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The First Legend

The First Legend

12/10/2007 8:26:23 PM
Titles based on join dates? You have to be kidding me. Why take out join dates from in forum viewable profiles, always talk about combating elitism, then give titles like heroic member, and legendary member? That is the dumbest most selfcontradicting thing I've ever seen. I am deeply dissappointed in any system that promotes elitism, but even more so in one that promotes elitism, based on time, not any type of contribution. Its simply stupid to me to see someone who has just gotten off a ban, and yet they are supposed to be "heroic." I find this to be really stupid. That being said, I like the report as spam option, and I hope it isnt abused, or used in a pointless manner. [Edited on 12.10.2007 12:27 PM PST]

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    Pezz

    Pezz

    12/11/2007 3:53:39 AM Permalink
    I'm not involved in this so I can act how I want without it looking like I am covering my own ass here. So let me lock this because - well if you don't like the site, get out. Besides, you type awfully like Logical so I will take a stab and say; this discussion is done. Don't like that I locked it? Too bad for that too. Be thankful you get anything at all in a community this sized. And if it IS based so heavily on join dates then I have some news for you; I look at join dates before I hit unleash ninja's - this feature saves me a few clicks to see how much punishment should be dispensed. This changes nothing.
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    Security Officer

    Security Officer

    12/11/2007 3:50:53 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Flame Killa 2PC [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos No. Even the mods can't see it. Although for me, the raw number appears underneath the unleash ninjas button. However, it is likely that more positive reinforcement will be tied to this rating eventually. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PKF_647 Could we please have a way to know where we stand on the "Trust Scale" other than the custom titles?[/quote][/quote] Thats because there is no [i]truth scale[/i]. My friend who's only post like SIX times and has made only like 3 topics that no one replied to, and he is a heroic member! And he has been around for 2 years, that proves its based on time.[/quote] Proves? Not really, only if you think that it is one way or the other. But there are so many more variables that could have/add values into the trust system. Use your imagination. Is your friend in any groups? How about founding any? No warnings or bans? How about participating in threads that tend to get locked? Do they have a linked gamertag? What about their Halo 2/3 playing abilities? Ever hit by the banhammer? How about messages from the Soul? Or credit for exploring aspects of this site? Or replies in threads for news articles? Or submitted avatars? PM's with employees, moderators or other members with high trust? Or Halo 3 content that gets a certain number of hits or downloads.... seriously, there are a lot of potential sources that could feed into this system. Having a long standing account with no recent negative marks is just one.... and not one that could be made overnight. But it could be lost if he did start feeding the system with current negatives. I can think of plenty of things that could either be considered positive or negative in relation to a trust system. Each of them are speculation. Your proposal that it is only one thing is speculation as well. And one that has been stated to not be the only factor in a trust determination by the man who sees the system work. I don't see how clean long term account is a bad thing to reward. If the reward is abused, the ability to lose trust is quick and easy to demonstrate. You think that your friend's account would keep that status if he abused the rules? You're welcome to repeat your speculation, you're welcome to believe it. But I am neither inclined nor obligated to agree with your conclusion.
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    Flame Killa 2PC

    Flame Killa 2PC

    12/11/2007 3:36:14 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos No. Even the mods can't see it. Although for me, the raw number appears underneath the unleash ninjas button. However, it is likely that more positive reinforcement will be tied to this rating eventually. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PKF_647 Could we please have a way to know where we stand on the "Trust Scale" other than the custom titles?[/quote][/quote] Thats because there is no [i]truth scale[/i]. My friend who's only post like SIX times and has made only like 3 topics that no one replied to, and he is a heroic member! And he has been around for 2 years, that proves its based on time.
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    Apocalypse3210

