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#feedback

Edited by QuirkyViper: 10/18/2014 5:29:22 PM
23

Super long Feedback post

Feedback after a month of solid play across two classes: I apologise in advance for the bumping I will do to keep this in view. Dear Bungie, in this exceedingly long post I will be providing you with my feedback of all facets of Destiny as I have experienced them across this past month. I have participated in all content save for the queen’s bounty due to a holiday at the time, which was amazing in case you care to know. I truly regret the amount of bumps I may need to add in order to keep this feedback in a place where you can see it, alas that is the way that your forums work and thus beyond my control. I will treat PvE and PvP separately as I believe you ought to treat them as well. This post is basically all constructive criticism, enough has been made of what could have, should have and would have been, my focus is on what can be with the Destiny we have now. There is no economy: let’s just cut the MMO or not debate out before it starts, destiny features no relevant things to buy with its currency analogue and that is all we need to discuss here. We live in a capitalist society where we are used to the golden rule of supply, demand and marketing shenanigans that manipulate demand to meet supply. In destiny there is nothing which mandates the gathering of glimmer, nothing to strive towards or use money on. Stuffed into a corner like an afterthought is some lady selling the same shaders ever week (which all look 50 shades of ugly!) What I am trying to say is that there is simply no point to glimmer. I would understand needing to pay the weapon smith to upgrade my gun for me, but as is, I just need to put some glimmer into my gun to make it better. How does literally putting money into my weapon improve it? This makes no sense, why even have a weapon smith then? I understand the fear of gold farmers and a black market for gear but to be perfectly honest, those are signs of an in game economy that people are invested enough in to WANT to spend real money on. Nothing in Destiny is worth any real money. Ships are loading screens which all look the same, sparrows only differ by colour, the woman with the shaders and emblems seems to never change her offers. Why is glimmer even in this game other than as a resource to upgrade weaponry and gear? I for one would imagine that in a crippled society barely clinging on to life in its last bastion, resources would be everything. Spirit bloom, relic iron, spin metal, these are things that gear descriptions say to be using so why are these not the focal point? I have never, ever heard in any way from anything or anyone in Destiny just what role glimmer is supposed to play in this story. And if I did, it was so meaningless and out of context that I have already forgotten. The story: I am sorry to beat a dead horse with another dead horse here guys. Just putting it out there that you might want to switch to a chapter format similar to Spartan ops so that you can work on the story and gradually release chapters as they become available (forget how tedious Spartan ops ended up being, at least there was environmental variety and an actual story). I can only imagine Joe Staten left because he didn’t want THIS staining his record as a writer but come on…400 people could not do any better? Some of the stuff in the grimoire is actually fairly interesting but I want to know about it in the game. Have master Rahool excitably tell me about the history of the Ishtar collective on Venus because he is an archaeologist, have the speaker tell me that the books behind him have information on enemies I might find useful and surprise! (it opens an in game grimoire). Make strikes into little mini stories. What is happening here, why is it important, who is involved, what are the stakes? Certainly at this point we seem like the bad guys, invading the domain of these “bosses” annihilating their people for no good reason and then butchering the ‘boss’ without any real ‘reward’ to show for it. I suggest making some simple cutscenes and splicing theses into different parts of the strike where they provide meaningful story and context to our actions. Example: Sepiks prime is upping its ether production so that the fallen can launch a major strike against the city. When we arrive in the refinery a cutscene plays showing the devil baron and his forces preparing. They notice us and the Baron leaves to warn Sepiks prime of the incursion –end cutscene- Our firefight with the fallen rouses the hive from their tunnels near the refinery and they attack! This cutscene is in engine and very brief, dinklebot is still bored because as we all know, he’s an immortal machine god that can’t be harmed in any way. When it is time for the third and final wave, The Devil Baron returns with his guard, enraged at the slaughter of his troops he jumps down dramatically and engages us in battle (this is a cutscene) As he falls, a few panicked fallen flee and these are the ones positioned on the stairs before we get to the devil walker (in engine). Guess why the Devil walker gets dropped? A badly wounded survivor makes it back to Sepiks prime, who isn’t ready and has now lost a significant portion of its forces. The guardians must be stalled so he orders a devil walker to be dropped. The walker does not move from its position because the Fallen absolutely do not want guardians sneaking past. And suddenly it makes sense why the fallen are kneeling before sepiks prime when we arrive in his chamber. Boom, context and meaning to the fight! People might get bored with the cutscenes so make them skipable. Also provide the story of the strike as a grimoire card for those that cleared it. And yes, I am telling to include the grimoire in the game because it’s all the story we have right now and it only works as auxiliary material when there’s main material to augment, which there is not at this time. Also please refrain from spending massive chunks of funding on famous voice actors, this could have been spent on the actual game so just STAHP! It’s especially painful for fans of say, Peter Dinklage, when he is reduced to something like Dinklebot…and still probably cost millions for the few lines he even has.

