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9/25/2017 5:21:44 AM
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I just made 3 titans so I could get more stuff for that character. Now he's 305 with every set up I like except for my new favorite PvP set up. I plan on making two hunters so I can rank them up faster before I make my warlock.
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Edited by Goose: 9/25/2017 7:21:14 AMAlright, let me demonstrate math for you. If your goal is ONLY to get the highest light level possible, there is no advantage to using the same class three times. Destiny 2 is using a new gear level algorithm - the light level of gear is determined by the maximum light level of the character who earned it. That means that if you have three characters, you can use the first to increase the light level of the second before beginning to work on your second set of weekly drops. But here's the thing - since you can infuse any class's boots into any other class's boots, there is only one advantage to making a second character of the same class: you can transfer your armor between them instead of infusing it. However, the truth is that you don't need to. You'll be getting way more armor of the appropriate light level than you need to use to max out your active character's light level, and if you just transfer one set of blue garbage armor over to an alt, they will be at the exact same light level when you transfer over weapons. That means that even though there is one nominal "advantage" to having three titans, it doesn't actually save you any time at all. You still have to transfer 5 pieces of armor between characters no matter what, and it won't change your total light level by a significant amount. I would argue that it actually costs you more time to transfer your gear every single time than it does to just use spare drops to keep all three at the same light level. Everything else works out the same, so in reality, OP is spending almost exactly the same amount of time leveling 3 Titans as other-guy is spending leveling up a Titan, a Warlock, and a Hunter. That means that if you continue at the same rate, you will definitely be making twice as much work for yourself, because you will be leveling 6 characters instead of 3. That said, there is no reason for you to continue at the same rate for the reason I have already explained - if you have a 350 Light Titan, you can just send some 350 blue Titan armor over to your level 20 Warlock and infuse their Warlock armor to 350. There's no time saved your way. Edit: also, if your goal is just to diversify the loot drops for a given character, they've also reduced the amount of diversity. There is no more Strength, Intelligence, or Discipline - those are all replaced with mods, which are shared across your inventory, along with your glimmer, and are entirely unimpacted by the class of the character using them. It's potentially true that you might get specific class items more quickly by doing this, but the fact that loot tokens are shared across your account and amount of RNG in the weekly engrams makes this completely irrelevant. It won't save you much time even in the best case scenario, and might not save you any if you get bad RNG. That said, that's still only even relevant for the Powerful Gear engrams, and there are no cosmetic drops specific to those. Meanwhile, all the other engrams in the game are locked to tokens, and tokens are shared across all of your characters, again, regardless of their class. That means that no matter which class you are focusing on farming for, if your goal is to maximize your chances of getting a specific cosmetic set, the fastest way is to turn in all of your tokens to the correct NPC ON THAT CHARACTER. If you have three copies of that character, it won't make a difference, since you can only turn the tokens in once regardless. In other words, there is no speed advantage to leveling up three of the same class versus three different ones, and in fact, leveling up 6 characters is a huge waste of time compared to leveling up 3, and there is - at best - barely any increase to the diversity of your loot if you take that approach. I hope this ACTUAL DEMONSTRATION OF LOGIC AND MATH has taught you something, since Bungie very specifically addressed this issue and has gone out of their way to say that they were removing all the systemic advantages to making three of the same character.
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Ugh. This is the worst kind of bad advice. It's smug, insistent and COMPLETELY WRONG. I read further down and it was like going back in time. You're the kid who lied about beating a game, got called out, and then claimed "that's how it worked in MY game." A bug. Yeah. Right. A bug that only exists in YOUR copy of the game. You're a step below the kid whose "uncle works for Nintendo." Be a man and admit when you're just plain wrong!
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I stopped reading when you said that you can infuse one class's boots into another's. That's not possible in Destiny 2 like it is in Destiny 1. Gear infusion is no longer cross-class like it was in Destiny 1.
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Could never do it in destiny 1 or 2...you can't infuse titan armor into warlock armor or vice versa
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You could do it at the end of Destiny 1.
