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#Bungie

11/15/2013 4:54:19 PM
50

Lack of Damage Control: Methods Vs. Outcomes- A Theory

As I am sure everybody knows, last night there was a pretty large outcry from the Bungie fanbase as Bungie announced that PS4 users would be getting dibs on the Beta before anyone else. Some people are furious, others apparently don't mind, and a smaller amount are happy (not due to numbers of people as a whole in gaming, but because playstation users have yet to become as numerous as Xbox users on Bungie.net). I find myself in the former category, and I would take this opportunity to explain why. Bungie has traditionally been a company with a large focus on the community. This has been their stance- their methodology- for years. Many years ago, Bungie developed on computers rather than consoles, and enabled things like voice communications in-game. For funding purposes, Bungie was purchased by Microsoft and their RTS/3PS/Squad Based Shooter/ Whatever-at-the-time, currently named Halo, was instead developed for the Xbox. Microsoft saw the potential in this title and company, and brought it into exclusivity by purchasing the company that made it. Bungie needed the publicity and the funding for this project, and we all know it was for the best because that project turned into one of the most culturally significant titles ever released- Halo: CE. But this was done from necessity, and at this point Microsoft owned both Bungie and Halo. That's right. For those of you who do not know any better, let me say that again. [i]Microsoft owned Halo[/i]. In 2007 when Bungie became an independent company, people say Bungie gave away the rights to Halo. This is a misconception. Bungie never owned Halo since they were bought by Microsoft. Microsoft has owned Halo for well over a decade now. Therefore regardless of how Bungie wished to expand or publicize, it was Microsoft's choice. Fast forwarding, Halo became a title very community oriented. Custom games rather than just private games ('custom' being the key word, as in customizable). The variance in gameplay made possible, and even moreso with Halo 3's Forge Mode which was outstanding at the time. Bungie would hold contests and interact with the community regularly both for the sake of publicity and because Bungie was very focused and tight with their community. For example, look at Bungie.net. During Halo 3's era this was considered the most advanced and in-depth developer website in the world. The vast majority of people came for statistics which were incredibly detailed at the time. Bungie invested many, many resources into this project and it showed just how community oriented Bungie was as a company. Fastforward to Halo 3: ODST. Bungie told us it would be what... a $30 title? That was a public statement. Then the game price was announced by Microsoft and we were absolutely floored that it was $60 instead. Bungie lied to us, they are greedy, they just want money, yaddya yaddya. But later, Bungie made another announcement. Included with ODST would be the Halo 3: Mythic disk. This included Halo 3 multiplayer and every piece of DLC ever made for the game. Currently the Legendary Pack is $2, Mythic $5, and Mythic2 is $10. Now keep in mind the fact that those were all $10 at the time of ODST. So Bungie managed to balance out the price by getting Microsoft to let them include that in there. It was a stroke of genius. And let's not forget how Cold Storage is free to this day! So now. We are in 2013, and we have emerged from the darkness. I came to this website every single day during the darkness. This is because I was loyal to Bungie, I felt valued, loved the community, and couldn't wait to see what would come out next. Throughout the darkness, those of us here were promised time and time again that we would not be forgotten, that we would be 'rewarded' for staying here. 'Rewarded' for being good members of the community and sticking it through to the end. We would be 'rewarded' for being test subjects of the new forums. I ask those of you that stayed. What have we gotten? Many of us have lost our private groups, places that hold very special places in our hearts. We've lost our sense of community as everything is now a jumbled mess. Holding conversations as a group is nigh impossible because the current forum structure only realistically keeps hold of one on one communications. What we have received... is a number in our profile saying how long we've been here, invisible to everybody that doesn't click your name, and [currently] 17 codes that redeem something in Destiny- but that EVERYBODY gets. And it's cool- people sticking around should get something. It's not like I want those exclusive to a console or anything. Not being able to get