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Edited by Kiliox:
10/13/2014 4:38:12 PM
103
Why VOG is blown out of proportion and deserves a Matchmaking system.
So, I managed to squeeze my way into a VOG run. And, what I thought would be a highly intricate hourslong raid was actually quite simple. Which, is why I've become determined to advocate a matchmaking system and vehemently defend my views.
First of all, the raid is what I've been looking for in Destiny. What makes me sad, is that there will likely only be one with each expansion. This longform, intricate gameplay is a godsend to someone who's been grinding on Tiger strikes. Beaten senslessly with "defend this, kill that," just learning that I had another role than mindless dps was exhilirating. Not to mention running around a large map with the promise of (good) loot.
Now, to my real point. Why the player necessitated requirements are much too high and serve to block people from ever experiencing the raid; thus, plateuing to endless rep grinds for that 3 light to get you to 27 so people will even consider you (even though the raid is level 26!). Then, you have the "experience" requirement. Now, the raid is really simple. Stop kidding yourselves into thinking that it is even near difficult. Sure, knowing where adds come from is important, but, wiping is what raiding is all about! Learn from your mistakes, try again. Develop your strategy. Did no one play Halo on legendary? That was wipe after wipe with tough enemies. Your friend didn't rage quit and barge out your house when you accidentally drove the warthog off the edge near the end of The Maw!! You deal with it, find a solution, switch drivers and try again.
So, a matchmaking system would
#1 Help people learn the raid
#2 Mildly gear them and help them upgrade what legendaries they have
#3 Bridge the player-created gap between Hardcore and Casual players.
My only suggestion, is that, when matched into a raid, and say, you make it half way and people need to leave, you can use a checkpoint and match with others at that checkpoint at a later date.
But, hey, that's just me.
**EDIT**
Having discussed this with you guys, it seems a pre-raid lobby with a list of potential candidates seems like the better option compared to the way matchmaking is right now. Being able to filter players by level, number of vog completes, weapon dmg, item rarity and mic would be an added bonus. A kick feature would be nice; but, would need limitations, as it could very likely be abused.
The problem I'm having now, is that most players are saying the forum is already an easy way to get a group, so why have matchmaking? And I retort with: if it is so easy, why can't we make a process where you don't have to drop the controller?
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matchmaking or not, VOG is impossible to play without coordination via voice. Good luck.
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I thought mm would be a bad idea. Unfortunately since the raid is sooo damn easy,the lvl 26 anyway, I'd advocate for it.
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1 ReplyMatchmaking aint a problem. Theres a site called destinylfg.net Best way to find a group. IMO lvl 26 raid is just fine, but the lvl 30 hard mode needs some changes.
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1 Replymy issue with matchmaking on the VoG is what happens when you get idiots? people who are not mentally competent? try getting someone who has the IQ of a potato to do the hard mode raid with you, and THEN tell me how easy the raid is. Even knowing where they spawn in hard mode, you still have a good chance of dying. It's not even debatable that the normal mode is easy. You can have idiots on your team via matchmaking for the normal mode and still succeed, but not with hard mode. in hard mode there is a REASON nobody gets picked under lvl 29. when you're two levels lower, you deal considerably less damage while taking significantly more damage. A lvl 28 would only be a burden in hard mode regardless of his exotic weapons, gear, or experience. People incorporate that into normal mode raids as well. You cant blame them. Not to mention if i get matched with someone who doesnt listen or has no experience in the raid, and my time gets wasted, i would have preferred to not attempt doing the raid, and spent my time creating a dependable squad to successfully do it and maximize my time. there are multiple ways of finding players, whether it be on these forums, or websites created strictly for finding members to do pvp or pve with. Having apps or going to their webpage with your phone, you dont need to "drop the controller" in my opinion. but thats just me.
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1 ReplyI am super confused.. Why is anyone against matchmaking? It's not a replacement to hunting down RAID runners, but in addition to it. It's like being against online dating because it will somehow ruin real dating. This is so bizarre..
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I finished VoG for the first time this week. I had no trouble learning the fights or finding a group. I actually did it twice because I was helping some friends. While helping my buddies we had 3 people who have never been in VoG before. Needless to say we cleared it. And just like others have posted, post on the fourms that you are looking for a group, I get invites within a minute. And after 1 week and 2 raid groups I have 10+people to raid with next week. Matchmaking SUCKS!
