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3/14/2007 5:58:40 AM
232
The 7th Column, The Community, It's Guy, and The Lack There Of
[b]The 7th Column, The Community, It's Guy, and The Lack There Of[/b]
[i]Let me begin by saying what follows is not my rant, but as I agree with most of it I believe it should be posted. If I am wrong for this then I will recieve my just 'reward' but it must be said. I will not reveal the identity of said ranter for his own privacy reasons. Enjoy!
*note: This was written before the announcement of the new Bungie.net*[/i]
Part 1:
You asked for this. Here goes. :3
Let me commence by stating that the problem with the Bungie.net community is deep rooted. I don’t like to blame the web team with any scathing conviction because they have provided the site that, at least formerly, hosted a really good community. However, SketchFactor apparently gave up even before the “upgraded” column was implemented – he was after all the Community Guy whose responsibilities, theoretically, included the interaction with the good persons of the Seventh Column. I was never around too long before the change so I have no grounds on which to argue that he was ever actively involved, but the fact of that matter is that when I and some of my friends submitted our chapters for approval (as was the former custom), he accepted them. The spotlight, too, had been fairly frequently updated.
I understand that there are slightly higher concerns than a thriving community of well-mannered, Bungie-loving individuals – the professional needs for a sleek site with job offers and interaction with Halo 2, for example. It’d be ignorant in the extreme to pretend said necessities do not exist. But how many times have we been told that Bungie.net is not a business site – it’s a community site? The answer, should you wonder, is very often indeed.
I’ll be up front and admit that some of the things done with the site are amazing, not least the full integration of the various modules as one easy-to-navigate conglomeration. I’ve always liked the forums as they, in my opinion at least, look the part, and are so very easy to use. There’s no unnecessary formatting; you just hit reply or new topic, type what you want, and hit submit. Nothing could be simpler. Since I’d never used a forum before that time, it was the perfect way to get started.
Also engaging was the Seventh Column. An invite from a prominent founder via Private Message introduced me to it, and it was excellent: lots of databases and plenty of room for personalisation and creativity, plus scope for organising chapter-wide events. This little communities thrived as one and interacted with one another publicly, also, where great friendships were made and inter-chapter events established. In fact, that was the purpose of the 7th Column Community Page, which died at about the same time as the Spotlight and news.
Priorities seem to be wrong, also. I refuse to believe that a search feature – and repeat threads will surface, especially in the absence of constant new discussion material and in the presence of the ridiculous “don’t dig up old threads” regulation – is more crucial to a community site than the community itself. Surely resources would have been better spent on the 7th Column in one way or another.
And so many empty promises. Nobody expects miracles, but when fanfests, an updated column, more interaction from Bungie and a community that has official support are pledged, it’s saddening when they are not fulfilled, and more so when they simply fade away without even a “no, that’s not going to happen”. I wouldn’t will them all to attend massive fan gatherings, because, let’s face it, no other game developers do, but the fact that it’s happened before and future events were promised makes it that little bit worse. I’d much rather see a fantastic Halo 3 than direct community interaction, as I’m sure we all would, but surely the purpose of a site for the community and Bungie’s having of a community team is to interact with their fans? But Bungie is just the core, the very heart of a system composed of many more organs, blood, bones and flesh.
