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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
10/23/2014 11:52:42 AM
237

How did we lose the war?

No really! Explain it to me. What I know is this: The Traveler arrived on mars in the not so distant future. Giving us several hundred years of technological advancement. We could terraform planets. Think about it. As of right now they say doing something like that would take thousands of years. We did it in only a few in this game. So thats a pretty big thing. So one would assume our weapons and whatnot developed with that kind of wonder tech. And the fact that the city apparently cannot produce some kind of ammunition for its turrets tells me we did advance our weapons and that we have lost some of the know how to make them if not use them. How we lost: From what I know is that this thing that no one knows anything about called the Darkness arrived and in what sounds like one fell swoop took out all that we had built. How? Is it some strange enigmatic being? Or did it use the Fallen, Vex, Cabal, and Hive to do its dirty work. If its the first point...Then wtf? How does no one know what it is or even remember or have any knowledge of it? Something like that would probably of made the history books. Now if its the second point....Well this makes less sense. If the Darkness used the other races to bring Humanity to its knees....How? Seriously look at our enemies. The Fallen. They have houses that bicker among themselves. But first...Their weapons. They have slow charging pulse rifles that you can dodge by moving at a walk. A rifle that while it shoots tracking rounds, you can dodge these by strafing right or left, and a 6 legged mecha tank that is the next best thing to worthless. Look at the tank. Blowing off the armor of the legs causes it to shut down and show you its weakspot. Its main turret telegraphs when and where it is going to shoot, and the rest of its weapons are inaccurate as anything else. Plus it moves slow. Current tanks move faster, turn faster, and cannot be damaged by small arms fire. Unlike this tank of the Fallen. Im pretty sure an M1A1 could beat anything the fallen have by itself. The Cabal Roman style shields, Rocket launching shoulder pads, and a hover tank. These guys are a little better in my opinion than the Fallen are. They poise a little bit more of a threat. But lets look at them now. Big assed shields. These guys a slow and when they cover behind their shields they cannot aim worth anything. Plus they are stupidly vulnerable to any kind of flanking. So facing 3 or more people is a hopeless situation for a group of these guys. The captains and the centurions are the only part of this race that I can see being worth anything. They have shields can use rockets to float along and have either a chain gun a rocket launcher or...Rocket pads. But they like everything else couldn't shoot the broadside of a barn. Their big assed hover tank. Is...Too big to be worth anything. It could not fight its way through most cities let alone any kind of valley. Only useful for big open plains. Suffers same problem of being damaged by small arms and telegraphing where its going to shoot. The Vex. Teleporting robots. Almost all of the Vex suffer from the same thing. A glowing weakness on its body. The only one that does not are their big rocket totting shield wearing brothers. Who get mad and go into a rage instead of doing the right thing which would be lobbying rockets from afar. They almost all can teleport and some can become immune to damage, but what could is being immune to damage for 3 seconds in an open field. Nadda. Their big tank like things the Hydra have arms that fire a non stop volley of what I am assuming is plasma. They also have a rotating body shield that cannot be taken down and makes that portion of their body immune to all damage. Buuuuuut...They like everything else suck at aiming their twim turrets. And the body shield is next to worthless as it only cover part of them. Get enough of a height difference and you can shoot down past it with no fear of it stopping you. Horrible weakness. The Hive These guys..Just make no sense. They are clearly the most evil of all our enemies. But how did they ever gain space flight? Look at their society. To me...They all seem brainless except for the wizards. I just do not understand these beings. They must of been supplied by some 3rd party. The Darkness? Perhaps. Or maybe they are the Darkness embodied. But looking back..I feel like present day (As in 2014) Humans could put up a fight against the majority of these races. Their heavy vehicles are the next best thing to giant targets and their general aim and fighting style makes them seem as though they have no idea of what they are doing. So this takes me back to the start. How did we lose? The Humans who had several hundred years of tech advancement should have crushed any one or two or hell three of these races. The weapons we should have had should of torn a hole through anything they could have tossed against our walls. Or did these weapons not come about till after the fall? But if so...Why can we no longer make the ammo for some of our turrets. How did we become more advanced after losing the war when it comes to building new weapons. From the knowledge the npcs seem to have of the enemy, we had enough left to study them. So if so why can we not just build some type of weapon platform and go around and bring them to their knees? Or hell build a space ship and leave earth behind. Its clear none of them go hunting into the reef and kill any they find there. So just learn to fly a damn ship and get out of dodge. Someone enlighten me.

