets fixed. At worst they hope you don’t notice or care so they don’t have to spend resources fixing the issues.

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            • I’m pretty sure we’re the play testers.

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            • Edited by F012351173: 2/13/2021 6:40:27 PM
              It's pretty debatable, whether or not any testing/validation occurs, more importantly, the depth of the playtest and its scope determine what issues are caught/fixed. Considering the age/life of the game, the relationship to the publisher, it's more than likely that the once huge team of QA Testers is no more than a skeleton crew with pressing deadlines. Dev/Release cycles are not exactly as most assume they are: a project isnt simply developed when advertised. In most cases, it leaves preproduction and enters the test phase during a period when a predecessor is still in market. In this case, Seasonal content is not a focusing point for Bungie, it's a matter of iteration. What you consider a season is no more than a content patch. Patches are not a high priority. Reason being is they've been tested over and over and balancing is not as simple as base damage. You forget about enemy ranks, associated resistances, etc. Now compound that with classifying enemy Gaurdians and classs/mods, etc. Bungie is doing exactly what is necessary to keep D2 relevant; after all, conversation, no matter how controversial about a product still brings attention. Whether or not a weapon can be "nerfed" or "buffed" isnt always as simple as a few lines of code. Consider each weapon per as a module tied into a larger system that not only calculates perk appropriation, slot placement, but the actual methods/expressions/calls needed to trigger the perk effectively. A Library/Table system to not only define and handle the aforementioned but also to globally manage the number of perks whether exotic or otherwise, a system to validate the target, and calculate weapon performance based on perks and the games world rules... Theres a lot of interplay that happens with a game of this scale and a weapon library meant to be expansive as this game's. Not defending the project by any means, just stating some facts. I worked in QA on Triple A titles so I know firsthand how chaotic it can be.

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            • If you're not a game dev then maybe you should stop talking and be quiet.

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              • My guess as for the eyes of Tomorrow nerf, was that some accidently put (-) instead of (+) 20%

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                • They test on a emulator. That’s how.

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                • I am sure that they nerfed dunemarchers and that’s why it isn’t “working properly.” Assholes

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                  • o look everyone a original post i think we need 12 more just like this one so bungie heard us

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                    • Isn't it obvious by now that they don't playtest their game

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                      • The players are the play testers. All Bungie checks for are technical errors in implementation limited to signing into, and exploration within the game world. They don't play test every individual thing that may go wrong for everything in the game, that would be absurd.

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                        • Edited by GrifterDeMier01: 2/14/2021 12:26:05 AM
                          It’s almost like there might be a small group of disgruntled employees inside bungie that are constantly FÜCKING up the games code on purpose. Seriously this is a triple A company worth billions and has a thousand employees and EVERY SINGLE TIME a new patch comes out like 50+ things get broken. That never happens with other games. Ya small little bugs and glitches do happen but no where near the same level of this game and no where near as frequently. And other games fix the problems within a few days. Bungie often times it takes them weeks or months to finally fix something. A perfect recent example if this is the thunder lord scope. A new patch came out a few months ago and after the patch the scope for thunder lord was gone. Did bungie even bother to fix this? Nope. Was this a huge issue. Nope. But it’s very very very lazy and unprofessional to not go in and fix that right away. It was like this for about 5-6 weeks. They only bothered to fix it when the new season started. LOL! Pathetic bungie, really pathetic.

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                          • The funny thing is, they came and said exotics get treated and balanced separately lol. So I'm also wondering how they managed to nerf an exotic that gets balanced and tweaked separately compared to other things

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                            • How do people spell things wrong when spell checker exists?

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                                I actually believe it's unintentional, not because I think they did their testing and accidentally missed it, they most likely just did lousy work with the update and decide not to test anything, exotics are -blam!-ed up but they don't bother change anything so their pathetic effort become a line on twab "We have different plan for exotics rocket lunchers"

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                              • this is live service buddy mediocre content and 'good enough' quality control polish is utterly sacrificed

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