    Apocalypse3210

    12/11/2007 3:34:40 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] prometheus25 Do not turn the ranks into something they are not. As Ultima said, [i]you're[/i] giving them influence. Ignore them if you're unhappy with them and are only going to resort to personal attacks.[/quote] Easy for you to say with you're little heroic tag. Still haven't unforgotten about that "honorable mention" you gave me.....[/sarcasm] But, in this instance Prometheus's right, the ranks have as much influence on the forums as the military ranks do on gameplay: only as much as you let them have. Ignore them, elevate them, try to earn your own (please don't go on a posting spree), cry to your mommy about them, leave the forums, or just get over it. They are a neat addition but nothing compared to the spam button. [i]I will never be blacklisted for an hour for helping the mods again! Yay!(No joke)[/i]
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    Deleted User

    Deleted User

    12/11/2007 3:21:18 AM Permalink
    Why do you keep trying to use Foman as your scapegoat when Foman himself has said that he is fine with his current "title". I would argue that someone like Foman doesn't even need a custom title because people know him without it. What difference would it make? If he was a mythic member I would still expect him to post the same as if he's just a regular member. The posts would be the same (lengthy) and the quality would be the same. The title does not make the member...the member makes the title. *goes to Quick Stop*
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    Prometheus25

    Prometheus25

    12/11/2007 3:17:16 AM Permalink
    Do not turn the ranks into something they are not. As Ultima said, [i]you're[/i] giving them influence. Ignore them if you're unhappy with them and are only going to resort to personal attacks.
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    The First Legend

    The First Legend

    12/11/2007 2:54:57 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] UL71M4 G33K Legend, I think you don't realize that the only person putting weight into our titles is you. It seems you care more than practically every other member in here about these ranks, and therefore want them removed because you don't feel loved. Im sorry to say, but stop being selfish. Its just some text on a forum, get over it.[/quote] I actually laughed at this. I dont know if you think you are above your own comments, but you switched from your regular account to your older account directly after these new titles were put on. With this knowledge in mind you made a very funny post.
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    The First Legend

    The First Legend

    12/11/2007 2:52:45 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartakus14 No actually you wouldn't be, You see, when one account gets banned on a computer, any other accounts accessed from the computer are banned by the soul to stop people from getting around bans. so both accounts would have a ban on them.[/quote] Let me just say you know very little about the banning system, and for reasons I dont want to explain(people will do what I say if I do) you can get around any type of ban very easy. I dont know what types this site uses, but i'm sure with the high traffic, they are VERY easy to get around. [quote] Also, Foman did not run ARG. He was just the one who started the group about it. He was deeply involved in figuring it out, but did not run it.[/quote] What I was saying was he ran the group about it, sorry for not being more specific, but basically he ran the major effort to crack them open. [quote] And were all regular members, with just some different titles. Different titles don't really mean that they have more/less power/authority over others. It's just a reward for good behavior. The only people with power over others here is the people with salmon and gold coloured text.[/quote] No it isnt. Realistically its a reward for time invested in the site, and for not screwing up too massively. [quote] So, get over yourself, it's just the internet. This is not the end of life as we know it. You will either continue on coming to this site after this is all blown over, or you want in which case you won't be missed by many because you are just an anonymous person on the internet arguing over something that doesn't really matter in life.[/quote] I love this one. You do realize youre responding to arguments over something that doesnt matter in real life and that nobody would miss you because you are anonymous person over the internet. I mean really, other than flamebaiting what was the purpose of this section? Just so that I can know.
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    Deleted User

    Deleted User

    12/11/2007 2:48:11 AM Permalink
    Legend, I think you don't realize that the only person putting weight into our titles is you. It seems you care more than practically every other member in here about these ranks, and therefore want them removed because you don't feel loved. Im sorry to say, but stop being selfish. Its just some text on a forum, get over it.
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    Deleted User