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  • Necrobump

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  • Humanity was too busy creating Exo Boobs and sticking together in 3 person fireteams. Then we got jumped from behind by that smokey black mist from Lost and it reset all of our Exotic and Legendary gear and weapons into Rares and Uncommons. Yes, there was a time when Guardians were kitted out in full Exotic gear (that's why they called it the 'golden' age) but alas that time came to an end and we became just another uncommon race. [u]On a more serious note: [/u]What makes you think that the Darkness isn't just like the Traveller? - granting longer life, respawning fallen warriors of all races, granting incredible advances in technology (for all we know the Fallen used to use sticks and rocks before the Darkness came to them). We're all stuck in a kind of endless war (live, die, repeat anyone?) where we get revived and get better gear but so do our enemies. I've lost track of how many times I've killed Aksor, Sepiks Prime, Phogoth and friends at varying levels of hardness. That galaxy wide apocalypse that apparently wiped our golden age off the face of the Universe's finely chiselled butt cheeks? What if that's exactly what happened to all the other races out there and somebody pointed the finger at humanity and the Traveller as the culprits just as we pointed the finger at the Darkness and it's minions? What if what we call the Darkness, they (our enemies) might call the Traveller and in turn think of our Traveller as the Darkness? The Traveller and the Darkness may be two halves of the same whole forever entwined in a perpetual struggle which neither can win for it would throw the very fibres of space and time out of whack. And Humanity has gotten caught up in this struggle whether we wanted to or not. So true of our so called enemies, The Fallen, those undead Hivers, big boned Cabal and of course our time travelling cousins The Vex. The course of history and fate for all of these races has been purposefully deviated by the Traveller and the Darkness. No one ever had a choice. Except that now Humanity seems to be questioning the Traveller (Dead Orbit), seeking to follow our own path once again (New Monarchy) and desiring an end to the war by crushing our enemies once and for all (Future War Cult). Our so called enemies might also be raising similar questions. And then there was, is, and probably always existed The Exo Stranger. The one seeking not balance but a reordering of events. She is neither for nor against the Traveller or the Darkness. She is the eternal arbiter (as well as Cayde-6's new pinup girl). Why is it she takes an interest in you Guardian? Sure you're good looking and she may even swing that way, you never know. She gave you a cool-ass gun (the super soaker of the year 5056) so maybe you got a shot at seeing what's under that cape. But she may not be seeking you out for the reasons you may think (and get those other reasons out of your head! Yes, [i]those[/i] reasons). You, Guardian, have the power to change events. You are the unexpected addition to the equation capable of tipping the balance one way or another. You are the unpredictable element and she will keep a very close eye on you. She knows of events that were, that are and that will come to pass. But she does not know where you fit in for you are the enigma that she seeks to reorder in order to maintain the status quo. Neither friend nor foe to you she is just as much an enigma as you are to her and you should keep as close an eye on her as she is keeping on you. Too much of a mind-blam-? Posts your comments below.

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    • Rasputin shut down our defenses. He was "made to win," but also learn and survive. So he either joined the Darkness, or just allowed the Darkness to win so he could survive. There's usually at least one really good lore thread about it floating around lately.

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      • I could tell you i could tell you i cou i cou could tellllll yoooooou. But i wont. MWUAHAHAHA HA ! -The Speaker.

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      • Edited by mitchie1810: 10/26/2014 2:17:55 AM
        I could tell you about the great war, but i rather not. But for $50 i will tell you all.

