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Gravy Mind

Gravy Mind

1/6/2013 8:39:11 PM
ok, I'm going to put the tl;dr at the beginning: Halo Reach is more fun if you're good at Halo. Halo 4 is more fun if you are bad at/new to Halo. What's more, Bungie and 343i know this and they meant this to be the case. Bungie wanted a Swan song to veteran fans, 343i wanted to expand the fanbase. So on with the evidence: [b]multiplayer[/b] First I will address guns and kill times. In Halo Reach all the core guns (AR, pistol, DMR and NR) have significant bloom which you need to adapt to at different ranges. The AR and pistol also have small clips compared to the number of bullets needed for a kill. The weapons also kill relatively slowly meaning that you need to focus and aim for a longer period of time for each kill. These problems make these guns inherently difficult to use. (with the excpetion of the AR being relatively easy to use in CQC). Halo 4's spawn weapons (with the exception of the pistol) are much easier to use. None of them have significant bloom (burst firing with the automatic weapons is ineffective so they might as well not have bloom) and all have very large clips. One of them, the blotshot, also only requires only one shot to kill, which is very easy to land. This greatly simplifies CQC combat. Then we get to the power weapons. In Halo reach these were rarely instakill, but instead required very good aiming (concussion rifle and focus rifle) or complex tactics (plasma launcher). In Halo 4 nearly all the power weapons (and the boltshot) are instakill. In fact over half the weapons in the game kill with one shot! There are easier versions of previous power weapons as well. -binary rifle is like a sniper were you only need to body shot -incineration cannon is like a rocket launcher that you don't have to hit as close with -scattershot is like a shotgun that you can quickly fire again with in case you miss. Furthermore instead of having to control parts of the map to gain powerweapons (like in Reach and all previous Halo Games), powerweapons are awarded passively as ordnance, for just playing the game. Ok, that's all I have space for on guns so I'm going to move onto armour abilities. Reach had armour lock which completely screwed up noob games, because it was easy to use, but difficult to counter. At a proper level an armourlocker who just stayed in armourlock would just look silly because his team would be dead and his opponents would be surrounding him ready to kill him. Halo 4 has no such armour abilities which ruin noob games, but has a few which cause serious problems in competitive play. For example promethean vision, removes any notion of stealth. Trying to sneak up on that guy while crouching? Well he can see you through the wall. Halo 4 also got rid of stealth in other ways such as giving the flag carrier a marker. Now going an unexpected, stealthy route with the flag is pointless and you should always just take it the fastest route. However it is now easier for noobs to locate their missing flag. [b]Campaign[/b] In Halo Reach you needed to approach each situation strategically and make sure you had weapons which could kill the specific enemies you were fighting. There was no point in trying to outshoot and ultra with an assault rifle. You also needed to watch your radar as enemies such as skirmishers would flank you. tbh in Halo 4 I hardly died on my first run through of the game, which was on legendary. In fact I die more on a regular legendary run through of CE which I've played countless times before. Halo 4 was really, really easy. Unlike Reach the AI was no aggresive, it would not follow you round corners when you retreated, but would rather sit back and wait for you to have another go. Occasionally a knight might teletport to you, miss a melee and then teleport away again, but that's about as aggressive as they got. It is also possible to kill anything with any weapon. I'd happily solo a knight battlewagon (the glowy ones with incineration cannons) with a magnum. Now Halo 4's story was good and it's enocunter were interesting and smooth, but they were nevertheless a lot more noob friendly and less exciting than Reach's. [b]Graphics[/b] Ok you're asking me "how can graphics be noob friendly" and I'm giving you an answer. Halo 4 sacrifices, graphical detail and number of in game objects to make everything really, really shiny. This makes new players go "wow it's shiny the graphics are sooooo good" and has a similar affect on reviewers, but it was definitely not worth very short weapon despawn times to have the broken pieces of phantomb look like they've been polished by a really keen grunt. The lack of graphical detail compared to Reach makes people who go slowly and admire the scenery of the campaign levels suffer in favour of those who just notice the graphics in the background. The short weapon despawn times are horrible for competitive play. I have killed someone with a powerweapon, only to have it despawn before I reach their corpse! [b]forge/custom games[/b] Forge has been given a graphical update to cater to those who were more interested in playing maps with graphical variety rather than maps with good design (the "why are all the maps made on forgeworld!" people). Gametypes have also been streamlined so that noobs are not confused and turned away by playing complicated gametypes in matchmaking. However this greatly decreases the options available to those designing custom games. Very few of the great party games I played in Reach can be remade in Halo 4, because they relies on stockpile, assault, headhunter, invasion or actionsack gametypes. [b]That's it I think, if you want a conclusion you can reread the tl;dr at the beginning.[/b]