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Edited by Goose: 9/25/2017 7:27:30 AMWorked fine for me. Not sure which of us had the bug. Edit: but there was a lot more to the argument, regardless of whether or not my ability to infuse my Warlock gear into my Hunter's gear a few hours ago was a bug.
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Idk what to tell you man. It's not a thing like in D1. At least not for me and plenty of others that I know.
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Edited by Goose: 9/25/2017 7:44:02 AMHuh. Looks like the bug was for me, not you. Or else it broke since yesterday evening. I infused a whole set of Warlock armor into my Hunter's gear not six hours ago, but now it doesn't show up in the list for infusion. But regardless, there was more to the argument. Powerful gear engrams might save you a small amount of time leveling up your gear level, but there's no way they'll save you as much time as you'll lose leveling 6 characters instead of 3. Especially since high level weapons will raise your new character's light level significantly - when I fed my Warlock trash to my newly-minted Hunter, it was already 40 light levels higher than my Warlock was at the same point in play time. Edit: small correction. I didn't try to infuse a Warlock Bond into the Hunter Cloak - I didn't have a spare. Edit: maybe it's because I transferred the gear from my Warlock to my Hunter before the Hunter hit 20? I'm honestly baffled, and that does make your position seem much more reasonable. But I'm still not convinced that you'll save more time than you'll lose, so take from that what you will.
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It won't be a small amount of time saved. There's only a certain amount of things you can do on one character before you're purely depending on getting lucky with engrams or gear drops. When you have 3 of the same characters, you no longer have to wait for reset in order for guaranteed gear. There's automatically many more chances for that guaranteed gear added on top of how lucky you may be getting with exotic engrams or good gear drops. Idk how long it takes you to get a new character to level 20, but it would only take me a few hours and then I have an entire week of new powerful gear on top of the powerful gear I've already grabbed from other characters. It's the fastest way to get 1 character class to max level and it's already been proven. The people who had 3 of the same class at the start of the game were 300+ before anyone who didn't do the same and there's a reason for that. They had more access to powerful gear than the people who didn't do the same.
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You say it's been proven and provide anecdotal evidence to support your claim, but that isn't proof. I've got anecdotal evidence to the contrary - I have half a dozen friends who have been 300+ on 3 different classes since week 1, but I'm not trying to use that as a reason why you should believe me because that's bad logic. Give me some math and we'll have something to talk about - until then, this isn't really a discussions.
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The fact that you rely purely on numbers in order for someone else's point to be valid is just naive. Especially in an argument like this, to dismiss my argument simply because it's literally not possible for me to know the actual numbers literally don't make any sense. There are no numbers to provide with a situation such as this. The argument isn't that simple. The fact is that when you don't use the 3 character method, you sacrifice time that could be spent leveling up a single character just so all your characters can be decent level. That's what I've been arguing this whole time, the speed at which I can get 1 class to 305. When you stack guaranteed gear on top of RNG gear, you're going to get there faster than if you were to rely simply on luck, it's that simple.
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But that's still relying on simple luck, and you're talking about 4-8 extra engrams that CAN, but won't ALWAYS, increase your light level every week. Even in the best case scenario, you're not saving a whole lot of time, and you're only saving it over the course of several weeks. You're totally entitled to do that if you think it's the most efficient way, but to claim that it is "the fastest way to level a character up" without providing any evidence, then giving me shit for REQUESTING evidence, is...that's bullshit. That's garbage arguing. If you can't defend your point, just admit that it might not be the fastest way and that you don't have the data to prove one way or the other - don't try to convince me that you've got the logical high ground when you can't AND won't defend your argument with sound logic. -_- To be clear, I don't have a horse in this race - I'm gonna play the way I find the most fun, regardless of how fast it is, and I think everyone else should do the same. But if you're gonna claim that one way is provably the fastest way to do a thing, I expect you to back that up with cold hard facts.