    Deleted User

    12/11/2007 2:47:57 AM Permalink
    well said, ReZeNeR, i don't see this new system as elitism, I think it is a way to better our community and stop spammers, even if you think it is elitism and care about the word that comes before member, no else cares [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ReZeNeR You people have to stop "freaking out" over these trust titles. It's a two worded title, big deal. Having a title higher up from another person doesn't make you any better than them, not by a long shot. The whole purpose of the trusted members feature is to help keep spam to a minimum. So instead of complaining about elitism and other junk, accept the new feature with open arms and welcome that these forums will be cleaner than before. [/quote]
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    spartakus14

    spartakus14

    12/11/2007 2:27:12 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The First Legend This plus the issues I'm already seeing where a prerequisite is time in, doesnt make a user more trustworthy, instead it simply adds to time. If I wouldve made an account and never posted on it five years ago, but spammed on another account every day, and I trust worthy? One would have me listed as a mythic member, although I am clearly not trustworthy. Another example is foman, they trust him enough to run ARG, but he isnt trusted enough to have the title of heroic member? I mean get real. The system, if you wanted to use one like this, should be based on points given by moderators, where 1 post gives a certain value, a warn takes down a certain amount, a 3 day ban takes down an amount, and so on, and a mod can also give points for posts like cryptic's post reguarding switching windows live IDs. That to me would be far more accurate than a system which doesnt judge quality at all and instead judges in large party by time in. I just dont see how someone who doesnt post at all is a mythic member, but the guy who ran ARG is a regular member, same as every troll or banned user on this site, prehaps even lower than some.[/quote] No actually you wouldn't be, You see, when one account gets banned on a computer, any other accounts accessed from the computer are banned by the soul to stop people from getting around bans. so both accounts would have a ban on them. Also, Foman did not run ARG. He was just the one who started the group about it. He was deeply involved in figuring it out, but did not run it. And were all regular members, with just some different titles. Different titles don't really mean that they have more/less power/authority over others. It's just a reward for good behavior. The only people with power over others here is the people with salmon and gold coloured text. So, get over yourself, it's just the internet. This is not the end of life as we know it. You will either continue on coming to this site after this is all blown over, or you want in which case you won't be missed by many because you are just an anonymous person on the internet arguing over something that doesn't really matter in life.
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    Basilisk666

    Basilisk666

    12/11/2007 2:23:09 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SS_Zag1 I think someone should strip this man's title. He's clearly saying he's better than the rest of the world. >_> More importantly, I think he says he's better than me! Pfft. Heroic MVP would be pretty hilariously awesome though. I think they're running out of title spaces. (Unless 15 is just the GROUP limit) [Disclaimer: This entire post was a joke. Unfortunate if you didn't laugh.] (See, this is the minefield I walk through with these comments)[/quote] I found it funny. Mostly just because if he gets it, I could probably complain enough and get it for myself, too. :)
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    RomanArrow

    RomanArrow

    12/11/2007 2:13:01 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The First Legend This plus the issues I'm already seeing where a prerequisite is time in, doesnt make a user more trustworthy, instead it simply adds to time. If I wouldve made an account and never posted on it five years ago, but spammed on another account every day, and I trust worthy? One would have me listed as a mythic member, although I am clearly not trustworthy. Another example is foman, they trust him enough to run ARG, but he isnt trusted enough to have the title of heroic member? I mean get real. The system, if you wanted to use one like this, should be based on points given by moderators, where 1 post gives a certain value, a warn takes down a certain amount, a 3 day ban takes down an amount, and so on, and a mod can also give points for posts like cryptic's post reguarding switching windows live IDs. That to me would be far more accurate than a system which doesnt judge quality at all and instead judges in large party by time in. I just dont see how someone who doesnt post at all is a mythic member, but the guy who ran ARG is a regular member, same as every troll or banned user on this site, prehaps even lower than some.[/quote] Achronos has also said a manual system of inputting points is not a good idea, because the moderators are human, and will have various biases. I know he has also been saying a trust system was in the works. I think he decided to compromise with us, to a point, and give the members here something to strive for. The system does also take alternate accounts into mind when alotting the "points", or whatever it is that determines the ranks. While I do think Foman deserved something, I do not want it to come from manual input, because that could only cause problems. Actually, i think if anyone were to get something I think is undeserved, it was him I would want to get most, because he wouldn't let it go to his head and stop being a productive member. He won't complain about it on the forums, like I could and do see many other members doing. This is with no insult to Foman, by the way.
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    ReZeNeR

