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#feedback

1/26/2015 12:22:38 AM
73

PVE players are being left behind

I've been playing Destiny since day one. I think its a pretty good fps. The changes that have been made to the game since launch, in my opinion, and just my personal thoughts to come, have pretty much hurt the people who play only the environmental part of the game. I will attempt to point out, again, what I see personally as the problems with the updates. The biggest one being, we have been ham stringed with one vendor for weapons and one vendor for gear. There are 3 other factions in the tower, and then the crucible vendor. I don't understand why there are so many vendors for the crucible gear in a game that is supposed to be about exploration and uncovering a huge story. In the days before one of the updates, you could pick up and grind to collect material like spinmetal or relic iron and trade it in for either vanguard or crucible marks. Bungie eliminated this option by choosing to cater to people who felt that it was too much of a grind to go out into the world and pickup the abundant amount of material available. Instead, they want you to cash in the precious vanguard/crucible marks to obtain the same material. Meanwhile, those of us who had the ability to trade for crucible marks and shop the different vendors and factions, were now left with but a single vendor for each. Next, they created chain quest, that again, required you to go into the crucible to complete. Again, for a game that is supposed to be all about exploration, it herds you towards multiplayer. The latest example, and to me the worst, is the Husk of the Pit drop that requires you to complete its upgrade by going into the raid, which is something else i will touch on shortly. Speaking of the raid, I hate to tell you Bungie, but not everyone has tons of friends on their list. I understand that you want the raid to be about teamwork and people knowing each other and to work together without quitting, but yet you dont seem to mind so much the people who quit out of the strike playlist while you are essentially doing the same thing. Working together. I dont understand that in a game all about choices, that you take the most basic choice away from the player. Whether to stick it out together in a pick up group or not. All games are that are team games are going to have some kind of person or people who quit. Its a fact of modern gaming. I just think the choice should be left to the gamers. I also understand that you guys are HUGE multiplayer gaming guys, and thats fine for people who like to do that alot. It shouldnt be though, what carries a story driven narrative. The longevity of the game should be based on content and whats added, not multiplayer which seems to get the lions share of the attention. We have had 1 environmental event, The Queen's Bounty since launch. Since that time there have been more Iron Banner events, and multiplayer maps added to the game, while the recent dlc was rehashed areas we as guardians have run through a hundred times before. Again odd for a game with a huge 10 year story plan. Now I know there are those of you who will read this and say "if you dont like the game dont play it". I play the game because i think the shooting mechanics are solid and I enjoy the environments. Yes I choose not to play pvp, but I know Im not the only one who feelsl this way, Before the game was launched, Bungie promised a game that you could play "your way of choosing without missing out and being able to progress". Yes I can do that, but they have in turn, taken alot of the opportunities for variety away from me, and to me, that takes away from what they promised. Again, these are my own personal observations of the game and just something I needed to get off my chest. I have faith that Bungie will right the ship and get the game going in the direction that it should be. Just look at what an incredible story and universe they created with Halo. I know they can tell an amazing story. I just feel in a game such as this, if we as the player are supposed to have freedom of choice over how we play and we grow our character, then it should be just that. Freedom of choice and not the choices that we are forced to make.
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#feedback

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  • I am a competitive player, I find it fun. But having played games like WoW,I think PvE players should have that option to grind material and trade it in if they so wish for crucible marks.

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  • Destiny is lacking because they butchered it to sell off in different chunks. It's like if I was a farmer and I was promised a fine healthy cow that I had bought by paying advance. When it came time to receive it, instead of receiving a whole healthy animal, I got a tenderloin. Upon asking where my cow was I was asked what I was talking about, and that I had received it. If I wanted MORE though, I could opt to pay for the rest of it separate chunks, at a high cost for each cut of meat. Destiny is like that cow, we were promised something whole, complete, and overall amazing. However, when the time came, we weren't given what we were promised, just a small butchered chunk of it. That chunk wasn't horrible by any means (tenderloins are one of the best cuts of meat available) but it was far from what we were promised, and we are now given the option to pay more money to buy back what we already paid for. Destiny was supposed to be like a living breathing organism that had an epic story and an even more epic world. It was supposed to be hugely different from other gaming experiences and even include worlds that terraformed. It was supposed to include trading and gambling, and sparrow racing. It was none of these things, and didn't deliver on any of these. That's why people are pissed. We bought it because we were promised a whole and healthy cow, but we're only given a freaking tenderloin instead.

