JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

#Gaming

Edited by mRNA: 6/12/2013 8:59:39 PM
59
36
mRNA

A Sensible Post Regarding the PS4

I encourage those of you of #gaming debating the PS4 vs Xbox One to read this post that was written by a Redditor: [quote] I personally find some of the arguments against the X1 hilarious. Yes, the requirement for being online to play is bad. You should dislike that. But people then go on tangents about how 'the hardware sucks compared to the PS4', etc. Let me start off by saying that I am a professional game developer with quite a bit of console experience. Most of the people attacking the X1's hardware specifications have absolutely no knowledge of what they're talking about. Hardware-wise, the X1 and the PS4 are quite similar. The largest difference that stands out to me is that the PS4 uses GDDR5 whilst the X1 uses DDR3. Many of the rants I've seen have showcased this as 'evidence' that the PS4 is superior. I find this funny, since to me it showcases that they don't know what GDDR5 is. GDDR5 is Graphics RAM. The main distinction is that GDDR5 has much higher bandwidth than DDR3 (as that is needed on graphics cards due to large textures and framebuffers needing to be copied), but this comes at a price: GDDR5 also has far higher latency than DDR3. Rambus' RDRAM suffered back in the early 2000's from the same thing - high bandwidth, high latency compared to DDR. It lost that war. I worry that Sony is making another misstep in replicating what will be high load-hit-store costs on the x86 that existed on the PowerPC (for both the 360 and the PS3, but worse on the latter). Now, having GDDR5 is useful when shared memory is involved, so this is also intruiging, since it means that textures and framebuffers can be passed quickly via DMA. This is a lesson they appeared to have learned from the PS3 (which had a segregated model, much to everyone's chagrin). I expect that the X1 will be GPU bound, and the PS4 will be CPU bound. Due to that, I predict that both will operate roughly the same. An intelligent developer will be able to optimize for both, a task that was nearly impossible with the 360 and the PS3 (due to the PS3's very peculiar SPU setup). On the user side, one of the reasons that /r/gaming seems to dislike the X1 is that they don't realize that they're not the X1's target playerbase. The X1 is being marketed towards youth who play games, casual game players, and people who want to use the X1 for multimedia purposes (as a HTPC of sorts). The PS4 is being marketed towards more general gamers. This is no different than the 360 and the PS3. There is also a good reason for Microsoft wanting to limit the ability to share/resell games... ... because game developers want them to. Microsoft has always been far more friendly with developers than Sony has been, from working with them to the development toolkits. Microsoft, just like Sony, makes most of their money on game licensing and not on the consoles themselves, so this is perfectly reasonable from their point of view, and enough people are likely to buy the X1 for it to be justified to them. This well-reasoned argument by TotalBiscuit on YouTube emphasizes the developer's position on this, and Microsoft is only paying heed to their actual customer (the developer; you aren't the customer, you're customer's customer to them). Used game sales and game-sharing does hurt developers, as much as /r/gaming won't admit that. Unlike music, movies, cars, etc, games don't have multiple revenue streams after purchase. The music industry continues to make money via concerts and royalties. The movie industry continues to make money via rentals, DVDs, royalties, syndication, etc. Cars break down. Games... don't. Games last virtually forever, and the only point at which the developer makes money is when they're sold. There are income models that get around that (MMO, free-to-play), but they aren't ideal in every situation (and indeed I dislike FTP). Companies like GameStop are quite literally stealing profit from developers, particularly when their business model is to convince people to buy used instead of new (they do this because they make far more profit on used games than new games). This is why Microsoft has been pushed by developers to support this model - because the game industry is hurting (and they really are, one only needs to look at all the terminations recently). More interestingly, this isn't really any different than PC gaming. Do you use Steam? There really isn't game sharing/used games there. You don't even have physical media for most PC games anymore. Microsoft is only following in Valve's footsteps, here. Most media is moving towards digital formats, where restrictions on used media is easy and will be implemented. The former is what consumers want, the latter is going to be implemented at the want of content-makers. Welcome to capitalism. [/quote] [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1fyjgr/regarding_xbox_one_and_allegations_of_voterigging/[/url]

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Do you have a link to the actual post?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    2 Replies
    • Bro, you expect me to read all that shit?