    ReZeNeR

    12/11/2007 2:07:55 AM Permalink
    You people have to stop "freaking out" over these trust titles. It's a two worded title, big deal. Having a title higher up from another person doesn't make you any better than them, not by a long shot. The whole purpose of the trusted members feature is to help keep spam to a minimum. So instead of complaining about elitism and other junk, accept the new feature with open arms and welcome that these forums will be cleaner than before.
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    Flame Killa 2PC

    Flame Killa 2PC

    12/11/2007 1:58:32 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HpZ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Saint HpZ, Reiginko is a Mythic Member. [:[/quote]Never heard of him. Is he still active?[/quote] Wow, a member since 11/17/2001. Hes from the [i]old[/i] days.
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    The First Legend

    The First Legend

    12/11/2007 1:34:46 AM Permalink
    I did quick search on this and I found a few posts that sum up how I feel about all of this. [quote]Making good posts and generally being a decent member is all anyone on this site should strive for. Quite frankly people who do it actually stand out more, have their own flair to their posts that give them individuality, and are more respected by their fellow members. For me I like to think I make somewhat decent posts sometimes, I do have some flair (35 pieces to be exact), and I do get some respect from my fellow members for doing so. It makes me feel good to be a decent member of such a high traffic site. An individual avatar, pretty text, and a title would just not do anything for me. [/quote] [quote][quote] Elitism- Consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.[/quote] Personally, I don't really care much for titles. Post counters, join dates, reputation systems, special titles, having "senior members," these are all examples of elitism. In essence, elitism is competition. It's when you try to distinguish yourself from everyone else for the sake of trying to make yourself look special. If you want to find joy in this site, then do so by making contributions, not by looking to become a "veteran member." Take a look around, get to know everyone else, invest yourself in the community, make suggestions. These are all things that anyone can do to enrich not only their own, but everyone else's experience on bungie.net. The post counter is something that has been continuously bashed everytime that it has been brought up since it was removed, because it was a means of elitism. Join dates were hidden for a reason: because they were another symbol of elitism. Do you want to be part of a community where everyone is competing for positions, or do you want to be part of a community where the sole purpose is for everyone to enjoy themselves and contribute?[/quote] This plus the issues I'm already seeing where a prerequisite is time in, doesnt make a user more trustworthy, instead it simply adds to time. If I wouldve made an account and never posted on it five years ago, but spammed on another account every day, and I trust worthy? One would have me listed as a mythic member, although I am clearly not trustworthy. Another example is foman, they trust him enough to run ARG, but he isnt trusted enough to have the title of heroic member? I mean get real. The system, if you wanted to use one like this, should be based on points given by moderators, where 1 post gives a certain value, a warn takes down a certain amount, a 3 day ban takes down an amount, and so on, and a mod can also give points for posts like cryptic's post reguarding switching windows live IDs. That to me would be far more accurate than a system which doesnt judge quality at all and instead judges in large party by time in. I just dont see how someone who doesnt post at all is a mythic member, but the guy who ran ARG is a regular member, same as every troll or banned user on this site, prehaps even lower than some. [Edited on 12.10.2007 5:35 PM PST]
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    Fr1day

    Fr1day

    12/11/2007 1:10:04 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos .......... [i]I'm frankly sick and tired of the cries of elitism everyone also makes here. We've tried removing titles, removing join dates, banning the word noob, yet you people still create divisions like this anyway, be it on skill level in the game, using various words, grammar, etc. I've come to the conclusion that part of the problem around here is that there is no real incentive for people to behave well other than "you won't get banned." And even then, some of you just create new accounts and continue being jerks on those accounts.[/i] So, we're changing tactics, something I was originally going to do last year but had to stop work on it because of Halo 3. So, this is the first of a few ideas I have for rewarding people who do well. And as for your cries of "elitism" - well, if you see it, you have a shiny "report as spam" button to report it. If people don't report stuff, now, it is your own fault, not the moderators' lack of coverage....... [/quote] I think this is the first time I have noticed a tone of strain/annoyance from Achronos. Sort of like when a parent says to you "I'm not angry, just disappointed" It always seems to hit home harder that way. [Edited on 12.10.2007 5:11 PM PST]
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    Crow