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  • Can't agree more about marks and vendors. They gotta somehow trick people into grinding the crucible out I guess. They certainly aren't using interesting game types to do so

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  • PvE, computer enemies include the raid, you can get to 32 by playing PvE so don't even say it.

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  • I'm another one of those older gamers that doesn't have any RL friends to farm for groups and I'm terrible at PVP. Because it's very difficult for me to get into a group, I miss out on a lot of game content. For the most part, people responding to this thread seem to be in favor of an in game grouping mechanic with good reason. I've seen a few posts against it but I find their reasoning seriously suspect. I'm assuming that if you're against this mechanic it's because you're able to find groups without this help and for some reason you want everyone else to do it that way. Also, I've read a few complaints that people don't want to get stuck in a pug with players that don't have the lvl or gear to successfully do the raid. I think that could easily be remedied by strict controls on being allowed to use a grouping feature so it doesn't happen. If you're not level x with lvl y weapons, you're not allowed in. Now if you can find a voluntary group to let you go, that's fine. Personally, I've been on Lvl 30 for a while, and it's difficult to get farther because I can't get in groups for end game content. I'm sure I've got good enough gear to be a valuable member of a team, I just can't find a fire team.

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    • Warframe........

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    • Funny... First you complain pve players are being left behind, then you say this game is all about exploration?! WHERE DID YOU HEARD/SAW THAT?! Then you complain about raid because you don't have enough friends. I think you are the problem.

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    • I can agree on your points of the crucible marks. It makes little sense that you can rank up faction reputation without playing PVP, but you cannot buy their gear without grinding out crucible marks. So I will give you that one. There should be another system or even another set of vendors. Having said that though the two main vendors are the only two that got revamped in appearance, so those of us that enjoy using specific faction items were kinda ripped off when the DLC came out and our gear looked exactly the same! Now on to the raid. If I misconstrued what was being said I apologize. I read a lot of forum posts so these extremely long ones tend to get skimmed over more than read in detail. The game is a multiplayer game. It requires you to be online to play and it pushes you into meeting new players by means of public events, matchmaking strikes, and the crucible. You are also frequently in a full tower which gives you plenty of potential for meeting new players as well as using the LFG or forums. Finding friends to run a raid is your responsibility. It took me forever! It was a lot of stalking the tower for raid groups and/or adding random people from strikes to my friends list. It is not easy, but it is a process you have to endure on your own. It does come quickly once you start though because then your new friends have friends and eventually it becomes easier. Raid gear for casuals (and by casuals I mean the non-raiders). It would be completely unacceptable for equivalent gear to drop from anywhere but the raid. The fact is the gear in the tower is more than enough to get you through anything this game has to offer. Even a level 31 can run the Hard Raid (except maybe the sword bearer. I have yet to run the hard raid with a 31 sword bearer). You can do nightfalls, which are extremely easy to find people for in the tower considering most can be done solo. Adding one more person weakens the load a lot. So 32 is just a standing that not only makes the raid easier, but it separates the non-raiders from the raiders. Any multiplayer based game these days is going to have legendary gear for the non-raiding community, but the gear from a big raid will always be better! As for the husk of the pit you can get up to the legendary without going into the raid once. I see no reason to give out a trophy weapon without completing the hardest task that the game has to offer. I would type more, but I have some work to do at the office. Hope things work out for you man. Multiplayer games are frustrating for people that have to watch people that play for 8 hours a day get all of the good gear while the average joe has to stick with the middle equipment. Unfortunately it is the way these loot-based multiplayer games work...

