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10/26/2015 5:27:42 PM
9
Guns. Don't. Kill. People.
My guns have never harmed anything. Living or inanimate. I however, have. With my guns.
You can rest assured that if you approach me inside rule 20 and make it known to me consciously or subconsciously that you wish harm on me or mine, i will be the one charged with justifiable homicide, not my gun
I carry. Always. Along with my gun, i have 46 other reasons my family will stay safe under my watch.
No. My gun doesn't kill people. My gun is just a tool
I am the weapon.
English
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I'm having a hard time understanding the relevance of this "speech". I don't think anyone here argues that a gun on its own is responsible for killing people.
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[quote]I'm having a hard time understanding the relevance of this "speech". I don't think anyone here argues that a gun on its own is responsible for killing people.[/quote] I read constantly that people think of you have the ability to get a gun, then deaths will occur. Most people that kill people with guns have not acquired said weapon through legal means. That just means that it makes no difference what laws were or were not in place. The relevance of my "speech" is to show that if a person wants to commit a murder, then in their head, they've broken a fundamental law of society and it really doesn't matter what other laws are in place. Restrict firearms legally, and you'll just be restricting an honest man's ability to protect himself from someone who doesn't give a shit about life and liberties.
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[quote]I read constantly that people think of you have the ability to get a gun, then deaths will occur. [/quote]Well, it is a lot more likely statistically. It's obviously no necessity that a gun will lead to deaths, but gun ownership has been demonstrably linked to significantly higher rates of suicide, (gun) homicide, fatal gun accidents, domestic abuse taking a turn for the worse and so on. It's far from a certainty, but the link is there. [quote]Most people that kill people with guns have not acquired said weapon through legal means. [/quote]Most mass shooters do, however, and most people using illegal guns to kill directly obtained them from someone who bought the firearm legally (straw purchases and the legal market directly fueling the black market). [quote]That just means that it makes no difference what laws were or were not in place. [/quote]Completely wrong. Disincentives have been proven to work dozens of times. They provide obstacles for criminals, decrease the "time to crime" from legally purchased firearms, decrease theft of guns and generally decrease gun violence rates. [quote]The relevance of my "speech" is to show that if a person wants to commit a murder, then in their head, they've broken a fundamental law of society and it really doesn't matter what other laws are in place. Restrict firearms legally, and you'll just be restricting an honest man's ability to protect himself from someone who doesn't give a shit about life and liberties.[/quote]Again, completely and factually incorrect, as backed up by large amounts of research. The "bad guy with a gun" and "criminals don't follow laws" claims have been debunked numerous times.
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So you are saying that the military shouldn't have firearms? Or the police?
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I don't even want to ask how you came to that conclusion by reading my post.
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I don't have the ability in my phone to do the nice quote them answer deal, like you just did, so i will just say this. Most of the things i mentioned, that you "debunked" were not in fact debunked by tried and true methods, but people such as yourself tend to stick to those statistics over others, so i won't argue. Also, straw purchases mean that one guy legally buys a gun for someone that couldn't, legally. That doesn't mean i legally bought a gun and you stole it from me, which is what happened in most mass shooting cases.
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[quote]but people such as yourself tend to stick to those statistics over others, so i won't argue. [/quote]What an idiot I am, sticking to data taken directly from governmental organizations (CDC, FBI, National Gang Center...), numerous peer reviewed studies having appeared in reputable journals of law, criminology, public health and policy, several universities and independent research institutions (Harvard, Yale, John Hopkins...), findings supported by accredited jurists, criminologists, economists and researchers, and global research done by experts for international organizations and spanning groups in numerous countries. You're right, I'm sure that all of them are biased bullshit statistics. [quote]Also, straw purchases mean that one guy legally buys a gun for someone that couldn't, legally. That doesn't mean i legally bought a gun and you stole it from me, which is what happened in most mass shooting cases.[/quote]I know, that is why I put "and" in that sentence as a distinction between straw purchases on the one hand and stolen guns on the other. That being said, you're again wrong. A very large part of mass shootings were commited with legally bought guns. http://www.bustle.com/articles/114372-this-shocking-infographic-about-mass-shootings-shows-just-how-many-legal-guns-are-involved http://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/ http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/01/shooting-in-oregon-11-essential-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-america/ http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/10/how_roseburg_newtown_and_other_mass_shooters_got_their_guns.html http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/425013/oregon-shooter-obtained-all-his-guns-legally-charles-c-w-cooke http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map If you have any sources showing me that most mass shooters used stolen guns, I'll gladly have a look at them.
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As i stated before. I'm on my phone. Also. At work. I don't have any statistics to show you. None. Not a single one. So i guess that makes me unprepared. What it will boil down to is you believing what you want, and I'll do the same. No amount of what i could show you will push you to my side of the argument, and I'm afraid that would be mutual for me as well. Most of what i read doesn't come from biased news agencies that are wholly owned by whoever has the most money. If that's what you watch or read, good for you. This is my last post on this subject, if you want to consider yourself having won this fight, do so. You can have it. I'll go be me. Defending people like you.
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Edited by Flee: 10/26/2015 7:18:53 PM[quote]As i stated before. I'm on my phone. Also. At work. I don't have any statistics to show you. None. Not a single one. So i guess that makes me unprepared. [/quote]Fair enough. I appreciate your honesty and can't (or don't) expect you to go out of your way for this. [quote]What it will boil down to is you believing what you want, and I'll do the same. No amount of what i could show you will push you to my side of the argument, and I'm afraid that would be mutual for me as well. [/quote]I have to disagree. I think it's pretty close-minded to assert from the very start of a discussion that nothing is going to change your mind. I like to think I come from a pretty unbiased background here. I have no reason to support strict or lax gun control due to my own feelings towards guns, as they simply aren't there. I have reached my opinion through a lot of debates and research on my end, but ultimately all I care about here is the truth and what's best for society. Good evidence could definitely sway my opinion on gun control and private gun ownership. [quote]Most of what i read doesn't come from biased news agencies that are wholly owned by whoever has the most money. If that's what you watch or read, good for you. [/quote]Then I'm curious as to what you have read, to be honest. Most pro-gun things I've read come from NRA bought research, nearly fraudulent researchers like Lott and Kleck, or backwater blogs. If you'd read the articles I linked, you'd see that the news agencies are simply reporting on the findings of other reputable institutions rather than having done their own surveys. Same goes for the clearly leftist sources that still base their findings on data supplied by police departments and governmental organizations. [quote]This is my last post on this subject, if you want to consider yourself having won this fight, do so. You can have it. I'll go be me. Defending people like you.[/quote]Shame. I'm bored and in class myself. This is pretty interesting to me, and I don't consider myself to have "won". Regardless, it was fun talking to you. Have a good day.