[Edited on 3/13/2007]
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That's it. That's it. I give up. This guy won't listen. I give up.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Hmm... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity to tell you recon, but [i]you[/i] werent involved in certain discussions between moderators and members. I also hate to tell you, but word spreads quickly, especially when PMs are sent to users containing parts of this discussion. Private discussions.... like all of the moderators agreeing not to lock the skulls thread, letting users back in as long as they dont reference their other accounts, etc. you dont mean anything like those private discussions, or that I have been messaged with private info, ask achronos on this one, as I wont post it because it would be really wrong to do so.[/quote] I don't think you are talking about the correct thing here. We were talking about Toast, right? In which case, no Recon is correct, you are not. Those discussions and such that you linked were the very last step, and you missed a lot of the beginning part. So, I suggest you stop talking about it... because it is none of your business and tainting your comments with half truths and some outright lies about that situation to not help your credibility.[/quote] So you guys were just talking to him while he was doing these things? Inactive regulation much? [quote] [quote]Do you not realize the contradiction in this post? Noise, disruption, but no attention was given? That makes perfect sense to me. Which is why the forum posted was spammed by moderators of this site? Your right, it had no effect. If it was taking its course, why did it take over 1 year, yet he was removed less than two weeks after the posting of the goatse man thread?[/quote] You are associating the wrong cause with an effect and omitting a huge part of the backstory. Context is key.[/quote] So please inform us as to what you guys were actually doing before the threads started being posted. Just talking like you said above? Well, that is definatly a strong effect there, and I am sure that the posting of threads and gathering of community support for his removal had nothing to do with it. After all there was no "flaunting of authority" there huh? Now, who seems to be posting half truths? If there was no effect, how would there be any member authority? I think that point is pretty well obvious. [quote] [quote] I hate to tell you, but if you take a look in that group I posted, quite a few people agreed with the points presented, and actually got quite involved in refining them. Not to mention PMs sent on this site of moderators proclaiming their support of the removal of toast. [/quote] Um... the difference being the moderators weren't also engaged in making up or exaggerating stories about his conduct (which did happen, and not just to Toast). Sounds like the moderators were being professional about it, and you are simply assuming things from a limited vantage point. I don't see you having access to everybody's PMs and groups... oh wait, that'd be me.[/quote] And you definatly check everyones [b]private[/b] messages huh? You are so right on that one, I cant believe I said ethics were in question here. After all, looking in on people's "private" messages is completly ethical. Also, did you see how it was an invisionfree board? I dont think you have those abilities there. Check things out man, look at the posts in that group, the vast majority of people there were doing one of two things. 1. Actively participating in discussions or 2. making hypocrites of themselves by spamming. [quote] [quote]There is a difference between you and me recon, you are speaking for the authority, and bias your opinions as to not acknowledge anything but the "leaderships" good features, while I post the good and the bad.[/quote] No, the difference between him and you is that he is a consummate professional, one of the best moderators on any site anywhere, and you are someone who posts the good and the bad without really understanding any of the facts behind things.[/quote]Well, by posting the good and the bad I am atleast presenting things as I see them and as appear truthful to me, I dont edit my statements, post half truths, etc, especially not with other motives, which you say yourself is the case with recon by making distinctions between us in that respect. As for the professional part, didnt he just attack a user excessively because something was sensitive to him? Letting your personal feelings effect your statements is anything but professional. [quote] [quote]Now, the greatest point in all of this is that recon insists that they were already investigating the matter. So, there are a few possible conclusions which could be reached. 1. They were investigating the matter and didnt find all of the things that were easily found by others. 2. They did know of toasts wrong doings and allowed someone clearly in the wrong to retain their powers and act with them freely 3. They werent investigating at all and this is yet another case of the truth being less than prevalent [/quote] 1. Or we found multiple evidence that was fabricated (that happened a whole bunch). 2. This didn't happen. 3. "Another case?" Hmm... sounds like someone who was banned earlier is on an alt...[/quote] So those werent his posts telling users to delete their system 32 files? That wasnt him asking a 15 year old girl for nude photos, that wasnt him destroying L9? Comon now Mr. I see in your groups, do some real research. Also, what parts of that list were fabricated since you can check it all. [quote] [quote]So, were you incompetent, lying, or did you allow someone clearly in the wrong to continue his wrong doings?[/quote] Or you are misinformed? Perhaps you are the one making illogical assumptions, then?[/quote] Once again, tell us what on that list was false so we can all be shown the light [quote] [quote]It is clear to me that atleast in part, your post was an attempt to reinforce the control of this site, you seem to have it in your mind that someone is trying to take your baby. The fact is that nobody wants it, so actions to prevent it are not needed, much less desireable or anything but a general annoyance and waste of time.[/quote] What the hell? What are you talking about? It isn't his site. It is Bungie's site. Stop trying to obfuscate the point.[/quote] Dont twist words. I didnt say it was his site, nor did I say it was his control on the site. I said "[b][i][u]the[/b][/i][/u] control" as for the baby part, I didnt say this site was his baby I was comparing his reaction to a mother defending her child.