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      • You don't need to go in the raid to upgrade the husk of the pit

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        • Well said. I play Destiny for the pve. If I wanted pointless pvp I could play other crappy games. Im not even sure why guardians would be fighting each other with the whole world on the brink of extinction, but ok.. The thing that kills me is the utter lack of LFG functions for high-end pve content, as you mentioned. I already paid for HoW so they still have time to fix it, but if they can't get it sone by then, well, that means they don't want to. At that point I guess I would take my $100 investment and turn it into a $5 trade in, if I can still get that much by then. It's damn near impossible to comprehend what kind of convoluted logic must have been employed by the assholes in management to suggest that an online-only "social" game should be released devoid of any standard in-game grouping or clan functions.

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          • [b]About Faction vendors:[/b] Yes there are 3 faction vendors, yes you have to use crucible marks to purchase things... so I get that is lopsided. That said, it doesnt really matter. The extra faction gear is mostly pointless... sure it may be itemized a little better with you primary stats, but min-maxing 33 light gear is really of little value. You will replace all vendor gear anyway. It is a stepping stone for level of entry. [b]About Chain quests:[/b] I assume you are talking about exotic chains, as Eris's chains are all pve. This is a reoccurring topic of debate on the boards. I understand that there are a number of pve players that do not want to play pvp. But there are also pvp players that dont want to do 25 strikes. What I dont understand is that so many ppl are up in arms about feeling, as you say, herded into multiplayer. But lets be far, all of the pvp portions of the chain quests are fairly easy to complete, even if you consistently have a negative kdr. Second, and perhaps more importantly, the pvp portion (if one exists) of a chain quest comprises only ONE portion. If anything the chain quests clearly cater to the PvE player, NOT the pvp player. [b]Raid MM:[/b] I am on the fence about raid MM. I have played quite a few MMOs in the past, and while MM seems like a logical good idea... I have seen it ruin the game, disconnect the community, and have negative repercussions you wouldnt expect. However there are numerous MM websites for destiny that you can find a raid group within minutes if used correctly. There are also guild recruitment threads on these very boards. If you dont have 5 other friends playing destiny, perhaps its time to make some. [b]Events and the DLC:[/b] I agree, although the first Queen's Wrath was a huge flop (especially after they nerfed the shard farming), it seems odd there hasnt been much of anything in the way of PvE events. There really needs to new event or updates Queen's Wrath soon. The pending Trials of Osiris seems to be even more competitive PVP than IB. I have to strongly disagree about the DLC however, it was overwhelmingly PvE oriented. PvP saw three new maps and thats it. PvE got 1/2 new strikes, 3 story missions, quests, and a raid. Now yes, there is a LOT of rehashed content... but I dont think it is a slight against PvE players, but more a symptom of one of the root problems with Destiny all together (but thats a whole other thread). [b]Story:[/b] We can certainly agree here. The game needs an injection of story like a diabetic needs insulin. Funny article on Forbes the other day about it. [b]Playing the way you want to:[/b] I also agree here... Bungie certainly promoted the idea of creating your own legend, however the game has been anything but. There is a very strict progression and very little customization. Unfortunately, this is a fundamental design philosophy in the groundwork of the game. It is not something that can get patched in. At best we will have to wait for Destiny 2 to even hope for a more unique experience between players, but for what I have seen, I wouldnt hold my breath. [b]tl;dr[/b] I agree with some of your assessment and disagree with others. Thanks for sharing.

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          • I can sympathize with the OP because I too am a PvE-only player. But moreso than that, I am really a completely solo player. I would play in a group if that group consisted of RL friends, but as an older gamer, few of my RL friends game anymore, and of those that do, none play consoles, much less my console. So while I could indeed use the various LFG sites, I don't want to. So that means I will never reach the light cap, nor will I ever, I guess, get an elemental primary. The first doesn't bother me at all because I don't need to be at the level cap to do anything but HM raids anyways. But not having elemental primaries does hurt a bit, because one of the most useful places for those are the weeklies with burns. I can tell the OP that you can do quite well for yourself as a solo PvEer, but you have to be able to do the weekly heroic and nightfall solo. It used to be pretty easy until they raised the difficulty bar before TDB even with normal 300 weapons. It did get harder afterwards, and then harder still once TDB released and the level went up from 28 to 30. It took me a few weeks to get enough 331 weapons--and this is where not being able to buy Crucible and faction gear hurts--at the Vanguard, there's only 1 sniper, MG, and RL sold, and their element is fixed. So you have to rely on drops to get the other elements. Plus, if you like HCs, the best legendary is TFWPKY, which is a faction item. But nevertheless, I have a fairly good inventory right now, and managed both of the past two weekks' NFs without too much difficulty. But I'm a bit worried what will happen when HoW gets released. Will the NF difficulty scale higher than I can scale w/o raid gear? I hope not.