    Crow

    12/11/2007 12:58:21 AM Permalink
    How the heck did this thread last another 3 pages? *Looks at above post and understands the world a little more each day.*
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    Imaginal

    Imaginal

    12/11/2007 12:48:25 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] prometheus25 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] roman arrow12 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] prometheus25 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xfire grunt Good features. IMO, as a little added incentive give Mythic Members a "Custom Avatar", seeing as anybody that high must be an amazing member. [/quote] I disagree. No incentives/advantages should be given...yet.[/quote] I think the yet part is most important. I wouldn't want anything to be given out, at least not until things have settled down. Then again, I can't really think of anything Bungie could possibly give out, at all. I think Achronos pushed his morals and whatnot to the limit with the new titles, so let's leave him alone for a bit ;)[/quote] Agreed.[/quote] Agreed. At least they gave us [b]something.[/b] Right?
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    Prometheus25

    Prometheus25

    12/11/2007 12:45:16 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] roman arrow12 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] prometheus25 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xfire grunt Good features. IMO, as a little added incentive give Mythic Members a "Custom Avatar", seeing as anybody that high must be an amazing member. [/quote] I disagree. No incentives/advantages should be given...yet.[/quote] I think the yet part is most important. I wouldn't want anything to be given out, at least not until things have settled down. Then again, I can't really think of anything Bungie could possibly give out, at all. I think Achronos pushed his morals and whatnot to the limit with the new titles, so let's leave him alone for a bit ;)[/quote] Agreed.
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    RomanArrow

    RomanArrow

    12/11/2007 12:38:45 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] prometheus25 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xfire grunt Good features. IMO, as a little added incentive give Mythic Members a "Custom Avatar", seeing as anybody that high must be an amazing member. [/quote] I disagree. No incentives/advantages should be given...yet.[/quote] I think the yet part is most important. I wouldn't want anything to be given out, at least not until things have settled down. Then again, I can't really think of anything Bungie could possibly give out, at all. I think Achronos pushed his morals and whatnot to the limit with the new titles, so let's leave him alone for a bit ;)
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    BerserkerBarage

    BerserkerBarage

    12/11/2007 12:37:59 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mastercheif 22 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BerserkerBarage [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mastercheif 22 What exactly is a Webcam MVP?[/quote] Well I am obviously. My shiny title tells me so. *pets shiny title* More specifically, I won the "webcam" game that they did occasionally before H3 launched. It was just a forum game done by Mr. Hand. (who apparently works for Bungie). I just got the answer right and *boom* new shiny title. ~B.B.[/quote] Thanks![/quote] No problemo! I am curious what I would be if not for my Webcam MVP? Anyway to find out? ~B.B.
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    Deleted User

    Deleted User

    12/11/2007 12:37:56 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SS_Zag1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] El Roboto I didn't see this new addition coming.[/quote] Folks need heroes... On the forum.[/quote] People like you give me hope... On the forum.
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    SS_Zag1

    SS_Zag1

    12/11/2007 12:35:40 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] El Roboto I didn't see this new addition coming.[/quote] Folks need heroes... On the forum.
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    NeoNerd

    NeoNerd

    12/11/2007 12:33:26 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BerserkerBarage [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mastercheif 22 What exactly is a Webcam MVP?[/quote] Well I am obviously. My shiny title tells me so. *pets shiny title* More specifically, I won the "webcam" game that they did occasionally before H3 launched. It was just a forum game done by Mr. Hand. (who apparently works for Bungie). I just got the answer right and *boom* new shiny title. ~B.B.[/quote] Thanks!
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    BerserkerBarage

    BerserkerBarage

    12/11/2007 12:29:06 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mastercheif 22 What exactly is a Webcam MVP?[/quote] Well I am obviously. My shiny title tells me so. *pets shiny title* More specifically, I won the "webcam" game that they did occasionally before H3 launched. It was just a forum game done by Mr. Hand. (who apparently works for Bungie). I just got the answer right and *boom* new shiny title. ~B.B.
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