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#feedback

Edited by LordRollin: 1/25/2015 6:48:28 PM
20

Merging New & Old - Practical Ideas for Improving Bungie.net *With Kittens*

Ever since Bungie.net began to change people have been calling for re-implementation of past features, or changes of new features. "We want ___________." While this is a good thing, I strongly believe that the Community's interest in tailoring this site to how they feel it'd work best is great, but it doesn't quite capture any tangible thoughts. How do these ideas play out, what do they look like, and how do they benefit the greater picture? This is what I want to try and lay out, and I'd like to thank everyone in AP, specifically Prometheus, burrito, Burninator, and DE4TH, for providing a lot of structure to ideas I've only had floating around in my head. And if by chance anyone has any artistic prowess, I'd love to have someone provide mock-ups of how these ideas could look. One last thing, I'm going to refer a lot to B.old throughout this post, and I can never stress enough that I don't want the old forums back. I make these references and suggestions in the hopes of creating a new website that melds the things that were good then with the things that are good now. [b]1. The Forums[/b] The newest iteration of Bungie.net has a lot of neat forum features that work well together, but I do believe there are certain features that could be re-envisioned and better implemented. [u]Nested Replies[/u] - These need to go. The downside to nested replies are that instead of having a linear thread where all of the replies are in order, you have a tree where every post can have several branches leading off of it. This ultimately interrupts the flow of conversation, and ultimately all you end up having is a single conversation between two individuals. To solve this solution I suggest returning to an older format similar to what B.old had. Each forum post would have the "reply" option underneath, and if you were to click on it your post would be prefixed with @UserYoureReplyingTo. This prefix would be hyper linked to the initial post so users scrolling through a thread would be able to follow conversations back to their root if they were so inclined. Replying directly to the OP would omit this prefix and would functional as a "post" as opposed to a "reply." In addition a "multi-reply" feature would be useful, where individuals can select multiple individuals to reply to in succession. These features would allow all of the posts to be viewable in a linear fashion so individuals would not need to dig through a mass of sub-replies, and it would allow an individual to create one post to reply to multiple individuals, as opposed to having to create multiple replies to multiple users. [u]Up-Voting/Thread Structure[/u] - The up-voting is a wonderful feature that I think should never be done away with, but it could use a little bit of tweaking. As it stands threads are organized by whichever post has the most recent replies which is a good way of showing which posts are the ones the conversation is centered around, but much like with nested replies, it obscures the flow of the conversation, similar to starting a new movie half way through. Admittedly this feature would not work on smaller devices, I use a TV for my computer screen and as such have a ridiculous amount of real-estate space, but with creative implementation it would work. I suggest that posts again be ordered from oldest to newest, just as with B.old. This would allow users that are new to the conversation to follow the posts chronologically, and not miss out on points that have either been discussed, or information that it necessary to reply to. In addition, similar to how the "Followed Tags" bar appears on the left side of the screen on the desktop version, there could be a "Highest Voted" and "Most replied to" news feed on the right side of the screen, allowing users to see which posts are most popular within the thread, and to navigate to them directly if they desire. If nothing else, adding filters to individuals threads that would allow you to sort by post age, popularity, and no. of replies would accomplish this to the same extent, and would most likely function better for the companion app. This feature would only work if Nested Replies were removed, otherwise the continuity of posts would still be interrupted, even if you could view them from the very beginning. I also do not believe a "newest post" filter would be necessary, as it is not difficult to navigate to the end of a thread. That said, it wouldn't hurt either. [u]Tagging[/u] - Tagging, I believe, is one of the best features that the new iteration of Bnet brought. It allows users to organize their threads making it easier for others to in turn to locate threads of interest. My only complaint is with the #Destiny, #Community, etc., tags. Yes, they do function the same way as individual forums, but this suggestion is a little less about function and more on feeling. As the system stands forums don't feel like forums, but more like a giant room with angry roommates that divided the room up from one another with tape. There are clear divisions, but they don't feel particularly individual. One of the things I enjoyed most about B.old was the individual communities that each forum had. Users had a preferred habitat and they had a strong identity with it. Yes, the Flood hated the Community forum, and the Community forum wanted nothing more then for Achronos to nuke the Flood, but in a way it was kind of charming, like a sibling rivalry. I'm not entirely sure how something like this could be put into place, but clearer divisions between forums, I think, would help strengthen the Community and the culture that these forums have for so long supported. [b]2. Member Titles[/b] Technically these belong under the forums section, but I believe that they are important enough to warrant their own. Member titles served several different function on B.old. Yes, they were hats users sometimes wore a little bit too proudly, but they were also more. They were rewards for being a user that met the qualities that the Community favored, and they were a sign of recognition that let the more experienced users stand out from the masses. Every users post should be held to equal esteem, but there are plenty of long time users on Bnet that have good information to share, but are unable to do so because they don't have "Mentor" or "Moderator" next to their name. Account age isn't something that is prominently displayed, and as such it means very little. Bringing back titles would be a boon for so much more then just the egos of a few. They would help the Community. The idea that I'm most fond of for titles is again, and improved system of what B.old had. As a nod to older users I'd love to see the old "Heroic," "Legendary," and "Mythic" make a comeback. For the base titles I feel that account age would be a good requirement for the titles. A way to encourage users to invest into a single account for the long term. Then, in addition to the base titles there would be prefixes and suffixes. Prefixes would be similar if not identical to the old prefixes. Granted to users for various factors, such as length of time without being banned, activity, etc.. Suffixes however, would be tied directly to Destiny, and would come from the various factions in the game(similar to what Prometheus has in mind), but instead of being based off of Bnet activity and accomplishments, they would be tied to Destiny and perhaps grimoire progress. For example, unlocking the grimoire for a Fallen Captain would earn you the suffix of "Captain," or perhaps "Gate Lord." Additionally, prefixes and suffixes would be customize able, and users would be able to select which ones they would like their profiles to display. One day a user could be an "Intrepid Heroic Gate Lord", and the next, a "Honorable Heroic Captain". Ok, so Honorable Heroic Captain doesn't necessarily work, because the Fallen are none of those things, but surely a system like this would not only be popular, but would be functional too. Allowing users to not only become legend in game, but on the forums as well. [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/95521952/0/0/1]Continues...[/url]