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            • I'll cut right to the raid match making. NO. Reason why. Say I was level 23 and my friend was 24. We both wanted to do the vault of glass. It says it's only level 26, can't be that bad, right. Hey look we got paired with a couple 27's, a 28 and a 31. Think this raid is going to end in success?

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              • The only fallacy in your feedback is that while pvp players have a greater range of gear to shop from; that gear is inferior to gear won through pve. Honestly, I stopped reading when you said "precious vanguard and crucible marks". Getting the 200 max is beyond easy; and the only purpose to them is buying material.. I mean yeah I'll buy gear, just to scrap it and make room for more marks. Quality > quantity really. And it isn't anyone's fault I'm afraid but your own that you can't scrounge up 5 other ppl to raid with you. There are a number of resources out there for this purpose. It's like your town was flooded and instead of walking your precious self down the the evacuation center, you expected them to come pick you up. Good luck with that.

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                • I think the core point of logic in your argument, is that there are two different types of marks for weapons purchase and the majority of the vendors use Crucible marks. There should only be one kind of mark and one kind of commendation (those are there to force grinding, though not too hard to get) and they should work at any vendor. I think the original vision of the game was probably very different from what we have today due to the fact that the development team fell apart. As to how and why, I don't know, but if the differences were great enough to cause the lead to go then I must imagine a very different game was intended and perhaps what we have in Destiny One is a sort of slapdash last minute thing put together with parts and in ways that kept Bungie from having to pay royalties to the departed. 300+ weapons and level 30+ armor seem to be less than well thought out ways to tease/force us into buying the updates and the fact that they sort of screw those who busted their humps to get high speed kit before the DLC seems to have come back to bite Bungie, just as an example. I can imagine a game where all three of the raids all yielded gear that was equivalent and which top-level gear you wear was based on choice and not on the need to have high end kit just to compete.The new raid armor and weapons look like they have a skin condition IMO and I hate wearing the armor and have scrapped the weapons I have gotten just because they look like crap. What I wouldn't give for 331/32 VoG gear...

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                • Edited by FatzDomingo: 1/27/2015 12:20:14 AM
                  Bungie suckered in both PvE & PvP players at release. Neither have got what they expected or as described by Bungie, but nor did they expect a publisher of Bungies calibre to stuff them so ignominiously! I really hate any PvP in any game. I'm quite content to play against the environment. But I agree that I am limited to 25% of the purchasable goodies despite doing bounties for all factions. In the Clan I joined, I have spoken to more members who consider themselves mainly PvE players than not! It seems that a very vocal group, perhaps even a minority, are badgering, screaming and flaming their perspective on Bungie to morph a decent game into a COD clone! Since Bungie has all of our email addresses, gamer tags etc, the only way to get a perspective on choice of play would be to email or contact every registered player account with a request to declare for PvE or PvP. Then with solid numbers Bungie could declare and plan for the future. Continuous bickering and insults from flamers about "getting over" liking PvP or not is somewhat purile and of no use whatsoever. Oh, and good original post! Well thought out and articulated!

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                  • I want to thank everyone who has chimed in. Its great to come and read all of the different opinions, ideas and such about how we all feel and view this game. Ive been a big Bungie fan for years. Played Halo til my fingers bled. In the end, its US the gamers that are going to hopefully bring about change. Keep the thoughts and ideas and opinions coming. Who knows, maybe someone will sit up and take notice.