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      • There was a small group of guardians who felt we were killing our enemies too quickly and felt sympathy for them, so they prayed to the Traveller for a solution. That solution... [spoiler]A nerf to all the weapons and armor, now we're barely holding on anymore[/spoiler]

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      • It dosent say that the darkness used the vex, fallen, hive, or cabal to beat us. Remember dingle bot said we gave the hive the moon. I believe the darkness is it's own force the other races were pushed to earth trying to outrun it and just happened to bump into us

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      • By trusting bungie

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      • Rasputin let the darkness into the city to weaken i as killing people who had light weakened the darkness (he obviously left some left as he was sworn to protect them) but he is also the only one who faced the darkness and survived

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      • You smoke entirely too much weed

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      • I was playing through the story missions with my hunter character yesterday, and the Ghost mentioned that it was during the collapse that the Vex turned Mercury into a machine and only the intervention of the Traveller stopped them from converting the other worlds. This means the Vex were active during the collapse, and destroyed at least one human colony world (it has been mentioned that during the Golden Age the Traveller had turned Mercury into a garden paradise). We don't know if the Vex worked with the Darkness (the potential account of the collapse by what is possibly Rasputin would suggest no one worked with the Darkness), if they were working against the Darkness (the Exo Stranger describe the Vex as being so evil that they would fight against other evil), if they were independent of the conflict with the Darkness and were using the Collapse as a distraction to seize worlds, or if the Vex are the Darkness. The Vex structures on Venus predate humanity by billions of years. During the Collapse they were taking entire worlds away and managed to convert one into a machine in a short amount of time. The Vex are potentially inside of every world of the solar system. And the only thing that stopped them in the Collapse was the power of the Traveller. I would say the full might of the Vex was used during the Collapse, but is dormant before it and ever since. We're seeing a resurgence in the game, but the Guardians and Ghosts (the last embers of the Traveller's power) are managing to keep them in check.

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        • Because of him.

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          • " We don't know who struck first, us or them. But we do know it was us that scorched the sky. " - Morpheus