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  • Edited by PhoneticLand: 5/27/2015 7:24:55 AM
    I'm sorry I didn't read all of it but I'm going to. Here's why Bungie won't make an economy: When Bungie first started Destiny the idea that marketing to the lowest common denominator was highly unseen. While Destiny was pre alpha, the COD series launched into its prime. The sales were enormous. But why? Because they marketed to the younger audience. They simplified and dumbed things down so that even a kid could play. How do these things relate? Simple. An experienced and dedicated adult would out class a kid in the economy. Every. Single. Time. Bungie/Activision don't want that for their game. They want to provide the most fulfilling experience to the majority. Not the minority. And unfortunately the majority are a bunch of kids between 10-16 who just want to feel good about killing shit. If the consumer no longer feels good because they feel outclassed by someone else taking advantage of the economy, they don't want to play. If a player doesn't wanna play, they don't buy the DLC. This is exactly what Bungie/Activision do not want, because they obviously want to keep the sales going. Should there be economy? Yes. Will it happen? Nope.

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  • All the problems with this game are due to development issues and cut content. The reason getting to 20 is so easy and the majority of players never rank up to 30 with light is because[b] it always was intentional.[/b] Bungie knows this game isn't complete. It's a cut apart mess that is meant to save them cash while waiting for Destiny 2. The best of the worst pretty much. Why else would most @ Bungie be focusing on Destiny 2 already in October 2014? The team handling updates and patches is small and inexperienced. The veterans have left or are on an assignment concerning Destiny 2. This is how pre ordering is killing AAA games.

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  • Just saying that putting glimmer into your gun to make it better does make a lot of sense. Since glimmer is programmable matter putting it in your gun makes that extra feature the upgrade tree provides you with.