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  • ZealotSG

    ZealotSG

    1/11/2013 1:14:40 AM Permalink
    [quote]Campaign In Halo Reach you needed to approach each situation strategically and make sure you had weapons which could kill the specific enemies you were fighting. There was no point in trying to outshoot and ultra with an assault rifle. You also needed to watch your radar as enemies such as skirmishers would flank you. tbh in Halo 4 I hardly died on my first run through of the game, which was on legendary. In fact I die more on a regular legendary run through of CE which I've played countless times before. Halo 4 was really, really easy. Unlike Reach the AI was no aggresive, it would not follow you round corners when you retreated, but would rather sit back and wait for you to have another go. Occasionally a knight might teletport to you, miss a melee and then teleport away again, but that's about as aggressive as they got. It is also possible to kill anything with any weapon. I'd happily solo a knight battlewagon (the glowy ones with incineration cannons) with a magnum. Now Halo 4's story was good and it's eno-blam!-er were interesting and smooth, but they were nevertheless a lot more noob friendly and less exciting than Reach's.[/quote]lol all I need in Reach was the needle rifle and a hologram. But I do think the higher-up Elites actually had a purpose. Generals were used sparingly and spawned with varying weapons so I didn't automatically associate Generals with fuel rod guns like I do in Halo 4. Ultras on the other hand, I frequently associated the concussion rifle with them. But even then, they weren't just there for difficulty. They were there because they were awesome. I find Halo 4's Thunderstorm skull underwhelming despite it increasing the likelihood of fuel rod guns spawning at the start of Requiem. How do you stand the bullshit?! I die frequently in Halo 4 but rarely die in CE. The AI was not aggressive, yeah I guess that's true for the Prometheans. But the Elites rush a lot more. Knight Lancers are among the easiest to fight in close-medium range. That's one good thing about H4. It's what made CE so great (and it is great). *Knight Commander And I'd rather not. Interesting... encounters? Um... far from it. The Hunters spawn placement is solely for difficulty. I could do tons of things with the trilogy Hunters: amass Hunters, lure them into cutscenes, take them up elevators with me, have them fight different enemies than usual
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  • Newt

    Newt

    1/6/2013 9:14:48 PM Permalink
    Well Pre-TU Reach was pure terrible, and I would say worse than Halo 4s multiplayer. TU Reach was tolerable I guess, and leagues above Halo 4's current state. [Edited on 01.06.2013 1:15 PM PST]
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    1 Reply
    • Gravy Mind

      Gravy Mind

      1/8/2013 1:37:56 PM Permalink
      [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nesteggfailure [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] redstorm205 If you make a shorter version I would gladly read it[/quote] Likewise.[/quote] Reach is difficult to play because the guns have bloom and small clips and the AI is aggressive and the enemies have more health and variety. Thus seasoned players looking for more of a challenge like it more than Halo 4. Halo 4 is easy to play because kill times are short, the guns have little no bloom and large clips. Map control is also unnecessary on account of ordinance. Thus new or less adept players prefer Halo 4.
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    • Gravy Mind