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          • [quote]No really! Explain it to me. What I know is this: The Traveler arrived on mars in the not so distant future. Giving us several hundred years of technological advancement. We could terraform planets. Think about it. As of right now they say doing something like that would take thousands of years. We did it in only a few in this game. So thats a pretty big thing. So one would assume our weapons and whatnot developed with that kind of wonder tech. And the fact that the city apparently cannot produce some kind of ammunition for its turrets tells me we did advance our weapons and that we have lost some of the know how to make them if not use them. How we lost: From what I know is that this thing that no one knows anything about called the Darkness arrived and in what sounds like one fell swoop took out all that we had built. How? Is it some strange enigmatic being? Or did it use the Fallen, Vex, Cabal, and Hive to do its dirty work. If its the first point...Then wtf? How does no one know what it is or even remember or have any knowledge of it? Something like that would probably of made the history books. Now if its the second point....Well this makes less sense. If the Darkness used the other races to bring Humanity to its knees....How? Seriously look at our enemies. The Fallen. They have houses that bicker among themselves. But first...Their weapons. They have slow charging pulse rifles that you can dodge by moving at a walk. A rifle that while it shoots tracking rounds, you can dodge these by strafing right or left, and a 6 legged mecha tank that is the next best thing to worthless. Look at the tank. Blowing off the armor of the legs causes it to shut down and show you its weakspot. Its main turret telegraphs when and where it is going to shoot, and the rest of its weapons are inaccurate as anything else. Plus it moves slow. Current tanks move faster, turn faster, and cannot be damaged by small arms fire. Unlike this tank of the Fallen. Im pretty sure an M1A1 could beat anything the fallen have by itself. The Cabal Roman style shields, Rocket launching shoulder pads, and a hover tank. These guys are a little better in my opinion than the Fallen are. They poise a little bit more of a threat. But lets look at them now. Big assed shields. These guys a slow and when they cover behind their shields they cannot aim worth anything. Plus they are stupidly vulnerable to any kind of flanking. So facing 3 or more people is a hopeless situation for a group of these guys. The captains and the centurions are the only part of this race that I can see being worth anything. They have shields can use rockets to float along and have either a chain gun a rocket launcher or...Rocket pads. But they like everything else couldn't shoot the broadside of a barn. Their big assed hover tank. Is...Too big to be worth anything. It could not fight its way through most cities let alone any kind of valley. Only useful for big open plains. Suffers same problem of being damaged by small arms and telegraphing where its going to shoot. The Vex. Teleporting robots. Almost all of the Vex suffer from the same thing. A glowing weakness on its body. The only one that does not are their big rocket totting shield wearing brothers. Who get mad and go into a rage instead of doing the right thing which would be lobbying rockets from afar. They almost all can teleport and some can become immune to damage, but what could is being immune to damage for 3 seconds in an open field. Nadda. Their big tank like things the Hydra have arms that fire a non stop volley of what I am assuming is plasma. They also have a rotating body shield that cannot be taken down and makes that portion of their body immune to all damage. Buuuuuut...They like everything else suck at aiming their twim turrets. And the body shield is next to worthless as it only cover part of them. Get enough of a height difference and you can shoot down past it with no fear of it stopping you. Horrible weakness. The Hive These guys..Just make no sense. They are clearly the most evil of all our enemies. But how did they ever gain space flight? Look at their society. To me...They all seem brainless except for the wizards. I just do not understand these beings. They must of been supplied by some 3rd party. The Darkness? Perhaps. Or maybe they are the Darkness embodied. But looking back..I feel like present day (As in 2014) Humans could put up a fight against the majority of these races. Their heavy vehicles are the next best thing to giant targets and their general aim and fighting style makes them seem as though they have no idea of what they are doing. So this takes me back to the start. How did we lose? The Humans who had several hundred years of tech advancement should have crushed any one or two or hell three of these races. The weapons we should have had should of torn a hole through anything they could have tossed against our walls. Or did these weapons not come about till after the fall? But if so...Why can we no longer make the ammo for some of our turrets. How did we become more advanced after losing the war when it comes to building new weapons. From the knowledge the npcs seem to have of the enemy, we had enough left to study them. So if so why can we not just build some type of weapon platform and go around and bring them to their knees? Or hell build a space ship and leave earth behind. Its clear none of them go hunting into the reef and kill any they find there. So just learn to fly a damn ship and get out of dodge. Someone enlighten me.[/quote] Okay so..... The sheer idea that you underestimate these enemies, is really insulting. The game design has the enemies dumbed down, it's not dark souls. The enemy NPC's all have tell tale signs and movements that you can easily predict, for playable purposes. Also, you obviously have never accomplished a weekly nightfall or raid on hard. Try fighting this, without the 'buffs' we receive from bungie making gameplay entertaining, without the NPC's consistent gameplay, and without hiding under a rock, bridge, hole or hallway where suddenly the enemy just 'cant even.' You cannot make a logical argument for a game with illogical gameplay. This is designed to make a smaller challenge for casual gamers, and a harder challenge presented to those who seek out the true challenge. Without 'cheating' a weekly nightfall/raid, many characters would have to use HOURS upon HOURS of constantly dying. That is as a super buffed guardian with powers and gear and shields. Not even all the enemy characters have shields or even weapons. You aren't seeing the big picture, these enemies we fight, are small droves of the factions who loot our system. Small out posts, here and there during missions. Outside of a strike or the raid, we don't encounter a real 'base' like scenario. That being said....there is so much grinding involved I am glad that the enemies aren't that difficult when you're geared up, or coordinated.

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          • I could tell you of the great battle......................................................................................................................................

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          • We got defeated from the inside out. The traveler betrayed us.

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          • What you are failing to realize is that the vex have already won. They have imprisoned us in a never ending loop of conflict which, no matter how hard we fight everything resets the moment we finish. How many times have we defeated sepiks prime or phogoth? The VOG is just an amusement for the vex. They enjoy watching us try and try and try only to have all of our work wiped clean on Tuesdays. This is a collective hell for humanity.

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            • We lost the war...when the story writer left? I dunno, man.

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            • I don't think the Fallen took part in the collapse. Here's part of a Grimoire card: [quote]The Fallen "We have butchers at our gates - four-armed and eager for slaughter." The Fallen are ruthless scavengers. Brutal and uncaring, they arrived on their massive Ketches in the wake of the Collapse to loot and pillage our devastated worlds.[/quote] Here it says "in the wake of the Collapse." They weren't a part of the collapse. The Fallen are often depicted as scavengers. I view them as the smaller fish that follow sharks and eat whatever scraps the shark leaves in its wake. The Fallen probably follow the Darkness and loot the ruined worlds that the Darkness destroyed. It's likely that the Fallen were a people that fell victim to the Darkness, and now have been reduced to nomadic scavengers that try to take advantage of the doom of others for their own benefit or survival.