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      12 Replies
      • Well said. I cant wait till Xbox One gets released :P

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        41 Replies
        • Damn that is quite the argument. Well played. Both consoles are going to be great though. Screw console wars.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          2 Replies
          • I wish people would actually look at why things are being done, rather than just become ignorantly hateful because they don't like it. Used game limitations are happening for a reason. Fewer used game sales means more new game sales. More new game sales means more money to the developers. More money to the developers means higher budgets. Higher budgets means (usually) better games with more polish, which in turn makes consumers happy. Internet Connectivity is happening for a reason. Internet connectivity means cloud computing is possible. Internet connectivity means easier access to digital versions of all your games from anywhere. The world is rapidly moving towards more and more internet integration in everything. The gaming and internet communities have an absolutely massive overlap, and most of the people getting angry about having to connect to the internet found out about that policy while watching a livestream over their constant internet connection.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            7 Replies
            • if im not mistaken sony developers can still implement drm, if they want.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              1 Reply
              • You see I dont care about used games at all. Hell I am probably one of the few who view used games as bad. I am perfectly fine if used games were phased out. Would mean I couldnt lend games to friends so they could get a taste and see if they liked it but at least the people who deserve the money get the money. My main problems for the xbox one are the 24 check in, and the mandatory kinect. May not interest you but them two reasons are the only ones that at this moment that the ps4 is the only console I will consider.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              • I'm leaning towards a Playstation 4, though I of course won't make a final decision or pre-order or anything until much closer to launch. But after all the hate being spewed around the net, 75% of the threads in this forum being in the vein of "PS4 wins" and "XB1 is the worst thing ever", and seeing people explain their reasons for preferring the Xbox One and just getting overrun with screaming fanboys, I have to ask: do I really want to get a PS4 after all? Is this what the Playstation community and fans are like? Because I don't want to be associated with that kind of fanatical garbage.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                9 Replies
                • If I could just have the ability to share a game with my brother while still being able to play it, I would probably go with the xbox one. There is no way my brother and I are going to buy 2 of each game when we could just share the one game we already have.

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  10 Replies
                  • Edited by Cpl Crosseyes: 6/12/2013 5:29:20 AM
                    Sorry, it's still a horrible argument. First off I take the general consensus of "people with hardware experience" (who may or may not have vested interest in a console doing well being a developer) or not than a single opinion why objectively less advanced tech might be better. That's a wall of text of one guys opinion against the normal accepted one. [quote]The X1 is being marketed towards youth who play games, casual game players, and people who want to use the X1 for multimedia purposes (as a HTPC of sorts).[/quote]So it's marketed towards absolutely no one who would have vested interest and/or or ability buying a 500$ [b]game[/b] console the day it comes out. 360 started out a game console and became a multimedia center as its life went on to dip into the casual crowd after initial install and price drops. [quote]Microsoft is only paying heed to their actual customer[/quote]So they actively WANT to cater to other corporations and businesses while ignoring the consumer? I wonder why there's such uproar in the first place? [quote]Unlike music, movies, cars, etc, games don't have multiple revenue streams after purchase.[/quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_content]O[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_pack]RLY[/url] [quote]Companies like GameStop are quite literally stealing profit from developers[/quote]Decrying used games has only been a scapegoat make out with more money themselves. Gamestop in particular is the one friend they love to pretend is their enemy, decrying them in one press release and giving them all exclusive pre-order bonuses to encourage business there the next day. [quote]More interestingly, this isn't really any different than PC gaming.[/quote]Contrary to popular belief, Steam and DRM does not equal PC gaming. If Steam became a shit service overnight things like Origin or other distribution platforms (or lack thereof, PC games can go 100% solo due to its nature) can swoop in to make them pay. Competition. What will be MS's competition when they and only they have the control over their own marketplace that everything Xbox will be forced to go through or be locked down? There won't be any. And consumers will be straddled with higher prices with more inconvenience with no other option because there is no market on Xbox live, only Microsoft. [quote]Welcome to capitalism. [/quote]The party's been started, and Microsoft brought the kool-aid.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    14 Replies
                    • Here's all that MS needs to do. Make XBLG have great deals like PS+. It's as simple as that. I don't care about free games because I only utilize the consoles for exclusives. Have up to 10% off of all new games If you are an XBLG member, and maybe even up to 15% off of all dlc. Don't say that I'm dreaming, I know I'm dreaming, but if MS can give incentive for their customers then it will definitely be a great feeling for the subscribers to know they are always getting their money back. I never buy used games, and I'm always online. Those two issues mean nothing to me. I don't ever lend games, so I don't worry about that. However, it is the point that MS is too strict when it comes to treating their customers. Two free games a month isn't enough, and they aren't new games. Discounts on new games and dlc is a great place to get our attention and earn our respect. They can be pro-corporation all they want AND still be pro-consumer at the same time. I'm still getting both consoles, but I'm probably going to wait a few months to see what kind of changes happen. Maybe if the Xbox 1 doesn't showcase a profit, MS will do something for their Gold members.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      6 Replies
                      • There's only one point that i feel like addressing today: [quote]More interestingly, this isn't really any different than PC gaming. Do you use Steam? [/quote] When i see the prices for Xbone games drop DRASTICALLY and "steam sales: Xbone edition" become a thing, then this will be a valid argument; until then, off to the far away lands of false equivalency this argument goes!