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  • TL:DR

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  • Gear Diversity: I actually take back the things I’ve said about this during the alpha, beta and first two weeks of Destiny. There is actually a respectable variety of gear in Destiny at the moment. Now the problems are that A) you may never get to see it due to RNG B) everything becomes obsolete when you are FORCED to wear a very narrow selection of gear to raise a light level, culminating in a single set for those wanting to reach level 30 (the raid gear). This is a funnel, it is very bad, which Lord of the Rings online learned the hard way, just tell me if any of this sounds familiar: Also the legendary gear that the vanguard sells looks atrocious and tacky. My warlock had to sacrifice his majestic, regal blue-rarity trench coat for some tattered, gaudy piece of shit that makes me look like a magical hobo, just to level up. I can at least see the point of having jagged rectangular shoulders when I need to hit enemies with a shoulder charge, but unless Atheon is in desperate need of shaving his armpits, I think the STUPID razor blade on top of my hideous helmet really just needs to go and get lost forever in the timestream. Also where in the hell are the playstation exclusive gear sets and why are they only blue rarity when they look like what Legendary gear ought to be. In fact, what is up with the rarity levels in general? Blue and sometimes even green gear looks like they should be rare and legendary. Most legendary gear looks like it should be in the quickly discarded green level dustbin. Xbox players can rest at ease knowing they aren’t missing anything because by the time someone actually manages to get a full set of the exclusives it will be both obsolete and out on xbox. (which I have no problems with since I think ‘timed’ exclusives are scams). Also AESTHETIC CUSTOMIZATION! This entails being able to choose which parts of my apparel have what colour or pattern to them and being able to use the armour I have possessed in the past as a skin for the armour which I am presently wearing. Look at GW2 if you want to see how this is done, just don’t pull any crap like the transmutation charges. Fighting my kneejerk reaction to say -blam!- crucible, I’ll just add that if you intend to keep the light system, no one will ever mistake the gear you are wearing with that which you are showing for the following reasons: A) You can only get past level 20 with light gear B) The enemy is trying to kill you, not give you fashion advice C) Everything is supposedly ‘normalised’ so the gear you are wearing should not matter in PvP PvP vs. PvE Allow me to give you a brief history lesson: Here we go, the flamewar cometh. Since the inception of the MMO genre the developers of its most popular titles have struggled with what I like to call the “Chosen one” paradox. Basically the story labels you, the player as THE chosen one, but does this for everyone in the game. In PvE it is relatively easy to make this work because computer controlled enemies don’t get to complain about fairness. This is why developers can include ridiculous, over the top weapons and abilities that would be hopelessly unbalanced in a competitive scenario, because FUN is all that matters. In PvE everyone can be special once they work enough to reach the ‘end game content’ otherwise known as having their cake and eating it. Given the farcical nature of our age rating system’s regulatory methods and the priority of games publishers to sell as many copies a possible, many children at least 6 years too young to play a title, play it. These individuals are what is known as ‘special snowflakes’ and the concept of not being THE chosen one is foreign to them. If they die in what is called PvP, they will scream bloody murder and demand justice against the cretin whom violated their power fantasy. Note that though this is extremely prevalent amongst this age group, it is not exclusive to them, some adults truly are not worthy of the name. The problem then is balance in PvP, the more mechanics and moving parts there are, the more variables. This is why counter strike has always been heralded as the epitome of skill based, hardcore shooting. It is so barebones and focused on core mechanics that these have been polished to near perfection. Games like Call of Duty and Battlefield excel in the variety they offer players, which is what makes them so popular However, when you have dozens of guns, vehicles, attachments and environmental effects these all complicate things greatly. Especially since the human brain will always gravitate towards that which is most effective in a competitive scenario. If one gun reigns supreme, guess which gun people will use? The nerf hammer is not something that should be wielded lightly and is more likely to crush like a weapon than repair as a tool. Especially when wielded agains PvE where feeling OP after working for it IS THE POINT. This is the source of the outrage on the forums from PvE players, fundamentally it is the PvP where everything needs to be barebones and homogenized to provide a level playing field which caters to skill. PvE is the playground that caters to dedication and power fantasies. From a marketing standpoint having seamless transition between the two is amazing but from a practical standpoint it is a nightmare. Especially since Destiny is essentially RNG: the game right now and there is no way to guarantee that everyone has access to the current ‘god gun’ as the moniker goes. MMO players break things: Being the cheeky, curious little fiends they are, MMO players can be counted upon to do things with and to your game that you could never have dreamed of. The worst possible response is to take away their toys. They really are quite like children in that positive reinforcement > Negative reinforcement. Tell an MMO player “if you don’t do this you will get better results” will see them do what you want. Telling them “we don’t want you to do this and will kill you if you try” well…you can see what that results in on the forums, Ye olde nerd rage (justified in my opinion) Please for the love of dear, sweet tap dancing RNGeesus stop trying to fight us, we are legion and outnumber you at least 10,000 : 1. There will always be loot caves, there will always be cheesy strategies for bosses but only ‘fixing’ creative approaches into oblivion will only result in there not always being players. A marketing blitz only gets you so far and only lasts so long. Keep this up and the amount of new players won’t balance out the amount of people moving on to newer and better things. Incentivise players to play the way you want them too instead of punishing them for playing in ways that frighten you. This is the only way, ask any MMO developer still in business (even your elder Steph brother Blizzard.) Speaking of Blizzard, ask for their roadmap on the loot system which they implemented in Diablo III. It will save us all so very much time, effort and frustration. Since this post is already obscenely long, I’ll just stop now, but please take the time to read it, as it contains the collective opinions and views of dozens of threads I have read, not just my own views.

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    • Bump

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    • I still have most of your post to read through, but as far as glimmer goes, I believe it's not just money. It's a 3D synthesis thing too. People literally make things out of glimmer. Reply so I can look at the rest later?

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    • Bump bump bump bump bump bump bump

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    • Edited by Hecate: 5/11/2015 11:27:45 PM
      You know, that's actually a very good idea raised here. Instead of letting players depend on whatever RNGesus has chosen to gift them with when they enter the Crucible, make them all choose from a limited set of gear (armor and weapons) for a Crucible match. If everyone is selecting from the exact same set of weapons and armor for Crucible matches, that would end all the "nerf/buff" this or that posts. You'd want to change what gear is in the set, either randomly or on a weekly basis, but then you'd have a truly level playing field! Except for class abilities, of course. But you could have matches where those are disabled. Then it would finally be a test of skill, not who has the best weapons.

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    • We have woken the hive...

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    • Good start, but could you please go into a little more detail?

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    • Also marty was the music lead. Joe Staten was the lead writer who left. Just to correct the part where you talk about story.

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      • bump

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      • My name is aboniks, and I approve this message.

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        • Bump

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        • You went so hard...