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              • Another problem is that you are seeing it from the game design perspective. That tank clearly showing where to fire? It's done to give the player a counter action to that and create gameplay. And when you are playing a game is different to being in actual battle, it may seem easy to dodge that sniper bullet, but if there are objects blowing up around you, gunfire and other visual/audio noise you may never even see that sniper. One last point is that even with the Hive seeming mindless they still have intelligence to use weapons, ships, and various other technology. Only the thralls are really the mindless ones.

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                • Edited by Equinox Black: 10/24/2014 7:52:19 PM
                  I believe from the in game comments and grimoire cards that the enemy races are like vultures or parasites that follow the darkness around and take advantage of the damage it causes. The darkness while not wholly aligned with these races, tolerates them because they further "it's" purpose, and it provides them w/ power in the same fashion that the traveler gives guardians light. They are their own factions, and often fight against each other which is obvious on the battle field where vex/fallen/cabal/hive are almost constantly fighting each other. From the Grimore as listed by IGN... [quote]Something hit us. Killed our Golden Age. Nearly wiped us out. Only the Traveler saved us, and at a shattering cost. The Speaker tells of a cosmic force that swept over us and caused the Collapse. Legend calls it the Darkness, the Traveler's ancient enemy, which hunted it across space. All we have left are questions. Centuries of debate gave birth to competing arguments on the nature of the Darkness and the Collapse. The Pujari Position describes the Darkness as a force with both physical and moral presence, an actualization of evil. Pujari art depicts the Darkness as a great storm, or as a change in conduct, a corruption that emerged from within and poisoned the Golden Age. Saint-14's Position argues that the Darkness was an invading armada, an alien force of incredible - but tangible - power. Some adherents believe that this armada sprang from species rejected or discarded by the Traveler for their sins. Ulan-Tan's Thesis considers the Darkness a necessary symmetry to the Traveler in a cosmic balance. In this view, the Traveler's goodness led it to sacrifice for others, and it is up to us to return this goodness by healing the Traveler. The Monist Position, or the Deflationary Position, considers the Darkness as a technologically sophisticated force, perhaps a post-Singularity intelligence. Adherents invoke information theory or contend that the universe is a simulation, allowing advanced intelligence to gain weakly acausal powers by bending the rules. The Acataleptic Clause claims that we are intrinsically unable to understand the Darkness. In many respects this belief parallels the Praxic Creed, which suggests that we should stop worrying about the nature of the Darkness and focus on resisting and defeating it. Certain positions - often labeled heretical - imply that the Traveler itself triggered the Collapse, or that it knew the Darkness was coming for it and hoped to use the Solar System as a sacrifice or a proxy army. The Binary Star cult is one notable example. [/quote]

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                • It's unclear because the whole attack was a massive -blam!- slap from out of nowhere. Nobody saw it coming, and it happened so fast we couldn't really respond. Imagine whole planets going dark in hours, and the general chaos and confusion, plus Rasputin possibly shutting a ton of systems down to create a defense against the attacker. The Traveler then fights it's opponent and gets damaged, and the battle was so great that witnessing it created an entirely new race of humans. That's the kind of apocalyptic attack that happened.

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                • I don't even have time to explain why I don't have time to explain...

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                • I could tell you the story... But i Dont have the time to explain why i Dont have time to explain

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                • Edited by pollodiablo82: 10/25/2014 2:04:09 PM
                  But seriously, the original story has been cut up, slaughtered, tortured mutilated and sexually abused before the game was released. Thats why the original writer walked away from it before release... So Theres no real answer to your question, there are only fragments and bits and pièces left