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Doing so would involve a large and complicated backstory going back to before Toast was a moderator (and it didn't even involve him at the time). In the interests of brevity, let's just say that there were (and continue to be) more than a few people who make it their personal mission to get certain moderators removed - truth be damned. Unfortunately for those trying to report Toast's initial minor offenses (not worthy of dismissal, but worthy of notice), those people had already targeted Toast with many falsefied claims (as they had Shishka before him). As you might imagine, this made the issue way more complicated than you're making it out to be. Also, nobody but myself and a few others (mostly those inside Bungie... funny that people think we don't pay attention) knew about this problem... so suggesting you know the full story because you have scraps of information filled with half-truths and outright lies is not appropriate. For the purposes of this discussion, Toast resigned due to a conflict of interest between his group activities and his moderator duties. Nobody here has enough information to talk about it otherwise, and I suggest you stop doing so. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity Now tom... did I ever say I was without fault? I overreact, like to get into it with others, am too stubborn, but I am willing to admit this to anyone who asks. But the one thing that I am not is a brown noser, so while I am not without fault in general, my nose is pretty dman clean. We both know that I am ANYTHING but a brown noser, for you to even think that would be you forgetting quite a bit of things. If anything, I speak my mind too much for my own good. What was wrong with my description of the removal of toast? Please point it out and tell us all what you guys were doing about the situation before any of those posts sprung up. If I remember correctly, the most accurate term is "nothing."[/quote]
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You know, if I could scrape all of Achronos' text in this thread from my computer screen, I would have myself at least two bars of gold. [i]Is this gold real?! ...-blam!-, it's heavy![/i]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos obfuscate [/quote] I just learned a new word! [quote]it started with Shishka. [/quote] Dang it. frickin. curiosity.....agh!
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Actually, he's using humor because he's letting slide the fact that you've pretty much admitted to being on an alt, which is a bannable offense. So, I suggest you stop mocking people who are giving you the benefit of the doubt here even though it is somewhat obvious that you are being a huge hypocrite by simply having this account. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity Yes TGP, the good old, no point, so I will attempt humor. If I wasnt involved in conversations, why was I able to so easily list some of the topics found in some of the threads in HFCS?[/quote]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos ... Let he who has no faults throw the first stone... [/quote] Referencing religion is illegal on the main forums, FYI O.o ~B.B.
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Hmm... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity to tell you recon, but [i]you[/i] werent involved in certain discussions between moderators and members. I also hate to tell you, but word spreads quickly, especially when PMs are sent to users containing parts of this discussion. Private discussions.... like all of the moderators agreeing not to lock the skulls thread, letting users back in as long as they dont reference their other accounts, etc. you dont mean anything like those private discussions, or that I have been messaged with private info, ask achronos on this one, as I wont post it because it would be really wrong to do so.[/quote] I don't think you are talking about the correct thing here. We were talking about Toast, right? In which case, no Recon is correct, you are not. Those discussions and such that you linked were the very last step, and you missed a lot of the beginning part. So, I suggest you stop talking about it... because it is none of your business and tainting your comments with half truths and some outright lies about that situation to not help your credibility. [quote]Do you not realize the contradiction in this post? Noise, disruption, but no attention was given? That makes perfect sense to me. Which is why the forum posted was spammed by moderators of this site? Your right, it had no effect. If it was taking its course, why did it take over 1 year, yet he was removed less than two weeks after the posting of the goatse man thread?[/quote] You are associating the wrong cause with an effect and omitting a huge part of the backstory. Context is key. [quote] I hate to tell you, but if you take a look in that group I posted, quite a few people agreed with the points presented, and actually got quite involved in refining them. Not to mention PMs sent on this site of moderators proclaiming their support of the removal of toast. [/quote] Um... the difference being the moderators weren't also engaged in making up or exaggerating stories about his conduct (which did happen, and not just to Toast). Sounds like the moderators were being professional about it, and you are simply assuming things from a limited vantage point. I don't see you having access to everybody's PMs and groups... oh wait, that'd be me. [quote]There is a difference between you and me recon, you are speaking for the authority, and bias your opinions as to not acknowledge anything but the "leaderships" good features, while I post the good and the bad.