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Even if you're still relying on luck. You get more chances to get lucky. And no, asking for evidence that is literally impossible for me to provide is garbage arguing. Not a single person I know of has timed exactly how long it takes to get a singular class to 305. But with the evidence provided, it's clearly the faster way to level. It's just obvious that someone who provides themselves with extra chances to get powerful gear is ALWAYS going to be the one who gets to 305 faster on that character every single time. That's a simple, clear, solid fact that you could see if you were to turn on your console right now. But for you to ask for numbers that don't exist and then dismiss my argument because I can't provide them doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Those numbers are not solid, they don't exist. For those numbers to exist, I would have to gather many control groups and organize them all to set aside at least a week of free time for them to grind out leveling both of the different ways we're arguing about and time themselves accurately. I'm sorry but I don't have the time, resources, or any way to ever provide the exact numbers you're looking for. If not being able to do all that in order to provide all your perfect little numbers makes me garbage at arguing, then I'm sorry but that logic just makes 0 sense. And as a matter of fact, you've already admitted you're wrong. You keep trying to argue, "eh, well it doesn't take long if you do it my way, you don't save that much time your way" to try and make a point. I'm arguing pure speed, it doesn't matter the amount of time it saves, the point is that it saves time. You said it yourself that I may save some time but "not a lot", whatever not a lot is, that's not what I care about, it's time saved and that's it. Very simple. I'm looking for the method that will get me there the fastest period. Not the method that's like "eh, you'll get there soon enough". My method is the method that's the fastest period.
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Edited by Goose: 9/25/2017 8:56:34 AMNo, I admitted that I was wrong about one facet of my multi-faceted explanation of why YOU were wrong. And that was reasonable, as part of my argument was flawed. But the overarching argument remains perfectly reasonable. But you keep insisting that your argument - not supported by any sources or any math or anything except the same "I heard some people say this was the fastest and it seems that way to me so I don't have to provide any evidence to back up my claims" over and over - is valid. You might even be right, but you refuse to make any effort to prove it, despite having claimed that your way was "provably" the best. If you don't see why I'm so disdainful of that position, I don't know what to tell you. If it's provable, that means you have proof or the capacity to prove it. You now say that you don't, but that you were still correct in your claims - your claim being, again, that your way was "provably" the fastest. Do whatever you want - I don't care. But if you're going to make audacious claims about what is true and expect people to listen, provide some evidence or choose your words better. Edit: also, you don't need control groups or experiments for a mathematical proof. Random number theory isn't the same as a controlled experiment, and any first-year math student could tell you all the reasons that your argument is nonsense even if your conclusion is right. Which, again, you have not provided any math or evidence to support.
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I'm not making the claim based on "oh well I heard this person say it" I've experienced it, used it, and have seen many other players do the same and get 1 single character ranked up much faster than people who did otherwise. You talk about trying to use multiple facets to prove me wrong. This isn't a multi-faceted argument. The ONLY thing I'm arguing is raw speed. You can't go up to someone who says one Lamborghini is faster than the other and then go "Oh but I had more fun in the slower one and that's how people should drive". That wasn't the original argument. You're making up random facets in a desperate attempt to prove yourself right when there was originally nothing for you to be right about. It doesn't make sense. And what do you not understand about the fact that it's literally impossible for me to provide your little all-knowing numbers and that it wouldn't be possible for me to get them for months on end? It is not possible. No one has those numbers. When there are no raw numbers to provide for an argument, you use other factors to prove your point. You can't sit here and call me wrong over and over for not providing numbers that don't and cannot exist. It. Is. Not. Physically. Possible. For. The. All. Knowing. Numbers. That. You. Want. To. Exist. At. This. Moment. In. Time.