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                  • Edited by Verobe: 1/26/2015 2:20:41 PM
                    The reason there isn't match making is due to the way people are. This is just a wild guess but I'd said 80 percent of the teams that are simply manufactured would never work. Mic issue level issue and gear issue will abound. And then who would be squad leader how do you kick someone out? The raids are much harder and longer then strikes and the match making would ruin the game for many. People have this wired quality to instantly think negatively about an experience without fully delving or investing the needed time. People tend to poopoo something for minor infractions or problems. So being stuck on 3 raid teams where you have new guys that don't know the raid, guys that don't have strong weapons or people that don't want to follow strategies will turn many off the raid. The sites we use now to find players wouldn't exist without the lack of matchmaking. Could you imagine these raids with mandatory random teams (as I shiver in disgust) this game would be even worst then it already is.

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                    • Great post. Per raids...I put together a raw group of strangers and we did great on Crota's End. I now have 3 solid friends from that run...if Bungie would just allow matchmaking on raids, the group would either work together and succeed (or not) and that is what life is all about. Bungie just does not trust players to police themselves. Trust me...a majority of Destiny players are good hard playing people...I would raid with any of them.

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                      • What i find interesting is that looking up the game achievements, and you see the achievement for completing a raid. It is only a small percentage, 16.8% for ps4 (dunno if it includes ps3), so out of every 100, only 17 have completed a raid while the other 83 have not, and yet the amount of work and focus that bungie does for raids is the opposite. Now of course PSN could be wrong and the percentages don't account for people who left the game i assume without trying any raid/s, or maybe the number of people who do it is significantly higher on other platforms. I gave the IB of last iteration a go, didn't particularly enjoy it but did it to complete one of the exotic bounties that railroad you into pvp. Still i would like to see queens wrath return sooner not later, so i might have something different. Raids are part of the game, PvE is part of the game, PvP is part of the game. Bungie you need to spend time ON ALL THREE aspects of this game, not one, not two, but THREE and sorry but 3 missions with a strike or two and some bounties is not worth celebrating especially when it is/was $20 for them. So why is it that the vast majority of patching has been done to address Raids and to a lesser extent PvP (mainly weapon balancing and IB tweaks) while PvE is largely ignored.

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                      • I agree the raid should not take center stage. If this game wants to survive till the end of 2015 then the raid needs matchmaking or some form of in game option for people to get in touch and do raids. That goes for the nightfall too. Also, players should not be forced to play pvp to experience content they payed for. They took out the mats for marks option of trade in order to force people into the crucible. It was shady and tasteless. They still hide behind the excuse of people not wanting to go on a patrol and collect materials. I don't buy it, that's a lie. Unfortunately I don't think Bungie cares. If they cared it would have been in the game from the start. I think a lot of players are going to be really upset when when HOW arrives. I just see a lot of ill thought out changes coming. I think we'll see major portions of players not playing Destiny anymore by June or July this year. That's really just unfortunate. I for one will not be pre ordering games anymore, solely based on what happened with Destiny.

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                      • I mentioned in a topic quite some time ago that PvE needs a recurring equivalent to Iron Banner - which is PvP with it's own special gear & weapons... the game is unbalanced, punishing those who prefer not to PvP.

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                      • Edited by Azreal80: 1/27/2015 2:21:49 AM
                        I agree. I'm tired of multiplayer. Very very tired of LFG groups and dealing with that mess. I know people will say it's a MMORPG and what did I expect. I just want a PvE game. Let me play solo and still get access to some great weapons and gear and not feel so excluded. I hate multiplayer when it's forced.

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                      • Pre ordering Destiny and then playing it was like finding out Hanible Lector has been feeding me somebody's dick for a month and didn't even know it.

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                      • Considering that... 1. The Raids are the only way to reach the lvl cap, 2. You have to do weekly strikes to get a reasonable amount of strange coins, and 3. The Nightfall is one of your best shots for non-Raid exotics, I think PvE players have more than they think. Also, almost every Eris bounty is for PvE, so the only realistic way to lvl that rank up requires PvE as well. Considering that you could only get ONE light +36 armor piece from Iron Banner and two-four guns (which are equal to or less than Raid guns), PvP players don't actually get anything meaningful in the end. I'm not saying that I don't want more events for both PvP and PvE, but I think it's the PvP guys who get short-changed with Raid-only lvl 32 gear. I mean, what can you get in the Crucible that you can't get in PvE?

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                        • Bump

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