the complete game like that would be a terrible thing, I think. ... And yet here we are. When we all deduced that Bungie would be developing for the Playstation by the leaked contract, and even before then the job requests for Playstation developers to work at Bungie, there was no outcry. The community, for nearly everybody, was actually [i]pleased[/i]. No gamer worth anybody's time [i]wants[/i] something to be exclusive to only one chunk of the community. Very few people actually [i]want[/i] others to be left out of something. So the Xbox... no, the [i]Bungie[/i] community was happy with this development. The community would expand. It would grow with new life brought by a whole new mass of people swarming the website for what we all honestly believed would be a title for the ages. Rare are the times when the community would come together in such agreement. There is where things started to sour. Bungie wanted to expand to a new community, which the Bungie community was thrilled about. But their methods... their methods left people quite confused at first. Destiny was announced for the PS4, and the Xbox was never even mentioned. It was almost like it being multiplatform was a secret. Like they didn't want people to realize it was not an exclusive. Next. An exclusive partnership was announced between Bungie and Sony. People were upset over this. We welcomed the playstation users to the community. But it sucks that they are going to be getting things. Yet there was not a truly massive outcry because people interpreted this commonly as Sony users getting, say, some custom skins or other small items. And even then those things might be timed exclusives, so for such inconsequential things it wasn't really worth the heat. Disappointing, but nothing to have much emotion about... ... And now we have the Beta. The Beta received for preordering Destiny... huh. Bnet, did you know that at 0900 last Spring I waited outside of my Gamestop for it to open so I could preorder the game? I have little doubt I was the first person in the midwest to preorder it. I told the cashier I wanted to preorder this game. He said he never heard of it. I looked at my watch and told him it was a game that was going to be announced in around an hour or two, but since it's in their systems I wanted to preorder it. He looked it up and there it was. He claimed they didn't have the poster. So I walked back to my apartment- a 30 minute walk one way, by the way, and they called me back saying they did have them. So I walked back, got it, and back home again. All in all, it was around a 2 1/2 hour adventure... just because of how excited I was. I'm actually known at the store as the Destiny guy, now, because I answer questions for the guys working there about it and the likes. They recognize me, even. My friends make fun because of how I talk about the game, wear the shirt, etc. Where do I stand? I am a player that has played Bungie games for 12 years now. I have posted and been active on this website almost every day for the past 7 years, going on 8. I feel that overall I've been a good member, too. I wear merchandise of them- shirts and backpacks that say Bungie on them. I have super-awesome editions of their games. I stood outside the store for Destiny because I love Bungie. And... I'm only one person. One of many, and I'm sure I'm not the most hardcore fan of them, not by a longshot. But still... more than most. So I ask again... where do I stand? I'll tell you. Due to the fact that I have been with Bungie for 12 years; due to the fact that I followed them and got an Xbox 360 largely to stay with them because I felt the company valued its community as a whole; and due to the fact that I became so engrossed in this community that it became a part of my REAL life as well... I am told that I don't matter. People that have stuck through the darkness. People that have been with Bungie for years. People that have stayed as guinea pigs for this new Bnet even as it ruined what many of us saw as pillars of the community. People that remained after promised of return. This massive section of the community is being told that they are less important and that we should make room for the new baby coming into the family because mommy needs to pay special attention to a newborn. And worse... Bungie refuses to even address it. This is a turn from the early years. When Bungie moved from the computer to the Xbox, it was due to needing superior hardware and because Halo was no longer their property- they merely developed it. But Bungie is independent now. They chose to enter these deals with Activision and Sony. They chose to tell their most loyal fanbase that it needs to sit down and be quiet. And this goes against everything Bungie has stood for over the past decade.