      Gravy Mind

      1/8/2013 1:31:52 PM Permalink
      [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JunkyMonkey [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GalaxySpider Halo 4 does it right. Legendary is challenging and fun at the same time because you actually can use your own play style and weapons YOU want. Binary Rifle is OK. It's a body shot insta-kill. So what? You can fire that thing like 4 times standard, with a reload after 2 shots. You can do muuuch more kills with the regular human sniper if every hit is a headshot, which isn't that hard. So we have 4 possible Binary kills versus, um, 12 (or more with ammo perk) human sniper kills or so?... Binary also is visible via red laser. So people only think it's OP where actually the human snipe still is the most OP sniper in the whole series. [/quote] You are right, in some instances. Halo 4's Legendary campaign, I do not like it. Halo 3's, no, [i]any[/i] previous Halo game's Legendary campaign is much better than it. Also, just to put this out there, I suck with sniper rifles, period.[/quote] I'm in pretty much the same position I loved the campaigns of Halo 1,2, ODST and Reach, but 3 and 4 weren't so great. I'm also no good with the sniper rifle. I can pull off a few no scopes once in a while, but I can't do the long range stuff. [Edited on 01.08.2013 5:32 AM PST]
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    • Gravy Mind

      Gravy Mind

      1/8/2013 1:30:21 PM Permalink
      [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oh GodLike One [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xalrons4410 Bungie wanted a Swan song to veteran fans, 343i wanted to expand the fanbase.[/quote] But that was Halo 3 ... bungie wanted out after that but were forced under contract to complete reach.[/quote] Bungie meant to make 2 Halo games. Halo 2 was meant to contain the whole of Halo 3 and more and have large scale open campaign maps with multiple paths. Unfortunately this was 2003... So half of Halo 2 was finished, but unpolished in time for the release date. Hence Bungie had to make Halo 3. This is why Halo 2 and 3 are the only Halos that are actually similar to each other. For Reach, whether they were required to make it or not. Bungie tried to do something different again (like the evolution from Halo 1 to Halo 2), but this time specifically for the veteran fans which they had accumulated over the 9 years of Halo.
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    • Oh GodLike One

      Oh GodLike One

      1/8/2013 12:42:29 PM Permalink
      [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xalrons4410 Bungie wanted a Swan song to veteran fans, 343i wanted to expand the fanbase.[/quote] But that was Halo 3 ... bungie wanted out after that but were forced under contract to complete reach.
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    • IRISH

      IRISH

      1/8/2013 4:22:20 AM Permalink
      Sometimes I wonder if kids write papers for their Eng. Lit class and then post the results on B.net.
    • nesteggfailure

      nesteggfailure

      1/8/2013 3:45:29 AM Permalink
      [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] redstorm205 If you make a shorter version I would gladly read it[/quote] Likewise.
    • Trollface

      Trollface

      1/8/2013 12:36:12 AM Permalink
      [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GalaxySpider Halo 4 does it right. Legendary is challenging and fun at the same time because you actually can use your own play style and weapons YOU want. Binary Rifle is OK. It's a body shot insta-kill. So what? You can fire that thing like 4 times standard, with a reload after 2 shots. You can do muuuch more kills with the regular human sniper if every hit is a headshot, which isn't that hard. So we have 4 possible Binary kills versus, um, 12 (or more with ammo perk) human sniper kills or so?... Binary also is visible via red laser. So people only think it's OP where actually the human snipe still is the most OP sniper in the whole series. [/quote] You are right, in some instances. Halo 4's Legendary campaign, I do not like it. Halo 3's, no, [i]any[/i] previous Halo game's Legendary campaign is much better than it. Also, just to put this out there, I suck with sniper rifles, period.
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    • TH3_AV3NG3R