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        37 Replies
                        • Until I see the One start having Steam esch deals, I aint buying nothin.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • I don't hate the Xbox One, but I still found this to be funny

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • The thing I don't understand with regards to the used games argument: Why not target the companies (or first customers) who sell used games rather than the people who know it's more cost effective to buy used games? You don't target drug users, you target the drug producers... If dev's got a section of the profits from used games via the companies e.g. Gamestop, you'd nail it.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          1 Reply
                          • Edited by Crawley: 6/12/2013 5:15:37 PM
                            This sheds a lot of light on the subject, thank you. One problem I have, though I wish to express first that it's a biased intuition and not based in fact, is that everyone is saying [i]digital is good, more money to publishers and developers is good, it keeps the costs of games down, they'll be able to put on great sales like Steam![/i] In an industry where $60 is the norm and accepted by everyone and gaming sales are few and far between and never very compelling anyway, suddenly a game that sells for the same price as always makes you more money and everyone buys it anyway, why would you start reducing the costs just because it costs you less to distribute? When you sell product X for $Y and you make Z sales and P in profit, why would you reduce the price when your profits go up?

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            3 Replies
                            • Lol, the comments on reddit went from Xbox to benefits of sharp knives in 3 posts flat.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            • That... was... amazing. I feel slightly speechless. I may have to print this off and show it to some people I know that are using these exact arguments. I didn't see how much more thought out the Xbox really is. Wow... just wow.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            • Edited by The Random: 6/12/2013 6:01:07 PM
                              This goes against the lies and over exaggerations that the Sony band wagoners have been preaching about. How DARE you for posting something rational.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              1 Reply
                              • Thank you, and thank god for some rationality. I miss when this forum was only occupied by Xbox players, the PS fans are so rude and immature.

                                Posting in language:

                                 

                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                25 Replies
                                • Edited by An Eagle Flying A Blimp: 6/12/2013 8:06:25 PM
                                  If microsoft truly is out to follow in steam's footsteps I wouldn't mind the X1 as much. Frankly I still prefer the PS4 due to the fact that I get a lot more free goodies from them, more indie titles, and discounts that will pay for PS+'s annual cost and more. I can sympathize with the developers on the used games, but gaming is an expensive hobby and that cheapest option that offers the most to me is the better choice. As it is Sony looks like they're going to be pushing digital copies, so technically the issue of used games may not even survive this console generation regardless of what side you take. In the end, the top console will the the one who gives people the most bang for their buck, and in this case it is the PS4 unless Microsoft makes some serious changes to xbox live services.

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                • Very good read. Thank you.

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                • If Microsoft is aiming for the "casual" audience then they're failing at it. Honestly I don't know who the Xbox One is for. I get the sense Microsoft doesn't know either.

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                  7 Replies
                                  • [quote]Unlike music, movies, cars, etc, games don't have multiple revenue streams after purchase.[/quote] -DLC? -Merchandis like cloths and toys?

                                    Posting in language:

                                     

                                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                    3 Replies
                                    • In regards to what he said about developers loosing money on used game sales: That is just the way the economy works if you don't like it leave.

                                      Posting in language:

                                       

                                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                      6 Replies
                                      • Edited by realdomdom: 6/12/2013 9:53:45 PM
                                        Wall of text =/= good argument, because Quantity =/= Quality. [spoiler]I mean, i could argue with that post point for point, but i don't feel like repeating myself over and over again in different threads.[/spoiler]

                                        Posting in language:

                                         

                                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                        8 Replies
                                        1 2 3
                                        You are not allowed to view this content.
                                        ;
                                        preload icon
                                        preload icon
                                        preload icon