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  • Edited by burritosenior: 11/15/2013 4:57:22 PM
    You will note that very, VERY few people are upset whatsoever at the prospect of future Destiny games not being on the Xbox 360 or PS3. Therefore the 'Mac users are the true fans that were abandoned, not you,' argument is asinine at best. People aren't upset at the progress of the game. If Bungie were developing only for the PS4 because it had superior hardware to the other consoles, then that would be a valid reason to prefer Playstation users. Yet instead, they are developing for them all. And while they develop for them all, they are shoving half of those users (although currently much more than half due to the 12 years of loyalty issue arising again) that they are less important that the new people coming in. You will note, valiant reader making it this far into the post, that these points tie in quite nicely with the beginning of these posts. You see, earlier I mentioned how Xbox users welcomed Playstation users into the community. Sharing is good, and the more people the merrier. Everybody should be able to enjoy these titles. The Bungie community did not ask for half its community to get something, before this. The Bungie community wanted everybody to get the whole experience. We were coming together. It was really a magnificent thing to behold. Yet now there are people proclaiming that Bungie is giving these exclusives because they need to get Sony folks to come into the community. To this I say… no. If the loyal Bungie community didn’t need exclusive content to become what we are, why do new people? Are the Playstation users of such low moral character that they won’t get involved in a game or community unless they get something that other people do not? I don’t think so. Advertise to Playstation users that they will get cool content for coming to Bungie.net, or by doing things with the game or their preorder. But the key factor here is… this doesn’t have to exclude the Xbox users. No, the Xbox users could get all these same things and Playstation users would still be attracted. So it isn’t why this is happening, unless one truly believes those buying PS4’s are actually terrible people- which I don’t think any rational person would believe. No. What this comes down to… is console purchasing. This is all happening because Sony wants people to buy their console. Microsoft does the same thing and it isn’t any better when they do it, true, but we’re talking of Bungie here so for now that is irrelevant. Sony is getting exclusives so people will have an incentive to purchase Playstation consoles rather than Xboxs. Is that necessarily a bad thing for Sony? No… but Bungie community here’s something I propose to you: Have you thought of what this means for Bungie? Think about it. If we have concluded that the exclusives are not simply for attracting fans from Sony, and we accept the hypothesis that this is due to console selling, then what exactly is Bungie focusing on by giving these things to Sony? Money. Money and publicity. That’s right. For a company that has had community focus as their prime directive for nearly a decade now, Bungie is showing that they are abandoning these principles in favor of publicity and funding. They are forsaking their community for these reasons, and have therefore left all of those that had faith in them in the dust. No matter your time spent believing in them, and no matter your loyalty in the past, you are being forgotten about. And this doesn’t just go for Xbox users, but Playstation users as well. These people should realize that they aren’t the focus either. It isn’t about them, but the console. Because Bungie is abandoning their community-centric approach… no, HAS abandoned it, we have little left to believe in. When Bungie.net was changed to this format, we were told it was easier for Bungie to sift through information and posts. Most people still dislike the format, and it limits conversations. This potentially shows how Bungie is focusing on themselves rather than the community- making it so they see what they want to see. Throughout the massive complaints, such as the ‘why PS4 users instead of XBone users,’ Bungie has ignored the posts. Loyalty is worth little now, and dedication has turned to ash. You can insult me, attack me, whatever. Have at me, community and Bungie. But I wrote this post not because I hate Bungie. I wrote this post with a soreness in my throat and tears welling up in my eyes because of how important Bungie and this community is to me. And I mean that absolutely- this community has been one of the most important and influential things in my life. This trend Bungie is on right now… it cannot continue. This is a horrible thing that is happening. We need it to stop. Please, Bungie. Don't have Peter Parsons on stage with a smile on his face while you forsake the people that care this much about you as a company and, to an extent, as individuals.