[/quote] No, the difference between him and you is that he is a consummate professional, one of the best moderators on any site anywhere, and you are someone who posts the good and the bad without really understanding any of the facts behind things. [quote]Now, the greatest point in all of this is that recon insists that they were already investigating the matter. So, there are a few possible conclusions which could be reached. 1. They were investigating the matter and didnt find all of the things that were easily found by others. 2. They did know of toasts wrong doings and allowed someone clearly in the wrong to retain their powers and act with them freely 3. They werent investigating at all and this is yet another case of the truth being less than prevalent [/quote] 1. Or we found multiple evidence that was fabricated (that happened a whole bunch). 2. This didn't happen. 3. "Another case?" Hmm... sounds like someone who was banned earlier is on an alt... [quote]So, were you incompetent, lying, or did you allow someone clearly in the wrong to continue his wrong doings?[/quote] Or you are misinformed? Perhaps you are the one making illogical assumptions, then? [quote]It is clear to me that atleast in part, your post was an attempt to reinforce the control of this site, you seem to have it in your mind that someone is trying to take your baby. The fact is that nobody wants it, so actions to prevent it are not needed, much less desireable or anything but a general annoyance and waste of time.[/quote] What the hell? What are you talking about? It isn't his site. It is Bungie's site. Stop trying to obfuscate the point. [quote]Please, stop trying to attack my character, which seems to have been the goal of you mentioning the word "ego" like a trained parrot. If I really wanted to inflate myself I would, but I am not trying to do that, so dont question it. Stick to the points, I didnt attack you, so dont attack me. [/quote] Yes, you did. Specifically, you suggested that both myself and the other moderators are either liars or incompetent, both of which are serious personal attacks. And especially coming from someone without much in the way of real facts and just armed with half-truths and some bald-faces lies... well, let's just say that you started it. [quote] [b]On the selection of moderators[/b] It is clear, that contrary to the statements made by others, the selection of moderators [i]IS[/i] based on their [i]PERSONAL[/i] standings with the other moderators. It is really similar to the andrew jackson "spoils of war" system where moderators put in a good word for their friends, even if they arent the best person for the job. If you check the past history of chosen moderators, you will see that they play with the moderator "click" and are in the same groups as other moderators. Now, there are a few exceptions to this, I wont deny that, but the general trend is friends of moderators become moderators before anyone else. That is simply how it works. [/quote] As the other moderators are only allowed to nominate other mods, not actually pick them (that's my job), you are only demonstrating your lack of knowledge again. All you have simply said is that the moderators nominate people they know. Would you rather them nominate people they don't know? I'm sorry, but that's such a stupid complaint. And it doesn't matter because I'm the one making the final call anyway. [quote]EDIT: As for your terrorist comments, you should really learn what is going on before you post. If I wanted to cause problems I wouldve done it last night, or earlier in the week. I am not going to go into specifics, but I got some things sent to me that I couldve really been an ass with. Ask achronos on that one, I actually PMed him with the information to give him a heads up so he would be able to better deal with the issue. Like I said, i wont post the direct information, if you dont know about it, you can PM him on the issue.[/quote] And as I told you, such information is common knowledge (google me). I've been using the Internet since before Mosaic existed; nothing about me is on the Internet that would surprise me. I'm not some fool who thinks he's anonymous on the Internet. Besides, you know damn well that he was using the word "terrorist" to describe the type of things people were doing to get Toast removed. If a bunch of the reasons given weren't lies and half-truths, then they'd be called activists. Don't assume you know more about the history of things here than I do. The thing with Toast has a far earlier history than you think and didn't even start with him - it started with Shishka.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kilroy Once again dude. The discussion. Is. Over. Arguing about how "horrible" a person was is futile. You have your opinion, i have mine, recon has his, everyone else has theirs. We know what yours is. Got it. End of discussion. Stop trying to "defend" yourself from these "attacks."[/quote] OK man, its your thread, I will drop the whole thing, but I cannot speak for everyone, and if people make attacks against me, defending myself is a reasonable response.
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Once again dude. The discussion. Is. Over. Arguing about how "horrible" a person was is futile. You have your opinion, i have mine, recon has his, everyone else has theirs. We know what yours is. Got it. End of discussion. Stop trying to "defend" yourself from these "attacks."