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  • Thanks for the feedback! There's a lot to comment on, and I'm not necessarily allowed to comment on the bulk of it, so I'm just going to forward it to the right people. And I was fully prepared to ban you if you didn't deliver on the kittens.

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    • Well, uh... Yeah.

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      • 2
        Great post, Rollin. I'd like to add to some of your points. Nesting: I've kinda become used to the nested conversations at this point. I don't think it's better, but I'm used to it. The system adds a bit of functionality that isn't available in a standard forum. And the amount of work it would take to convert the site back to a "typical" layout makes me think nesting is here to stay. But I think your points about it are spot on. Upvoting/downvoting: This is something that could work really well because of nesting. So I think it's a good example of why nesting should probably stay. But everything you say about it is again spot on, IMO. The ability to filter between newest, oldest, most active, and most upvoted would give us a lot of customization in our viewing. Add in the ability to automatically hide posts with a certain amount of downvotes, or bump posts made by people you follow.. and we now have one hell of tool at our disposal. Tagging: This is most underutilized feature of the site, IMO. And all it would really take to make it awesome is three things. 1) a tag filtering system that lets us "follow" tags and view only which ones we want (or view all if I choose). We're close with this now, but it could be more in depth. 2) A homepage that lets us view our followed tags from one page (Think reddits home page). and 3) rules that make applying an appropriate tag during thread creation mandatory (some sort of secondary tags could be used for custom tagging). This would add yet another layer of user customization and "experience" creation. Member titles: I've always believed that providing incentive produces better results. I'd personally like to see a system where members "rank up" in some way and earn forum privileges for doing so. Time of membership, activity level, ban history, likes received, etc could all factor into the equation much like you suggested. But achieving certain tiers would unlock benefits to the forum like custom avatars, access to a "members only" forum, the ability to link more than one image in a post, and member flair like the titles mods and staff have. Tangible incentives for rule breakers to be a little better, and rewards for members who's put in their time and didn't cause many problems. Anyway, just my two cents on the matter. Regardless, it's nice to see some civil open discussion of these issues again.

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      • Edited by LordRollin: 1/25/2015 6:50:04 PM
        [b]Private Chapters[/b] I use the term private chapters as opposed to groups, because that's what I'd like to see happen. Right now groups feel a lot like the forums, a taped of section of a big room, but the tape is double wide in this case. Group integration into the public forums is amazing, and can be utilized in so many creative ways, but making groups feel like their own little hideout again would help make them feel like groups again, and not some corner of the forums. [u]Group Wall[/u] - I have mixed feelings about the group wall, but I cannot deny that it has revitalized groups in a way that I don't think anyone really expected, and as such, I feel strongly that it should stay. There are, however, a few problems with the group wall. The one big one is that it's difficult to keep up with when it comes to wordier conversations, which, by the nature of the group wall isn't something that can be fixed by changing the group wall. Instead I feel that it needs to be fixed through the group forums. [u]Group Forums[/u] - Group forums need to be cool again. Stickies, news stories, custom member titles, all of these things helped groups feel like functional, independent entities, and it was really awesome having them. I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say that groups were where a lot of really good friendships were made. Re-implementing these features, and even adding news one would help breathe life into groups and give them more of a purpose other then the group wall. [u]Notifications[/u] - The reason the group wall is so successful is because people are lazy. Myself included. Why click all those links to go to the forums and see if there's anything new that's been posted when instead you can just open your PMs and chat? Implementing a separate notification system similar to what private messages have (personal & group seperated) would help fix this laziness issue. Everytime there's activity in the forums of a group, you get a notification. Not one notification for every post, but just one notification, per group, that says "hey, something happened here today." I'm fairly confident that something as simple as that would be a great way of breathing new life into gropups. Hopefully I haven't talked too much, and I certainly could go on, but I believe that these are the ideas that, if implemented, would help, once again, create a more of a Community feeling to the forums. They'd improve user experiences, and help make the website as a whole more functional. From there we can worry about others things, like a dark theme or what have you, but to start, I think these are the big ones. I know they're not going to be easy to implement, at least, I assume not, I know nothing of coding, but I know it'll be worth it. And as always, I cannot stress how important dialogue between the people who help build our Community and the Community itself is crucial. Just like my dad I'm a bit of a broken record, but I will never stop saying that we want to help. We know we're not the ones that are going to be writing the code or moving the mountains, but we all have ideas and skills that we want to use to help Bungie.net be the Community it has been, should be, and will be again. **I also request longer character limits for individuals like myself that can't seem to stop talking.