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5 RepliesYour should unlock matchmaking if you beat the raid. That should be your reward so that when you matchmake you are paired with only experienced individuals. You would be surprised how what seems like child's play is rocket science to someone else. Think of it as the dungeon trials in wow. You can't run high end dungeons unless you complete the trials for your job. Competence license.
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Edited by DubST3Rized: 10/13/2014 7:56:48 PMYou my friend have a lot more faith in random/childish individuals than I ever will. You'd be surprised how many people don't even begin to grasp more than shooting. Hell, some can't even do that and grasp using cover at the same time. I have no problems with no matchmaking. It works fine for me.
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My only problem is what about fire team leader. I want to mother fkers that fks our plans out. With matchmaking, I can't do that
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I agree completely. If matchmaking is not the answer, I would really like to see some sort of change to the invite system. Something that would allow a person to send an invite with specific information about what they are being invited to. So say you click on someones character, you could then have an option to invite to VoG, or nightfall, or whatever, and then what level you are attempting. Right now, all invites are blind and the person accepting has no idea what they are getting into. Just something else that could be an improvement.
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4 RepliesNo matchmaking chat means it's never going to work. Try organising opening the gate witho no communication. Try calling out snipers and oracles and when your stoping the shield on the first boss. Then if you managed to do that try organising who's getting ported and oracle order during the last boss. You want matchmaking then there needs to be voice chat and mics need to be mandatory to join the que.
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2 RepliesYou've never tried it on Hard mode, which is where it actually becomes challenging.
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I think they should add matchmaking. You would still have the option of using a party if you prefer, but adding matchmaking adds more options and makes it better for everyone.
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VOG being easy is not a reason for or against matchmaking. that said the raid is by far the most fun there is to be had in destiny and everyone should be able to participate. getting 6 people in the same place at the same time with a few hours to kill is a difficult task, and that's coming from someone with a decent sized friend's list and a clan of 35ish veteran FPS players. raid matchmaking would allow everyone to enjoy the vault. destinyLFG.net has proven (at least to me) that matchmaking wont "kill the vault" or "cause a poor user experience" the groups I've found using it have been awesome. if you need a group I'd recommend it. I've met some awesome players and had a great time. just don't expect raid experience from the groups you find there, which was always fine by me, I'm as happy to teach them as to run it with a skilled crew.
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Edited by Routypenguin: 10/13/2014 5:20:45 PMLike I've said before I'm not for raid matchmaking in any way shape or form. Unless they do something about afk inactive turds
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1 ReplyAfter reading all of your replies to other posters posting to your thread i have come to realise something. It is people like you that can not take feedback or even listen to another human being without being a prick is the reason why i dont want matchmaking.
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23 RepliesI would refuse to play it with matchmaking....those players could be trolls, they could not have mics, they could be freaking lv 24. On top of that, you need coordination to beat Athion AND the maze. You can't just keep sending different 3 people to be teleported each time since someone needs the shield each time. If the gorgon sees a single person, its a wipe. So no, raid matchmaking would.be god awful because BEFORE the raid, you can't look at the players gear/level/communicate. And to everyone saying you can just back out, THATS THE PROBLEM. Everyone would back out as soon as they saw a LV 24 was trying to do the raid, and so the 24 is stuck by him/herself. Still leaving the problem of people being left behind.
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... doesnt anyone ever read. they are -blam!-ing working on matchmaking for raid. Go do some research before crying on the forums. also.. my titan is 27. 1 exotic armor they can buy from xur) max it out. max out another legendary put some in another, and a blue. wow level 27 ^.^
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Edited by Some Black Guy: 10/13/2014 5:19:08 PM100% for it, because so many people DO NOT know about these forums, or websites, or anything, and have no friends with their console. IF PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO MATCHMAKE, THEY DO NOT HAVE TO PARTAKE IN IT. Option for microphone? Check. Option to search for certain level(s)? Check. Option to search for new or experienced raiders? Check VOG is NOT that hard, when there are so many videos on how to work efficiently. Matchmaking would do NOTHING but help the community. People DO NOT want to spend 10-30 minutes, on forums, websites, trying to "group up" with others, based on random criteria. Matchmaking is nothing but beneficial to everyone. Options would make it easy as well. and the level 24s can find a group that would let him in, because I've played with 25s and they did fairly well for their first time and beat it with us.