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Great_Pretender What, so I guess you were in [i]every[/i] conversation between moderators and members? Yes, of course you were. My point is, it's not really nice and/or correct to dismiss someone from the discussion because they weren't in the same conversations as you were. -TGP-[/quote] I appoligize for responding in such an agressive manner I was a bit off from responding to recon. However, it isnt an excuse for my actions. I was simply making the point that while he might think otherwise, I am actually pretty informed on most things. [Edited on 3/15/2007]
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Now tom... did I ever say I was without fault? I overreact, like to get into it with others, am too stubborn, but I am willing to admit this to anyone who asks. But the one thing that I am not is a brown noser, so while I am not without fault in general, my nose is pretty dman clean. We both know that I am ANYTHING but a brown noser, for you to even think that would be you forgetting quite a bit of things. If anything, I speak my mind too much for my own good. What was wrong with my description of the removal of toast? Please point it out and tell us all what you guys were doing about the situation before any of those posts sprung up. If I remember correctly, the most accurate term is "nothing." [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos You are not in a position to be saying such things given your attempt at describing the situation with Toast yet being so completely wrong about it. Let he who has no faults throw the first stone... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity All of you guys are right... nobody brown noses at all on here.[/quote][/quote] [Edited on 3/15/2007]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 I don't discuss the discipline of any member publicly (at least not using their name or other identifiable method). You see, not only do I consider it to be rude, crass, unprofessional and completely uncalled for, I would be violating my membership agreement in doing so. [quote]The Bungie Web Sites and the services provided therein are not to be used to transmit any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable content, as determined by any Bungie Web Sites employee, designee or admin. This includes material which a user may find embarrassing or which may cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort to them.[/quote] Now, I cannot help it if I unintentionally draw unwanted attention to someone. But I certainly can (and will) avoid doing it willfully. Member, former member, moderator, former moderator... they all deserve that much respect.[/quote] You act like I was the person who brought it up. I understand what you mean, but the actions of moderators effect the entire community. Part of being a moderator is being placed under scrutiny, and while he is no longer a moderator, he still was for a while, and his actions during that time were less than desireable. I simply clarified a point brought up by others, I attempted to do so in an unbiased manner, but unfortunatly my comments didnt present the user in the most positive light. [quote] Certain things are not (to me) fit for public discussion. The response that I gave was due to my distaste for the fact that others are not bothered by such displays. And yet they can pose "ethical" questions about the ninja teams practices. Ethics? Truth? Yeah right. [/quote]Allowing a user to have his way with the community, then attempt to play down his actions? There is nothing misleading, unethical, or untruthful there at all.[/sarcasm] [quote] Allow me to demonstrate how to talk about someone without everyone knowing who you are referring to. I remember chatting with a permabanned member (via PM) about their ban dodging and how they reconciled that activity with their obvious portrayal of themselves as moral by advertising their membership in various religious group. Once I heard that load of spin, rationalization and inability to self-question, I realized that this individual was not moral, was not ethical because they never EVER questioned their own motivations or actions. That is the zealous and (I will say it again) ego-driven, selfish, and terrorist tactics of those who would disrupt the forums (or any social gathering) and "break rules in order to get (their idea of) justice". Such individuals will use "truth" and "values" and "beliefs" only when it suits them, elevates them, and furthers their goals.[/quote] So what effect does this have, if not to attempt to inflame, attack, or harass a member? [quote] See? I didn't name anyone... and yet I think that the person who I was speaking of (if they are reading) knows [i]exactly[/i] what I am talking about. Call me a hypocrite, and I can say that you might have a point. I call that person one, and they will deny it to their dying breath. Who would be closer to the truth?[/quote] Once again, personal attacks? Now, what is wrong with using truth and values? Prehaps that is something that this forum is lacking. ALL people are hypocrites, it is just a matter of what extent. You seem to like attacking others. I think this might the credit for this type of behavior might be due to your own personal faults. You clearly attack others, then attempt to talk down on people who do the same thing, yet you admit that they had the goal of justice. It would seem to me that you are doing the same thing, except with only the goal of furthering yourself in a debate and promoting negativity. If his were the case, all of this bit "Such individuals will use "truth" and "values" and "beliefs" only when it suits them, elevates them, and furthers their goals." is clearly applicable to yourself. Why dont you post the PMs that were exchanged so we can see these terrible messages.
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You are not in a position to be saying such things given your attempt at describing the situation with Toast yet being so completely wrong about it. Let he who has no faults throw the first stone... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity All of you guys are right... nobody brown noses at all on here.[/quote]
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I should point out that i personally love this community, its the best on the net as far as im concerned. Of course with any community you will have issues, the problem comes when people start placing blame on others for what they think are issues. I come here for the environment, amoungst all of the repeat threads are some good discussions. [Edited on 3/15/2007]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity Yes TGP, the good old, no point, so I will attempt humor. If I wasnt involved in conversations, why was I able to so easily list some of the topics found in some of the threads in HFCS? This quote right here... [quote]like all of the moderators agreeing not to lock the skulls thread, letting users back in as long as they dont reference their other accounts, etc. [/quote] You are absolutly right, I dont talk with anyone at all, I just get these topics from my ESP by "feeling" for a group that I am not in. I am glad that you caught me... being a psychic is far more likely than me having conversations that recon wouldnt be involved in, or knowledgeable about. Damn, how did I not see that?[/quote] What, so I guess you were in [i]every[/i] conversation between moderators and members? Yes, of course you were. My point is, it's not really nice and/or correct to dismiss someone from the discussion because they weren't in the same conversations as you were. -TGP-
