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Edited by Pundone:
5/14/2018 12:12:24 PM
53
An Evaluation of Player Feedback Regarding Heroic Strikes
So, within a post regarding Heroic Strikes and player feedback [[url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/245001545[/url]], I received a lot of feedback as well.
Thus far, a majority of players that gave feedback regarding Heroic Strikes were fine with the difficulty, as some predict difficulty will diminish with increasing power values. Therefore, many of us agree that the problem players face is with that of progression, where difficulty does not bring reward equal to it. More specifically, most expect a 350 activity to gradually raise their power level to that of it, if not beyond. (Suggestions went toward it dropping up to 360 power gear.)
As suspected, this points directly to that of a Rise of Iron progression system, where people want to run strikes until they reach a certain cap. And, from there they can top their progression off with higher level activities, those being raids and nightfalls and in D2's case, maybe Escalation Protocol.
Beyond that, it's not out of the question that many also want Heroic Strikes to still be relevant past the cap, which [i]can[/i] be done through other forms of reward (grindable weapons and gear specific to Heroic Strikes).
In conclusion, we say let's keep Heroic Strikes where they are in terms of difficulty, but we want better incentive to do them outside of "Milestones".
(I'm sure the votes will determine whether or not this 'evaluation' goes toward popular opinion.)
Edit: Links weren't working.
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[quote]So, within a post regarding Heroic Strikes and player feedback [[url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/245001545[/url]], I received a lot of feedback as well. Thus far, a majority of players that gave feedback regarding Heroic Strikes were fine with the difficulty, as some predict difficulty will diminish with increasing power values. Therefore, many of us agree that the problem players face is with that of progression, where difficulty does not bring reward equal to it. More specifically, most expect a 350 activity to gradually raise their power level to that of it, if not beyond. (Suggestions went toward it dropping up to 360 power gear.) As suspected, this points directly to that of a Rise of Iron progression system, where people want to run strikes until they reach a certain cap. And, from there they can top their progression off with higher level activities, those being raids and nightfalls and in D2's case, maybe Escalation Protocol. Beyond that, it's not out of the question that many also want Heroic Strikes to still be relevant past the cap, which [i]can[/i] be done through other forms of reward (grindable weapons and gear specific to Heroic Strikes). In conclusion, we say let's keep Heroic Strikes where they are in terms of difficulty, but we want better incentive to do them outside of "Milestones". (I'm sure the votes will determine whether or not this 'evaluation' goes toward popular opinion.) Edit: Links weren't working.[/quote] Mine aren't even scoring toward my quest at -blam!-ing all.
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I made a similar post yesterday. It's ridiculous that heroic strikes are not rewarding at all. Right now, for people trying to level up, heroics are hard. Really hard. Which is fine, if it was worth doing. We asked for challenge, and we got challenge, no complaints there. But I ran strikes with my characters on the weekend (all around 344 or so), and it was pretty damn difficult to finish the strikes. We would wipe, or people would quit and just leave two (sometimes even just me) left over to finish the run. When we finally finished, all I got was blues which were below anything I was currently wearing - so effectively useless. I even had on my 3 of coins and the other buff coin (can't recall the name). Below level blues for an hour's worth of work? Are you serious??? That's just insulting. Heroics strikes should provide "powerful" type rewards. At least 1 purple on completion, which is above current gear level. This would make it worth fighting your way through. They should also provide rare and exclusive drops, maybe using the same system as D1 with skeleton keys and strike specific loot. I think we should be able to fight our way to the max gear level doing heroics. Considering their difficulty and and the fact that not everyone does, or wants to do the raids, herocis should be an option for those that want to play that way. They don't provide matchmaking for Nightfall or Raids, so casual players who don't always have a team to work with are at a serious disadvantage. Let us play the way we want to play, and still have a sense of achievement, and don't try to slot us all into your one-path-to-victory shoebox. I really wanted D2 to be a great game. I came back to check it out for the new DLC and even though it's slightly improved, its still a bitter disappointment. F.U. Bungle.
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Absolutely leave the difficulty where it's at and just give out rewards that are worth the grind. I'm not asking for 385 gear either. Maybe strikes can get you to 370 and the rest is for raids and trials. Even if they gave me one piece of gear 1 PL higher than I am will make me feel like I'm progressing and still keeping me from leveling too fast. Dropping 340 gear is just an insult imo.
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1 ReplyEdited by meatballsublime: 5/15/2018 3:00:15 PMThe disproportion between the difficulty and rewards has been talked about much already, so let me add this... Traditionally, heroic strikes and nightfalls have had more [i]good [/i]modifiers to balance out the [i]bad [/i]modifiers. The singes and grenadier aren't nearly as potent as D1's counterparts, but we are also missing some equivalent to small arms and specialist, airborne, and rainbow burn. The D2 melee dmg buff modifier is also a complete joke. I still have to two-hit a red acolyte. Meanwhile, on blackout, any enemy melee is an 16x dmg insta-kill. Bottom line, we are getting punished without the positive trade-offs that have a way of making these activities fun/interesting. Honestly, the new modifiers feels like trolling by Bungie on the topic of difficulty. People complained about difficulty, so Bungie swung wildly in the opposite direction.