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1 ReplyEdited by Wessa: 10/13/2014 6:45:19 AMWon't be playing raid then if people will just go afk or if there is no teamwork. So bad idea.
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1 Reply[quote]So, I managed to squeeze my way into a VOG run. And, what I thought would be a highly intricate hourslong raid was actually quite simple. Which, is why I've become determined to advocate a matchmaking system and vehemently defend my views. First of all, the raid is what I've been looking for in Destiny. What makes me sad, is that there will likely only be one with each expansion. This longform, intricate gameplay is a godsend to someone who's been grinding on Tiger strikes. Beaten senslessly with "defend this, kill that," just learning that I had another role than mindless dps was exhilirating. Not to mention running around a large map with the promise of (good) loot. Now, to my real point. Why the player necessitated requirements are much too high and serve to block people from ever experiencing the raid; thus, plateuing to endless rep grinds for that 3 light to get you to 27 so people will even consider you (even though the raid is level 26!). Then, you have the "experience" requirement. Now, the raid is really simple. Stop kidding yourselves into thinking that it is even near difficult. Sure, knowing where adds come from is important, but, wiping is what raiding is all about! Learn from your mistakes, try again. Develop your strategy. Did no one play Halo on legendary? That was wipe after wipe with tough enemies. Your friend didn't rage quit and barge out your house when you accidentally drove the warthog off the edge near the end of The Maw!! You deal with it, find a solution, switch drivers and try again. So, a matchmaking system would #1 Help people learn the raid #2 Mildly gear them and help them upgrade what legendaries they have #3 Bridge the player-created gap between Hardcore and Casual players. My only suggestion, is that, when matched into a raid, and say, you make it half way and people need to leave, you can use a checkpoint and match with others at that checkpoint at a later date. But, hey, that's just me.[/quote] Wont happen they already said it
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4 RepliesHonestly it's not hard to get a raid group, I post that I need a group and always get an invite within 30 seconds. Seems that the problem here is not the lack of matchmaking but laziness.
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3 RepliesYou can easily find a Raid group here or just ask random people ingame. Once you find a group you always have people to do the raid with.
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2 Replies+1 I like it Of course you would get the ones that just hang out and wont do much but at least the loners would have a chance to join in these raids.
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There are always risks with Matchmaking, especially in a game as gear-driven as Destiny. I still would thoroughly agree that MM would address more problems than it would solve. I just tried my first VoG run this past weekend, and though we got squashed into raspberry jam (without loot except a couple of A-mats) we all had fun and learned a bit. VoG should definitely be the model for much more expansion and story modules (and perhaps later Playlist Strikes as well). Not the same mechanics but mechanics as deep. Sure, there will be lowbies trying to tag in; ask them to leave, kick them if they don't, or leave yourself and get back in rotation. Simple as that really. I think the big hurt (global to Destiny, not just VoG) is that gear seems to drive advancement more than skill in PvE. I'm not a Monster Hunter player, but I'm told that skilled players in MH can crush a hard fight almost regardless of gear, whereas in Destiny being just 1 or 2 levels behind the story enemies makes it brutally hard. The game won't even let you launch the mission if you're more behind than that. This in comparison to the fact that a LEVEL TWO enemy can kill a LEVEL THIRTY player if the player lets them shoot him/her enough. I understand the mentoring system and its benefits, but sometimes the double standard is really annoying. If gear weren't so much a limiter, VoG would be more accessible to more players. Still, that gear mechanic is so baked into the base gameplay of Destiny that I can't see it changing. Oh well, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind... :^P
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1 ReplyTry destiny lfg it's great you just list your gamer tag/psn name, lvl and class, and activity you wish to do and people can search for players like you. It's been floating around the forums for a while so I'm surprised about people complaining about match making. Personally I'm glad there is no raid matchmaking I'd rather have a group with mics and knowledge of the raid rather than noobs who refuse to listen and who don't communicate.