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I don't discuss the discipline of any member publicly (at least not using their name or other identifiable method). You see, not only do I consider it to be rude, crass, unprofessional and completely uncalled for, I would be violating my membership agreement in doing so. [quote]The Bungie Web Sites and the services provided therein are not to be used to transmit any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable content, as determined by any Bungie Web Sites employee, designee or admin. This includes material which a user may find embarrassing or which may cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort to them.[/quote] Now, I cannot help it if I unintentionally draw unwanted attention to someone. But I certainly can (and will) avoid doing it willfully. Member, former member, moderator, former moderator... they all deserve that much respect. Certain things are not (to me) fit for public discussion. The response that I gave was due to my distaste for the fact that others are not bothered by such displays. And yet they can pose "ethical" questions about the ninja teams practices. Ethics? Truth? Yeah right. Allow me to demonstrate how to talk about someone without everyone knowing who you are referring to. I remember chatting with a permabanned member (via PM) about their ban dodging and how they reconciled that activity with their obvious portrayal of themselves as moral by advertising their membership in various religious group. Once I heard that load of spin, rationalization and inability to self-question, I realized that this individual was not moral, was not ethical because they never EVER questioned their own motivations or actions. That is the zealous and (I will say it again) ego-driven, selfish, and terrorist tactics of those who would disrupt the forums (or any social gathering) and "break rules in order to get (their idea of) justice". Such individuals will use "truth" and "values" and "beliefs" only when it suits them, elevates them, and furthers their goals. See? I didn't name anyone... and yet I think that the person who I was speaking of (if they are reading) knows [i]exactly[/i] what I am talking about. Call me a hypocrite, and I can say that you might have a point. I call that person one, and they will deny it to their dying breath. Who would be closer to the truth?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gendo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kilroy Deaths Divinity. Dude. The Toast issue was settled. You didn't have to bring it up again. Recon "attacked" you because you brought up a sensitive subject unnecessarily and put it under the most negative light possible. It. Was. Not. Necessary. [/quote] you are acting like he went about raping people's mothers. Its fine for discussion, as long as it is mature imho.[/quote] To kilroy, that was actually NOT the most negative light possible, I was actually pretty kind in what I said. If we were allowed to attack others over anything that was sensitive to us these forums would go to hell, and I dont think that it is an excuse at all. To Gendo, that is my point exactly, thanks for clarifying things and understanding where I was coming from. It is greatly appreciated.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] twinkiemaker Wait, I thought you gave up on this thread? [/quote] No-one will play gears with me :(
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gendo you are acting like he went about raping people's mothers. Its fine for discussion, as long as it is mature imho.[/quote] I agree that a good, [b]mature[/b] discussion on raping mothers is a good way to pass the afternoon so long as it stays discussion. The actual act is never good, regardless of how maturely its done. Wait, I thought you gave up on this thread? [Edited on 3/15/2007]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kilroy Deaths Divinity. Dude. The Toast issue was settled. You didn't have to bring it up again. Recon "attacked" you because you brought up a sensitive subject unnecessarily and put it under the most negative light possible. It. Was. Not. Necessary. [/quote] you are acting like he went about raping people's mothers. Its fine for discussion, as long as it is mature imho.
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Deaths Divinity. Dude. The Toast issue was settled. You didn't have to bring it up again. Recon "attacked" you because you brought up a sensitive subject unnecessarily and put it under the most negative light possible. It. Was. Not. Necessary.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] scruss The golden rule is in play here, If you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all" [/quote] I thought the golden rule was "treat others as you want to be treated?" I like the rough stuff, so we're good there.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] muffin man one I <3 Toast. I used to dedicate my sig to him and we would have deep conversations on msn, but he has stopped using the interwewbs lately... *sigh*[/quote] Id assume his mother wont let him on anymore. Id assume she'd be pretty pissed after finding out about his latest internet adventure.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] scruss The golden rule is in play here, If you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all" [/quote] Yeah! Hey, wait a minute, that's not the golden rule!
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[quote]The VII Toast affair springs to mind. He seemed a nice enough fellow – until he was elected a moderator, at which point reality surfaced and he was revealed for the savage power freak he truly is. The problem is, the community and its pleas for action against his transgressions were ignored, and it took until the senior ninjas started to take notice for him to be brought to justice. This process took well over a year, and he had already wrought considerably havoc upon the site, deleting posts, thoroughly deceiving users and banning others for no reason.[/quote] How can you say that about my love? I <3 Toast. I used to dedicate my sig to him and we would have deep conversations on msn, but he has stopped using the interwewbs lately... *sigh*