      TH3_AV3NG3R

      1/7/2013 10:54:09 PM Permalink
      [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cheeseoid Sorry to disappoint you OP, but you don't put out a fire by pouring petrol on it. OT 4>Reach because Campaign. It actually had character development, and not all the characters made me want to hate them. The only one who is properly annoying is Del Rio, Not many people would be hating on Palmer if they didn't have her in Spartan Ops or at least given her better dialogue. The large human presence in the middle of the campaign sort of spoiled it but the first four missions were outstanding. I didn't get any feel of an invasion in Reach until four/five missions into the game.[/quote] DUr hurr everyone played the campaign because story and character development. Nope. I played it because I liked the gameplay, the ai, and no QTEs. How can you even defend that boss fight? Lol way to make the game more mainstream. Good job 343 hats off to you. Reach campaign>Halo 4's just because it didn't have lolQTEs. There is a reason why I think Halo CE is the greatest. [quote]The multiplayer is piss poor in both so I'm not even going to bother to go into detail about everything in both. They both had bad maps (Too colourful in 4 and for Reach, dat grey) and the primary weapon seems to be the grenades. OP frags in Reach and giving players plasmas at spawn in 4.[/quote] Reach was still arena style while Halo 4 is a call of duty hybrid. Reach wins automatically. [quote]The only things that save Reach from total annihilation is it's other features. Firefight is better than Spartan Ops because it doesn't try to be something it isn't, although Reach FF is vastly inferior to ODST. Despite dat grey, Reach forge>4 Forge. Forge world gives us a huge canvas to bring our ideas to life, better than the 3 biggish maps on H4. Can't comment on Customs as I have yet to play H4 customs, and I doubt I will because pretty much all my friends are sick of the game.[/quote] Halo 4 customs are shallow. Very shallow. [Edited on 01.07.2013 3:00 PM PST]
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    • Gravy Mind

      Gravy Mind

      1/7/2013 10:32:16 PM Permalink
      [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GalaxySpider And Halo Reach graphics are slowdowning. So yeah, Reach's performance was -blam!-, and that doesn't help me very much when I snipe and zoom in on most maps. Not to mention the countless particle effects. The motion blur to make everything look more realistic (which makes no sense in this universe to make anything look believeable actually) was sooo annoying in Reach. I hated it in the BETA and hoped for an option to turn it off in the final version. But no option... Reachs graphics were grey, brown and red. Depressing and boring to look at. H4 graphics > Reach. Sometimes less is more. And god thx it has no blur. I prefer smooth running and clear + more colorful graphics over unnecessary large environments with pointless huge skyboxes which results in slowdowns and graphical lags which are a NO GO in multiplayer mode for me. [/quote] motion blur wasn't good in Reach, I'll admit that. My post didn't say Reach>4 or 4>Reach I was commenting on why different people prefer different Halos. [quote] Reach's campaign on legendary is a joke. The A.I. is anything but challenging. It's a bunch of cheating freaks. FRG aimbot across the map with bullet travel times from another universe, and Elites with more shields than a covenant super carrier, evading every single DMR or Needler shot, throwing nades with light speed which can't be evaded sometimes because of the huge blast radius, which is pathetic. Are you kidding? It's cheap scripted and proofs Bungies lazy A.I. and enemy designers did nothing over the years. If a game forces me to use a plasma pistol over and over and over again, than it's bad game design at its best. Challenge comes from good A.I. and not giving them uber abilities. Halo 4 does it right. Legendary is challenging and fun at the same time because you actually can use your own playstyle and weapons YOU want. If you want it harder, you can activate skulls. It's optional and therefore more balanced. In Reach nothing is optional. The game is simply not fun on legendary. It#s frustrating.[/quote] Again, it's frustrating if you're not good at it. You can't really be bad at Halo 4's campaign because the AI never show signs of making a significant effort to kill you. They'll just wait for you to attack them and then die because they have hardly any shields and take forever to kill you because when you strafe they are like "ahh, I can't aim for s**t". [quote] Also it doesn't really matter how many instakill weapons H4 has. H4 problem is that there are too many AT THE SAME TIME. The game could have 100 instakill weapons. If only 4 were on a map it would be fine. So the problem is not the amount of power weapons. Binary Rifle is ok. It's a body shot instakill. So what? You can fire that thing like 4 times standard, with a reload after 2 shots. You can do muuuuch more kills with the regular human sniper if every hit is a headhsot, which isn't that hard. So we have 4 possible Binary kills versus uhm, 12 (or more with ammo perk) human sniper kills or so?... Binary also is visible via red laser. So people only think it's OP where actually the human snipe still is the most OP sniper in the whole series. Some power also weapons have been nerfed like the FRG. The cartridges explode much sooner in mid air, which shortens the range of the faster smaller projectile (before it bursts into the actual bigger one cauz the bigger projectiles are slower as we all know). So the FRG in Reach still is the most powerful and easiest to use in the entire series. I once made a running riot on Spire within 3 minutes in Reach in BTB. Never achieved that in H4. And btw the radius of most explosives in H4 are drastically reduced compared to Reach.[/quote] ok, so the FRG is easier to use in Reach, but it appears on one map, and no other guns (except the plasma pistol) follow this pattern. AR, DMR, magnum, sniper rifle, concussion rifle, needler, rocket launcher, shotgun are all easier to use in Halo 4. Not to mention guns that were difficult to use such as the NR and grenade launcher were taken out in favour of the carbine and sticky detonator which are easy to use. [Edited on 01.07.2013 2:42 PM PST]
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    • Cheeseoid