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                • [quote]No really! Explain it to me. What I know is this: The Traveler arrived on mars in the not so distant future. Giving us several hundred years of technological advancement. We could terraform planets. Think about it. As of right now they say doing something like that would take thousands of years. We did it in only a few in this game. So thats a pretty big thing. So one would assume our weapons and whatnot developed with that kind of wonder tech. And the fact that the city apparently cannot produce some kind of ammunition for its turrets tells me we did advance our weapons and that we have lost some of the know how to make them if not use them. How we lost: From what I know is that this thing that no one knows anything about called the Darkness arrived and in what sounds like one fell swoop took out all that we had built. How? Is it some strange enigmatic being? Or did it use the Fallen, Vex, Cabal, and Hive to do its dirty work. If its the first point...Then wtf? How does no one know what it is or even remember or have any knowledge of it? Something like that would probably of made the history books. Now if its the second point....Well this makes less sense. If the Darkness used the other races to bring Humanity to its knees....How? Seriously look at our enemies. The Fallen. They have houses that bicker among themselves. But first...Their weapons. They have slow charging pulse rifles that you can dodge by moving at a walk. A rifle that while it shoots tracking rounds, you can dodge these by strafing right or left, and a 6 legged mecha tank that is the next best thing to worthless. Look at the tank. Blowing off the armor of the legs causes it to shut down and show you its weakspot. Its main turret telegraphs when and where it is going to shoot, and the rest of its weapons are inaccurate as anything else. Plus it moves slow. Current tanks move faster, turn faster, and cannot be damaged by small arms fire. Unlike this tank of the Fallen. Im pretty sure an M1A1 could beat anything the fallen have by itself. The Cabal Roman style shields, Rocket launching shoulder pads, and a hover tank. These guys are a little better in my opinion than the Fallen are. They poise a little bit more of a threat. But lets look at them now. Big assed shields. These guys a slow and when they cover behind their shields they cannot aim worth anything. Plus they are stupidly vulnerable to any kind of flanking. So facing 3 or more people is a hopeless situation for a group of these guys. The captains and the centurions are the only part of this race that I can see being worth anything. They have shields can use rockets to float along and have either a chain gun a rocket launcher or...Rocket pads. But they like everything else couldn't shoot the broadside of a barn. Their big assed hover tank. Is...Too big to be worth anything. It could not fight its way through most cities let alone any kind of valley. Only useful for big open plains. Suffers same problem of being damaged by small arms and telegraphing where its going to shoot. The Vex. Teleporting robots. Almost all of the Vex suffer from the same thing. A glowing weakness on its body. The only one that does not are their big rocket totting shield wearing brothers. Who get mad and go into a rage instead of doing the right thing which would be lobbying rockets from afar. They almost all can teleport and some can become immune to damage, but what could is being immune to damage for 3 seconds in an open field. Nadda. Their big tank like things the Hydra have arms that fire a non stop volley of what I am assuming is plasma. They also have a rotating body shield that cannot be taken down and makes that portion of their body immune to all damage. Buuuuuut...They like everything else suck at aiming their twim turrets. And the body shield is next to worthless as it only cover part of them. Get enough of a height difference and you can shoot down past it with no fear of it stopping you. Horrible weakness. The Hive These guys..Just make no sense. They are clearly the most evil of all our enemies. But how did they ever gain space flight? Look at their society. To me...They all seem brainless except for the wizards. I just do not understand these beings. They must of been supplied by some 3rd party. The Darkness? Perhaps. Or maybe they are the Darkness embodied. But looking back..I feel like present day (As in 2014) Humans could put up a fight against the majority of these races. Their heavy vehicles are the next best thing to giant targets and their general aim and fighting style makes them seem as though they have no idea of what they are doing. So this takes me back to the start. How did we lose? The Humans who had several hundred years of tech advancement should have crushed any one or two or hell three of these races. The weapons we should have had should of torn a hole through anything they could have tossed against our walls. Or did these weapons not come about till after the fall? But if so...Why can we no longer make the ammo for some of our turrets. How did we become more advanced after losing the war when it comes to building new weapons. From the knowledge the npcs seem to have of the enemy, we had enough left to study them. So if so why can we not just build some type of weapon platform and go around and bring them to their knees? Or hell build a space ship and leave earth behind. Its clear none of them go hunting into the reef and kill any they find there. So just learn to fly a damn ship and get out of dodge. Someone enlighten me.[/quote] "I could tell you........"

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