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        • Tremendous.

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        • *saves thread*

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        • I'd rather Bungie focus on their games first xD

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        • Great thread, great points. It's not about reverting back to the old ways, its just that why did we have to lose everything that worked well with the new stuff. A lot of the new stuff is awesome, but I don't see why it needed to be a trade off. The same can even be said about the game, they brought some cool new stuff to the table, but at he same time trading all the core things that help foster a community, like custom games and forge. It feels like things are being changed for the sake of being different from the past regardless of whether or not it is for a better purpose.

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        • Puurrfect... No, seriously some good ideas. [spoiler]Except for "The Captain Gatelord" bit;)[/spoiler]

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          • It took me a while, but I kinda like nested replies now. That being said they can feel clunky sometimes. They could use a bit of a clean up. The big thing for me is that the site fails to adequately direct users to the right forums for posting threads. It's gotten a little bit better thanks to work by the Flood, comments by DeeJ, additions to the site by the web team, etcetera, however it still needs a LOT of work. At best it went from little to no direction to vague sub-titles that barely do anything. Utilize the banners to lay down the law, or notify people of exactly what they should be posting in that particular forum, or [i]something[/i]. It needs to be direct. It needs to be in people's face. All the other fixes are dancing around the problem and it just hasn't worked. Another thing, not big, but I'd like it if they mentioned the app is just a portal for the actual Bungie.net. Too many people think this place is just part of an app and it degrades how they act in general. They don't understand how old or how rich this community's history actually is. Finally, something needs to be done about the absolute shit attitude that starts in #Destiny and spreads outward. There's so much senseless anger in there. It's insane.

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            • I like it all, and will add; [b]Notifications[/b] Make is so that you are able to personally toggle off Group wall notifications. Messages that are not things aimed toward you should never pop up in your notifications as a message to begin with. It's extremely annoying and tiresome to have '1 New Message', only to have it be someone posting an LFG, I'm on the toilet, or some other lol - garbage posts. You delete the 'Message' only to have another one pop up a few minutes later. Really, really unnecessary and unwanted feature, imo. Most groups I am in refuse to activate them for this very reason. Those who are using them have done so with an intent to be used for a specific purpose, but it is not something that everyone should be subjected to if they are not participants in that 'purpose'.

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            • Bump and supported

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            • I like everything in this thread more than burritosenior. [i]However[/i], while I think all these ideas are excellent and ought to be implemented, if we want to see a return to what the forum was like in its heyday, Bungie may have to step up beyond altering functions on the site. A major element that made the old site so great was constant community interaction; which is something I feel to be rather flimsy of late. When's the last time we had studio webcams, Bungie podcasts, or Community Ride Alongs? We as the community can foster interaction between ourselves through SeventhConflux and such, which is great, but I feel many of the older members yearn for a more consistent presence from Bungie among the community.

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            • I like everything in this thread.

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              • Yes, to all of this, just yes.

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              • *sniffles* That was beautiful. The nested replies feature of the current iteration of the forums has limited my participation in even threads I have a real interest in and I agree that returning to a system similar to B.old (is that what the kids are calling it now?) would be a much desired improvement. As for titles? I'm not so hung up on those. I did notice that great value were placed in these hats though, despite there being nothing of actual value that initially came from them. However, as they continued to exist they took on a life of their own. Mythics were often held in respect (even though there were plenty nasty users with blue bars. Losing your title was something that became a concern for many as well. While I don't have any numbers, I can take a guess and assume that it may have made a few second guess a questionable action or two at some point. Honestly I would like to see them return in some fashion and not only tied to Destiny, but B.net as well. Promote product and community! While I probably don't use the vote function on the forums as much as I should, I do see their usefulness. If we could get back to the original forum structure I wouldn't mind seeing the return of the "Top Forum Topic" side bar. This could be tailored with filters and include followed topics and singular posts. In a thread itself I wouldn't mind seeing highly voted topics bolded or made to stand out somehow without being moved or pushed to the top like it is now in default view. As for group stuff... I can't comment. I've never really been invested in that side of B.net, though I often thought I should.

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              • I like pretty much everything here. But especially all of my yes to a group activity notification. I can't count how many times I've looked at the sidebar and thought, "Oh yeah, groups exist beyond the message board. I wish there was some reminder for me to check them out."

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              • Thank you.

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              • Eloquently stated, as usual. Hopefully the Web Team takes notes.

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              • OMG Kittens. But seriously, you might want to consider putting Corgi's in Halloween costumes... Ask Progo why.

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