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        • [quote]Feedback after a month of solid play across two classes: I apologise in advance for the bumping I will do to keep this in view. Dear Bungie, in this exceedingly long post I will be providing you with my feedback of all facets of Destiny as I have experienced them across this past month. I have participated in all content save for the queen’s bounty due to a holiday at the time, which was amazing in case you care to know. I truly regret the amount of bumps I may need to add in order to keep this feedback in a place where you can see it, alas that is the way that your forums work and thus beyond my control. I will treat PvE and PvP separately as I believe you ought to treat them as well. This post is basically all constructive criticism, enough has been made of what could have, should have and would have been, my focus is on what can be with the Destiny we have now. There is no economy: let’s just cut the MMO or not debate out before it starts, destiny features no relevant things to buy with its currency analogue and that is all we need to discuss here. We live in a capitalist society where we are used to the golden rule of supply, demand and marketing shenanigans that manipulate demand to meet supply. In destiny there is nothing which mandates the gathering of glimmer, nothing to strive towards or use money on. Stuffed into a corner like an afterthought is some lady selling the same shaders ever week (which all look 50 shades of ugly!) What I am trying to say is that there is simply no point to glimmer. I would understand needing to pay the weapon smith to upgrade my gun for me, but as is, I just need to put some glimmer into my gun to make it better. How does literally putting money into my weapon improve it? This makes no sense, why even have a weapon smith then? I understand the fear of gold farmers and a black market for gear but to be perfectly honest, those are signs of an in game economy that people are invested enough in to WANT to spend real money on. Nothing in Destiny is worth any real money. Ships are loading screens which all look the same, sparrows only differ by colour, the woman with the shaders and emblems seems to never change her offers. Why is glimmer even in this game other than as a resource to upgrade weaponry and gear? I for one would imagine that in a crippled society barely clinging on to life in its last bastion, resources would be everything. Spirit bloom, relic iron, spin metal, these are things that gear descriptions say to be using so why are these not the focal point? I have never, ever heard in any way from anything or anyone in Destiny just what role glimmer is supposed to play in this story. And if I did, it was so meaningless and out of context that I have already forgotten. The story: I am sorry to beat a dead horse with another dead horse here guys. Just putting it out there that you might want to switch to a chapter format similar to Spartan ops so that you can work on the story and gradually release chapters as they become available (forget how tedious Spartan ops ended up being, at least there was environmental variety and an actual story). I can only imagine Joe Staten left because he didn’t want THIS staining his record as a writer but come on…400 people could not do any better? Some of the stuff in the grimoire is actually fairly interesting but I want to know about it in the game. Have master Rahool excitably tell me about the history of the Ishtar collective on Venus because he is an archaeologist, have the speaker tell me that the books behind him have information on enemies I might find useful and surprise! (it opens an in game grimoire). Make strikes into little mini stories. What is happening here, why is it important, who is involved, what are the stakes? Certainly at this point we seem like the bad guys, invading the domain of these “bosses” annihilating their people for no good reason and then butchering the ‘boss’ without any real ‘reward’ to show for it. I suggest making some simple cutscenes and splicing theses into different parts of the strike where they provide meaningful story and context to our actions. Example: Sepiks prime is upping its ether production so that the fallen can launch a major strike against the city. When we arrive in the refinery a cutscene plays showing the devil baron and his forces preparing. They notice us and the Baron leaves to warn Sepiks prime of the incursion –end cutscene- Our firefight with the fallen rouses the hive from their tunnels near the refinery and they attack! This cutscene is in engine and very brief, dinklebot is still bored because as we all know, he’s an immortal machine god that can’t be harmed in any way. When it is time for the third and final wave, The Devil Baron returns with his guard, enraged at the slaughter of his troops he jumps down dramatically and engages us in battle (this is a cutscene) As he falls, a few panicked fallen flee and these are the ones positioned on the stairs before we get to the devil walker (in engine). Guess why the Devil walker gets dropped? A badly wounded survivor makes it back to Sepiks prime, who isn’t ready and has now lost a significant portion of its forces. The guardians must be stalled so he orders a devil walker to be dropped. The walker does not move from its position because the Fallen absolutely do not want guardians sneaking past. And suddenly it makes sense why the fallen are kneeling before sepiks prime when we arrive in his chamber. Boom, context and meaning to the fight! People might get bored with the cutscenes so make them skipable. Also provide the story of the strike as a grimoire card for those that cleared it. And yes, I am telling to include the grimoire in the game because it’s all the story we have right now and it only works as auxiliary material when there’s main material to augment, which there is not at this time. Also please refrain from spending massive chunks of funding on famous voice actors, this could have been spent on the actual game so just STAHP! It’s especially painful for fans of say, Peter Dinklage, when he is reduced to something like Dinklebot…and still probably cost millions for the few lines he even has.[/quote]dxxxxxxx[spoiler][spoiler][spoiler][spoiler][spoiler][spoiler][spoiler][spoiler][spoiler][spoiler][spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler]

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        • Bump Some very valid points here

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          • Tl,dr: destiny has no economy, glimmer is pointless. There are plenty of ways to get the grimoire in the game. Strikes need to be small stories/adventures unto themselves

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