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    21 Replies
    • You just marked your own reply as the answer to your own question? That seems like some online version of masturbation or something.

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      • Beautiful.

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      • I wouldn't really care if this was Destiny 2, or some other developed franchise, but this is the first time any of the public (Outside of the lucky few who were able to get invited to a private Alpha.) will be able to set foot in Bungie's newest universe. Now the majority of the fanbase won't be able to participate in that "Initial Rush". It leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I don't even care about timed (Or even exclusive) DLC, but that first rush being taken away is just a low blow. I understand that it's for marketing and all the associated hoopla, but that doesn't take the sting away.

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        • You're just upset they still haven't made the rotating moustache an avatar option yet.

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          • Edited by Cobravert: 11/15/2013 5:41:26 PM
            Welcome to the harsh reality of the corporate world Burrito. I don't believe for a minute that the guys many of us have been around and have had the opportunity to get to know a little are any different now than they were in the past. They don't make the corporate decisions. But Bungie as a company isn't Bungie.net. It isn't the employees we have been able to know and occasionally get to game with. It seems that you have taken the company too personally. This is [url=http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/02/19/is-activisions-destiny-with-bungie/]Bungie.[/url]

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          • Edited by Commander Tempu: 11/15/2013 7:17:48 PM
            What i find is that Bungie feels bitter like its a Divorce after working on Halo. They did have Dev rights but gave them up for freedom. Microsoft wanted it all. Bungie had to find new partners. While i was over joyed to welcome new Bungie memeber's Bungie old is gone and now we those who have X-boxes are suppose to jump over to the PS4 due to Bungie likes it and is paying Bungie a butt load of money to promote it. We lost member's and community. They are killing the Community yet people sat through it or came back. Some just left for good tired of the antics. While i have been a good fan my self we have to think of Bungie as a Business. They are forgetting us and will be like other game developers if they do not turn the tide by welcoming the new and try to make people feel apart of the Community. All i see is trolls or people who want console wars or what ever to argue about. Just pay it forward yet no one is its a mess here on Bungie Next. All those promises of bunnies and rainbows. Well i been waiting a long time in the Darkness. I can tell you that i expected little to nothing. Magic of this site is fading. I agree ignoring everything is a waste. Bungie ignores it or remains silent on allot of things. They tell us stuff and more people leave due to there inaction or simply they have not captured the Magic yet for people to find reasons to push past the Halo issue. Its sad how they are appealing to a minority yet we have to look at facts. While Bungie makes great games the real question is are they eroding the principles that they were founded on ? All they did was switch partners and seemed to have lost sight of the Community. While they make and sell games its the Activision people who are calling the shots as well as Sony. It saddens me to know that Bungie has stooped to taking cheap shots at Microsoft despite the claims of cool relations. In fact no X-box content. Zero none. Its like being dead on the Dark Side of the moon yet i keep having faith. It is waning. Bungie needs to restore the Community. They really need to listen but i fear it will not happen. You cannot go back in time. Worst of all some Play Station gamer's feel superior with we get content first. Well good for you just do not be an ass about it. Heck i would like as a consumer and a fan to be listened to so often. Problem is while Bungie shows game content it is lacking in Community Focus. Deej kept it going but New B.Net is broken. Broken promises and we will get to things later. When are we going to see the Bells and Whistles ? When are they going to realize that this Model of B.Net is just not working and we hard core fans just want equal treatment is all. Bungie.Net used to be a Special place not like the other web sites now its just like them. Worst fear come true not to mention we X-box fans get silence. Well at this rate Bungie will loose even more fans. -Commander.

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          • I can understand a perceived slight. But isn't it a bit premature to assume you get nothing? You may not get everything but perhaps things will look better when you can see the whole picture.

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          • I'll admit that it's getting harder to remain hopeful about years of loyalty being worth anything. Even the smallest thing would be nice. Even just an acknowledgement. If they even mentioned Xbox without it being immediately succeeded or preceded by PlayStation, that would be nice. I stand by that I don't mind Sony fans getting a few goodies, it makes sense. I don't think it's greedy, however, to ask to be noticed.

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          • I feel sorry for you, burrito. I'd say, be patient. But, tbh, I could also say all good things come to an end.

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          • It's a video game. I'm definitely not as emotionally invested in the community as you are; I'm not even particularly stoked from Destiny from the stock-standard gameplay videos they've showed us; but Bungie's decision to release the beta early on the PS4 could be any one of a number of reasons; from developer issues with the Xbox, pressure from Activision, to financial incentives from Sony. Truthfully, does any of this even matter? It's a beta and a piddling announcement on the main page; nothing groundbreaking and in truth, a complete non-issue.

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            • I feel like I should get an achievement for reading that all... Honestly, I'm taking the wait and see approach. From what I can tell, everything the PS guys are getting is timed, meaning I'm going to play the same thing they are [i]eventually[/i]. Sure it still sucks, but it isn't [i]that[/i] bad. Not yet anyway. Not until [i]timed exclusives[/i] turn into [i]exclusives[/i]. As for the beta, it stings a little, but Bungie's betas usually last good while. There should be plenty of time to get full satisfaction from it. I'll just have to go dark for a bit before I can enjoy it. Now for the feeling of betrayal... maybe we Xbox guys could get some Halo-themed weapon/armor skins? Hmm? Come on, I'm sure Microsoft wouldn't complain.

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            • I thought it sucked and I was only here for 2 years.. I really don't know what to say, just hope that this doesn't continue after Destiny's release, or if not that then it's sequel.