      Cheeseoid

      1/7/2013 8:15:02 PM Permalink
      Sorry to disappoint you OP, but you don't put out a fire by pouring petrol on it. OT 4>Reach because Campaign. It actually had character development, and not all the characters made me want to hate them. The only one who is properly annoying is Del Rio, Not many people would be hating on Palmer if they didn't have her in Spartan Ops or at least given her better dialogue. The large human presence in the middle of the campaign sort of spoiled it but the first four missions were outstanding. I didn't get any feel of an invasion in Reach until four/five missions into the game. The multiplayer is piss poor in both so I'm not even going to bother to go into detail about everything in both. They both had bad maps (Too colourful in 4 and for Reach, dat grey) and the primary weapon seems to be the grenades. OP frags in Reach and giving players plasmas at spawn in 4. The only things that save Reach from total annihilation is it's other features. Firefight is better than Spartan Ops because it doesn't try to be something it isn't, although Reach FF is vastly inferior to ODST. Despite dat grey, Reach forge>4 Forge. Forge world gives us a huge canvas to bring our ideas to life, better than the 3 biggish maps on H4. Can't comment on Customs as I have yet to play H4 customs, and I doubt I will because pretty much all my friends are sick of the game. [Edited on 01.07.2013 12:15 PM PST]
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    • scotia96

      scotia96

      1/7/2013 7:40:16 PM Permalink
      I missed B.net so much OT: I believe that Reach was the foundation for Halo 4 in which Halo 4 would be built on. I believe that Halo 4 requires more skill because every weapon can beat the other depending on the persons skill level. I remember countless times where I outgun people with DMRs with my AR. However, it also depends on the range, which with the DMR is incredible and next to near impossible to beat at a farther distance. Even with a BR, I rarely beat people with DMRs at farther distances because the gun is too bloody accurate. Besides the point, this is my opinion. I believe that Halo 4 was a little bit of a let down for me.
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    • Terrorizer
    • Spidey