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Edited by Goose: 10/1/2017 4:47:02 PMThat wasn't the argument I was making, actually, so..nice strawman. But I'll pretend that claim has merit and start again from scratch. Let me explain to you my experience and the experience of the majority of my clan, most of whom have full-time jobs preventing them from playing 10 hours a day. We bought the game, cleared a character through the story, ground for a little while until the light began to slow down around 260-265, then did each of the powerful gear engrams (except the raid in week one) one at a time, then did our exotic quests. This happened over the course of a week or so for most of us, getting us from level 1 to over light level 260 in one sitting. The next week, clearing our Powerful Gear engrams (except the raid) got me over light level 280 and some of my clanmates over light level 290. That puts any new player easily above raid-ready in no more than 7 days of playing an hour or two here and there, not even every day. I got my then-only character from newly-made to light level 280 in about ten hours of play time without entering the raid. Clearing the raid for the first time got many of my guildmates up to or over light level 300, and in the first week I tried it I broke 290 even though I didn't clear Calus before the reset - my mistake for waiting until Monday night to begin my first run. I also did my exotic quests really early, resulting in a pretty significant loss of light level gains on my way up. So after owning the game for 8 days and putting in no more than 2 hours a day of productivity, I was nudging up against the light cap and 99% of my clan was ahead of me in the same timeframe. After I got my Warlock through the raid, I made a new character. I transferred over my weapons and some spare blue armor to my newly-made Hunter, and about 6 hours later my Hunter was 3 light levels lower than my Warlock in time for her very first run through the raid, after which she was the same light level as my main. I've already explained the weird bug that let me skip some 10 light levels up on my Hunter, but with just the weapons equipped, she was within 15 light levels of my Warlock literally the minute she hit level 20, which put me past the hump that had slowed me down when leveling my first character. Just for the record, though, I also made a Titan the other day. By that point, I had 305 weapons for every slot because the game actually makes getting top-level gear ridiculously easy when you have multiple characters over 290, which again, took around 12-14 total hours to do. I tried to replicate the bug that had let me cheese up my Hunter, but it didn't work, but putting 305 weapons on my newly-20 Titan had him over 280 within minutes of hitting 20, and by the evening of the day I made him, he was light level 298 with no purple mods in his armor. As of right now, my Titan has not gone through the raid yet. This has been the experience of every player I have played with, and the experience of every player I have helped along. Being competent enough to clear the raid does help by giving you some extra high-end loot, but it is by no means necessary to breach 290 within hours of hitting level 20. The game is nowhere near as RNG-dependent as you are portraying it, and if you do MOST of the weekly events that the game offers each of your characters, as long as you don't turn them all in at once, you will breeze through the 265 hump in no time. Your initial claim was that it is faster to level three of the same toon, then two of the same toon, then a last toon, because having access to multiple Powerful Gear engram weeklies is integral to advancing. Since this thread is about advancing beyond 265 specifically, you SEEM to be implying that the Powerful Gear engrams are essential to progress beyond 265, and that there is a significant amount of time saved by making three Warlocks before doing anything else. The thing is, though, without having ANY alts, I got my first character well past the 265 hump THE FIRST WEEK HE EXISTED, and I messed up a lot of it on the way. If you want a REAL way to save time, here it is: hit 265 before doing any of your Exotic quests or Powerful Gear engrams, then do each of those one at a time to maximize the returns on investment. That way, you are virtually guaranteed to break 290 within your first 7 days, which totally negates the stated benefit of redundant questing on alts of the same class. It might be the fastest way to rush 305, but even if that is true - which as you have stated multiple times there is no way to prove, despite your simultaneous claims that it is "provably the fastest way" - I defy you to convince the nearly 90% of Destiny players who haven't beaten the raid by today that hitting 305 is even relevant. So there you go - a case made that doesn't hinge at all on any of the claims you've made before, despite the fact that your justification in asking for this new argument was based in a strawman interpretation of an argument you say you "stopped reading." Have fun with it. But since this entire discussion is totally unrelated to the thread it's happening in, maybe we can drop it now?
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Waste of time...
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How so?
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I have 1 of each class and they are 304 304 and 305. There is no need to make 3 titans and then 2 hunters just to "level up faster"
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Not really. Statistically speaking, having multiple characters of one single class is the fastest way to level up. Just because you've managed to level up 3 separate characters does not make my method obsolete or a waste of time. I'm looking for the fastest way to level up period. Not the "eh, I'll make it there eventually" way that you've chosen.
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That explains why I'm way ahead of you in leveling all 3 classes.
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No, the fact that I haven't even began leveling on my hunter or warlock is what explains that.
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I'm 304/304/305. You are 305/0/0. Which way is faster? I wonder.
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I have 0 time on Hunter or Warlock in D2. I haven't even tried leveling them yet. And somehow that makes you faster than me? What?
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Just because your opponent hasn't raced you yet doesn't make you faster man. What are you even saying.