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            • If you recall, there was that poll about being loyal to Bungie or their games... it's a ridiculous poll because when you are loyal to Bungie's games, you are loyal to Bungie. At the same time, what would one love about Bungie if it isn't about the games they made? Reverence towards the creation is thankfulness towards the creator, and to revere a creator as such is to take delight in what s/he creates. What a real poll should ask is: "Are you loyal to Bungie, or are you loyal to the XBOX?" Bungie doesn't make the XBOX; Bungie makes games for people to play on the platforms that THEY (or their masters, previously Microsoft and currently Activision accounted for) believe are important. Not [b]superior,[/b] mind you; I won't even [b]start[/b] with you on you perceptions there. The community members who believe that what makes them fans of Bungie is by having an XBOX and being loyal to XBOX have mistaken what is what. The correlation never mattered because you weren't special for having an XBOX, you were special for appreciating Bungie's work. I appreciated Bungie's work alongside you without the XBOX. We are old fans the both of us, but you think your chosen platform must now be favored over mine because Bungie has always made it for you? How long would you insist on this? Every other game they've made has been only for your platform up until this point. There must be a time to let go of your sense of entitlement, especially if we are going to dispute a mere week of time, versus the two years that "inferior platforms" had to wait to receive Halo back in the day (and then basically never get it again; which won't happen to the XB1). I would posit that what Bungie has promised you for your dedication has nothing to do with your platform. They know that their dedicated fans are probably making diverse sets of choices in how they want to play their new game... some of which don't involve an XBOX, for once. I will have the ultimate laugh when you find that you have exclusive inherited gear or something else that's special when you start the released form of Destiny for the first time in return for your tenure as a Bungie.netizen, regardless of the platform you were found on. After all, Bungie never told you what you were entitled to or when, right?

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            • The words that I just read. Are the words that my brain has been trying to piece together. But then you said it for me.

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            • When are you not complaining about something?

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            • I think that the betrayal people felt over this, is just a result of their own actions (not bungie's). You set yourself up when you created a preconceived notion of these loyalties. Bungie never promised you to provide exclusive content for any and every platform; that is the simple truth. You may feel that it should have been done, but that does not make it the righteous thing to do (especially when it wasn't promised). True tyranny comes when someone dictates another's actions; is that what you really want to do to Bungie? Dictate to them...? I say we should respect Bungie's free-will. In the end, this game is theirs to sell and give however they choose. Bungie earned that right when they created the game.

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            • It's unbelievable how much of a dickriding bungie bullshitter you are. They announced that the game would have H3 matchmaking before, not after, they decided to bump up the price to 60. On top of that, people were mad about having to completely pay for matchmaking again, regardless of whether they had all the prior DLC maps or not. So in essence everyone (all the hardcore/loyal fans) who had all the maps had to purchase the 3 maps for 10 bucks a pop. Let's not forget that bungie held the maps at ransom by saying ODST would be the only way to obtain the maps, only to release them later, and completely dicking their most loyal of fans. Long story short; you're an idiot and a fanboy and bungie doesn't give two -blam!-s about their fans. All facts.

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            • That is more reading than I have done at one time in a very long time. You do make some very good points in your post. I really do hope Bungie comes around to the way they used to be.

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            • [quote]Due to the fact that I have been with Bungie for 12 years; due to the fact that I followed them and got an Xbox 360 largely to stay with them because I felt the company valued its community as a whole; and due to the fact that I became so engrossed in this community that it became a part of my REAL life as well... I am told that I don't matter. [/quote] I totally back your passion for Destiny Burrito. And I understand the frustration some people are feeling over the favoritism BUNGiE has been issuing it's incoming PS players. But I think "I am told that I don't matter" is a bit of an overstatement. A week earlier into the Beta isn't something to cry "betrayal" over. We don't even know what the extent of the Beta content is going to be yet. We're still all getting the full release version on the same day. I agree with many of your points, even as someone who will be getting the "perks" of a PS4 user. I just don't know if we've yet hit this level of... well, whistle-blowing yet. I'd love to get some feedback from Deej or a higher-up to address these woes people a feeling. A good, solid message to the people. P.S. If I'm resurrecting a dead topic, head me off at the pass. I'm just here because it got bumped up on the "trending" category and caught my eye.

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            • Even though it's over a month old it's still true.

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            • TL/TR

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            • 0
              liked for length

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            • Nice read Sir Burrito. I haven't been active on the forums continuously as you have, but I can relate. Never missed a midnight release of any of the titles, one hour drive one way to nearest Gamestop (that's all we have as far as outlets here other than Walmart and an active volcano...) All my friends called me crazy, "Why can't you wait until the next day?" they said. Ha! Wait! Neverrrrr! Many of us have those stories and feelings, but as Bungie expands, things are changing as well. We have the memories :) Hopefully we'll be around to build new ones soon.

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            • Great post(s) Burrito. So I have a question - does one have to self-publish in order to retain control? At what point does cash trump community? Many athletes understand that professional sports are a business whereas many fans do not. Has video game development crossed over into the "business first" mentality instead of "for the love of the game?" JTS

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            • Watch the bungie staff come out and offer the old excuse "we wanted to give xbox fans the alpha and early beta but the legal monkeys said no!"

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