      Spidey

      1/7/2013 4:41:06 PM Permalink
      And Halo Reach graphics are slowdowning. So yeah, Reach's performance was -blam!-, and that doesn't help me very much when I snipe and zoom in on most maps. Not to mention the countless particle effects. The motion blur to make everything look more realistic (which makes no sense in this universe to make anything look believeable actually) was sooo annoying in Reach. I hated it in the BETA and hoped for an option to turn it off in the final version. But no option... Reachs graphics were grey, brown and red. Depressing and boring to look at. H4 graphics > Reach. Sometimes less is more. And god thx it has no blur. I prefer smooth running and clear + more colorful graphics over unnecessary large environments with pointless huge skyboxes which results in slowdowns and graphical lags which are a NO GO in multiplayer mode for me. Reach's campaign on legendary is a joke. The A.I. is anything but challenging. It's a bunch of cheating freaks. FRG aimbot across the map with bullet travel times from another universe, and Elites with more shields than a covenant super carrier, evading every single DMR or Needler shot, throwing nades with light speed which can't be evaded sometimes because of the huge blast radius, which is pathetic. Are you kidding? It's cheap scripted and proofs Bungies lazy A.I. and enemy designers did nothing over the years. If a game forces me to use a plasma pistol over and over and over again, than it's bad game design at its best. Challenge comes from good A.I. and not giving them uber abilities. Halo 4 does it right. Legendary is challenging and fun at the same time because you actually can use your own playstyle and weapons YOU want. If you want it harder, you can activate skulls. It's optional and therefore more balanced. In Reach nothing is optional. The game is simply not fun on legendary. It#s frustrating. Also it doesn't really matter how many instakill weapons H4 has. H4 problem is that there are too many AT THE SAME TIME. The game could have 100 instakill weapons. If only 4 were on a map it would be fine. So the problem is not the amount of power weapons. Binary Rifle is ok. It's a body shot instakill. So what? You can fire that thing like 4 times standard, with a reload after 2 shots. You can do muuuuch more kills with the regular human sniper if every hit is a headhsot, which isn't that hard. So we have 4 possible Binary kills versus uhm, 12 (or more with ammo perk) human sniper kills or so?... Binary also is visible via red laser. So people only think it's OP where actually the human snipe still is the most OP sniper in the whole series. Some power also weapons have been nerfed like the FRG. The cartridges explode much sooner in mid air, which shortens the range of the faster smaller projectile (before it bursts into the actual bigger one cauz the bigger projectiles are slower as we all know). So the FRG in Reach still is the most powerful and easiest to use in the entire series. I once made a running riot on Spire within 3 minutes in Reach in BTB. Never achieved that in H4. And btw the radius of most explosives in H4 are drastically reduced compared to Reach. [Edited on 01.07.2013 9:07 AM PST]
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    • Gravy Mind
    • Gravy Mind

      Gravy Mind

      1/7/2013 3:54:19 PM Permalink
      [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Neutralism Well Pre-TU Reach was pure terrible, and I would say worse than Halo 4s multiplayer. TU Reach was tolerable I guess, and leagues above Halo 4's current state. [/quote] TU just made the DMR, NR and pistol easier to use, by decreasing bloom. This decreased kill times for most people. This was good for most people as kill times in Reach were too long if people weren't very good with the basic weapons. However TU also messed up competitive play as it led to the DMR and NR dominating the rest of the sandbox.
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    • ankerd123

      ankerd123

      1/7/2013 4:59:41 AM Permalink
      [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nicksta14 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] boomdeyadah ZBNS > TU Reach > Halo 4 default = Reach default[/quote][/quote]
    • Fishy

      Fishy

      1/7/2013 4:27:44 AM Permalink
      [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] boomdeyadah ZBNS > TU Reach > Halo 4 default = Reach default[/quote]
    • Boomdeyadah
    • THOMSY Aus

      THOMSY Aus

      1/6/2013 10:09:15 PM Permalink
      My opinions is that Halo 4 is more Balanced than Halo Reach. Halo 4 definitely requires a TU to fix some of the major issues and minor ones. I also find Halo 4 very annoying that weapons from fallen Spartans despawn super fast. And the Enemies in Campaign or Spartan Ops, a lot of the time stand still when far away and you can easily kill them. Both Halo Reach and Halo 4 have nothing on Halo 3 TU. [Edited on 01.06.2013 2:10 PM PST]
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    • The Thorian

      The Thorian

      1/6/2013 9:39:10 PM Permalink
      I like both Halo: Reach and Halo 4. Halo: Reach because of the FFA gametypes, and Halo 4 for the team gametypes.
    • redstorm205
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