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1 Replyi for one never asked for anything to harder. only thing i asked for was way more reserve ammo for all weapons and alot more pve content, and stop with pvp.
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I love the new difficulty but my issue is the heroic burns seem like they do nothing for the guardian and is only for enemies.
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Yep, agreed. They are savagely hard, at least at the moment, and that's fine but the rewards should reflect that.
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I agree, I loved the difficulty of the heroic strikes. Now my concern is how easy it gotten being 360 on my main and around 350 with the others. Im basically helping others complete them now whilst theres nothing to gain for me. The incentive could be improved for players 340-350. And maybe for even higher players. Good job OP
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Nightfalls are easier than Heroic Strikes.
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I cannot argue with a sing point you made. Perfectly stated in my opinion.
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1 ReplySorry, blackout will never get easier. And after trying for 90 minutes again last night and only being able to get one strike done, I'm not doing anymore of them until I get to at least 360. And then I still won't do them when blackout or glass is on. I play this game for fun not frustration.
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2 RepliesMy feedback: Heroic strikes are heroic enough when I have to deal with one guy that's determined to run ahead to the next checkpoint and leave all the enemies for someone else to deal with, and another who's AFK on his sparrow waiting for the final boss. If you're going to have added modifiers, then I need some way to get my level up to the point that the enemies don't kill me in a single shot (in the case of this week's solar burn Cabal snipers). I didn't expect to reach max light level on day 4, but this is beyond frustrating. I'm stuck around 343 (is that a Bungie in-joke?) and the only way seemingly to get above there is to complete events that I can't complete. Maybe next week's Heroic Gear will help. Also, every single exotic I got this week, except for those I bought from Xur, were duplicates of what I already had. Every. Single. One. So I guess the "smart exotic system" is still not on line?
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Eververse still must die!!!
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1 ReplyEdited by [ＳiＮ]大き氷: 5/14/2018 2:35:45 PMMy problems with the game aside rewards have the issue of being sparse and where they do exist it's a vendor doing it. There's nothing wrong with vendors, they are means to keep all players leveled to a certain degree. However the issue is it's focused on way too much. I'm going to ignore power level as a reward, but it can fit in this as well. It should have stayed at that base armor set, as nice looking as the ornaments are it emphasizes them too much. I get that there are seasons as a means to get people to play but still my point is as follows. Having new gear be something unique and that drops off of bosses, or anything out in the wild is much more exciting. When you see someone in the vanguard set you know where they got it from. However something that came from the wild has clues, gets players talking, and trying to find new things. That's what this game misses out on, and even if it was cosmetic it would still be a beneficial change in direction. Of course having the armor do things is even better. In terms of gear, focus should be on high end activities. In order of importance raids, strikes, trials, and things like escalation protocol or whatever other difficult stuff.
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11 RepliesEdited by Astellan: 5/14/2018 6:37:16 PMHere is the issue of the current Heroics. When you raise the difficulty of a matchmaking content you have to take into account the format and the players. Matchmaking content is the ultimate mix of players many who do not want to even deal with one another, because of this, any developer worth their salt knows that even if you have great players they are only going to be as good as the players in their group. So normally, anything that is based on pick up groups is generally easier because it is a mix of skills and players have no problem dropping group if things go wrong. I myself will leave a group if players do stupid things. A mission takes only but so long and I do not always have time. I am not going to sit in a group where people are slowing the content to a crawl because they aren't paying attention and just playing Rambo. A Heroic isn't supposed to be long arduos content. A heroic shouldn't take longer than a Nightfall. Nightfalls themselves are scoring you by the speed of your group and its efficient killing. You do not make high scores in Nightfalls by going slowly and methodically. It makes no sense that Nightfalls would be about speed runs while Heroics would be about slowing you down and slogging with a PUG (pick up group). Serious hard content is supposed to be for players who have dedicated groups. The funny thing is they did not change that. Content for dedicated groups hasn't been made harder and this is on purpose. The other thing that is interesting is a lot of the players that are so "pro" the Heroic changes are players that aren't even doing the content!
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From what I’ve seen that sounds bang on.
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Edited by Calevis24: 5/14/2018 6:04:10 PMSimply put these new modifiers make the enemy stronger. D1 heroic mods made US stronger. THAT is why people enjoyed them. Void week...build your Warlock with Obsidian Mind to be a devastating vehicle of void fury! POWER. It felt good! The little 25% bump we get now for singe is barely noticeable, especially when I can get one hit melee killed...but yet my mod that boosts my melee STILL won’t one shot something...we’ve been made weaker again. That’s what people don’t like. I wish they would stop ALMOST bringing back things from D1. Stop tweaking what was right. Bring it back like it was.
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1 ReplyWe say? That’s a little presumptuous. I is the pronoun you should use when referrring to yourself, unless you are the Queen of England where the use of the royal we is expected.
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1 ReplyEdited by BASSMANBTB4: 5/15/2018 3:49:31 AMConcerning heroic strikes, the loot system is seriously flawed. You can't get anything that's 350. I'm at 347 almost 348 and NO activity drops anything to help. Except for Iron Banner I don't do crucible cause I stink, ( I'll admit it). I have a Clan but there are never enough of us on to do raids so that's out. Having to depend on Weekly milestones that will only boost 1 or 2 items is waaaayyy too slow. Loot should drop between strikes, flashpoints adventures to where you can actually level. Kind of like it was doing before warmind came out. I agree with what I've read that heroics should be able to drop up to 360-365 depending on where your at as you progress. Speaking of heroics. The heroic adventures are about like doing a strike. They need to drop better gear. This dropping the same lame stuff as normal mode makes them pointless. In both cases, who wants to go through getting repeatedly slaughtered only to get jack for a reward. I like the heroics but the loot and leveling ability needs to improve. If I'm at 347 there should be 350's dropping like in D1 and D2 before warmind. Not constantly but I think a 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 ratio would be decent. You want to jack up all the level requirements to do certain activities but then not drop gear that gets us into those activities. its frustrating . The protocols or whatever they call the horde thing looks promising but maybe drop them down to 370. MOST of us are NOT PRO GAMER/ELITE players and if they are the only ones you are listening to, you're hosing the majority of your gamer base. The loot system was working but with warmind you messed it up with the levels and drops. Sorry so long. I really like the game but hours and hours of pointless grinding to get nothing for the effort makes me want to stop playing.
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There’s nothing wrong with the difficulty of gameplay but it’s the bugs such as doing heroic strikes with ikelos hand cannon equipped I have done 6 since I received the quest and it has only registered 2 getting pretty -blam!-ed off with it tbh I’m opening chests and getting jack shit sort it Bungie -blam!- sake
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350 requirement but get 336 endgram, bosses are raid difficult, element modifier only benefits the enemy, other elemental damage causes as much damage as the active modifier. When I thought there was nothing below rock bottom...
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There is an update incoming. Anything can happen. I was kinda curious would there be one this quickly. Now I am half fearful, half hopeful about what will change.
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I did the heroics earlier and don’t get the mile stone progress. Very annoying
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I'm sick of running strikes but have been enjoying the 15 or so heroic's I ran in the last week. Bongo make changes to the game like pond water moves. By the time they do anything, it will be too late, so heroic rewards are a somewhat of a mute point. Heroic rewards will drop at -10 of your max light. So they do increase. Most people should be able to get to 360 by the end of next week. The main issues with the DLC are EP not matching players with players. They need to allow more people in the same patrol zone or let us form 9 person teams. No way to level up, if you don't feel like doing the old raids. Competitive PVP loss penalty and poor matchmaking where teammates always leave and you are punished for it is going to kill the playlist. I would be surprised if bongo does anything before people stop playing again.
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I've done the strikes, and even with the Ikelos equipped, after 5 strikes, it says my milestone is at 67% and I don't even have a count towards Warmind's Glory...so I see my money was well spent on a game that was apparently DOA. Thanks bungie...
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1 ReplyAgree for the most part. I've found that I am stuck at 345 and won't get much further without more milestones. I get to play an hour or so a day max so after I ran through the story and the milestones for that week I attempted the heroics, and got my ass handed to me while realizing the difficulty of being underleveled again. For now I'll just do my clan xp, public events, and xur on fridays and then shut it off until Tuesday afternoon again until I can hit 350 and reasonably not be a drag to my teammates on heroic strikes. I stopped doing nightfall a while ago, before the new points format, because I don't have time to do it over and over again during the week adding the modifiers and redoing sections when we wipe. Glad to see bungie made this game and catered to those who do nothing but spend their time playing while leaving the rest of us average joes with jobs and families and responsibilities in the dust. From the raids to the leveling scheme to the whole pvp and pve debacle, my hour count going forward will show my interest level, but for quite some time, it's been pretty low and now that doing heroic strikes are not worth it until I get to 350, I'm relegated to spending a few minutes looking for groups doing escalation protocol, getting bored and shutting it off and going to do something else. But I'm glad your small section of people who can spend 8-12 hours a day are satisfied. At least someone got -blam!-ed and had the courtesy for a reacharound in the process.
