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THE qrunt

THE qrunt

12/11/2012 10:40:32 AM
First off, I realize that this is totally an opinion post. Some of you WILL disagree. Objectively, I think Halo 4's campaign was fun. I'm just posting this because I'm interested in seeing if there are any other veteran Halo fans who couldn't help but feel that the game's story line felt...odd. While I won't bring up Spartan Ops below, I feel that it also suffers from what I try articulate in the rest of the post, as well as from some very corny writing that thankfully is not present in the campaign. Personally, I felt like the way in which the story was told in Halo 4 was so alien to the old-school Halo universe I know and love. I guess this "new direction" started with the Greg Bear novels, and to be honest, I purposely didn't read them because I didn't like the new lore that was being introduced. I've always seen the Halo universe as being set in what I call "grounded science fiction." In other words, everything seems believable and real, with acceptable scientific explanations behind even Forerunner tech (like the light-bridges: above our comprehension, but logically something that could be possible with highly advanced technology). Indexing and modifying DNA was about as far as I was willing to go, but still, I could reasonably understand that a race as highly advanced as the Forerunners could achieve something like that, considering that even today we are gaining so much more knowledge about that kind of thing. Halo 4, though, is [i]completely[/i] different. Not only are the Forerunners revealed, but all this super high science fiction nonsense is constantly being crammed down your throat. It almost gets downright spiritual, with the Composer and the Prometheans, and bridging the gap between reality and the digital world and all that weird, unexplainable stuff. There are many more examples of situations like this (the dream-like sequence during the conversation between John and the Librarian's A.I., where by merely being near him, is able to somehow activate his gene geas). Also, I mentioned earlier that I was okay with the idea that the Forerunners could modify DNA. I am NOT, however, accepting of the fact that they could create the kind of colossal "inevitability" that the Librarian speaks of. How does it make any logical sense that DNA could be modified to actually plan the specific actions of every single member of an entire species for hundreds of thousands of years, literally predetermining their will so that the Spartan program is born and Master Chief is spawned? That's God-tier, and simply not believably doable by anything that's not supernatural. Not to mention, the Deus ex machina in this game is out of control. Cortana turns into a physical being by fusing her multiple personalities (...what) into the light-bridge in order to chain the Didact down, who for seemingly the millionth time decides to give the Master Chief a long Dragon Ball Z lecture instead of easily killing him, causing him to drop the Chief, who miraculously lands on the edge of the bridge,and blah blah blah until he is shielded FROM A POINT-BLANK NUKE by Cortana when she somehow wraps the light-bridge around him even though nothing physical exists to project that bridge anymore, after which they proceed to have a conversation, which seems almost to take place inside Master Chief's mind or inside the hard-light bubble, again with no power going to anything because the ship has already been blown up. Wow. Talk about a run on sentence, but I don't know how else to express my exasperation. Now let's talk about other things that hurt my immersion in the universe. The presentation of the Forerunners is so underwhelming to me, because the Didact's character makes them seem so [i]ordinary[/i]. The Forerunners are supposed to be an enlightened, almost majestic, race. Why is one of their most powerful leaders consumed by such base emotions like anger and a lust for revenge? I wanted them to be the sole protectors of the galaxy, and the most advanced civilization ever. I guess this all just stems from the fact that I dislike all the new lore about the ancient humans and the Precursors. The Forerunner's enemy was destined, in my mind, to always be the Flood, and the Flood alone. Instead, all the new stuff about the parasite being "created" as a weapon or whatever leaves such a sour taste in my mouth. And Guilty Spark actually being, in some sense, the "soul" of an ancient human? That honestly ruins him as a character for me. Speaking of the Forerunners as ordinary, run-of-the-mill characters, what is with the ret-conning of their powerful technology? Master Chief is wearing a "class 2 combat skin," according to Guilty Spark, and the Forerunner's use a "class 12." And yet, Chief can mow down Prometheans? How is that even possible? Sentinels, I get. They are low-powered, weak, expendable machines that are simply meant to mop up Flood with their lasers. The Prometheans are supposed to be the army of the Didact himself, a great Forerunner general! Which begs the question, what level of combat skin is the Didact wearing? How can he possibly be defeated by the Chief? Yeah, he used a Forerunner grenade, but the Chief was able to survive blasts from those same grenades! And how is the Didact's ship destroyed by a lowly human bomb, nuke or otherwise? Maybe you could argue how it's possible, but see, that's my point. I never had to do all this logic searching just to make a Halo story acceptably believable. Now let's get to the real nit-picky stuff. Artistic license was taken too far. Why did the Grunt's foot structure completely change? Did the invisible super-secret nanobots get them too? And why do they sound so radically different? The Grunts in Reach didn't speak English, but they still sounded like Grunts. The Didact's armor looks really awesome, to be completely honest. But seriously though, does that look like it belongs in the Halo universe? It looks like a new raid tier set for Warriors in World of Warcraft. And his "constraint field technology," which has unexplained range and power, seems so hackneyed and typical of a sci-fi bad guy. I'll be brief about the actual gameplay. The quicktime events were cool, but they don't feel like Halo. The music is great, but is was too much in the background, and it wasn't used to give the same kind of atmosphere like in previous games. Again, this wasn't bad, just too different for my tastes (like the Star Wars type music on Mission 7, for example). Master Chief's grunts and groans are realistic, and make him feel more real. That's the problem, though, because he is supposed to be [i]beyond[/i] ordinary, capable of handling any pain and exertion with stone cold focus. Ok, I've got to stop. You get my drift. I know this sounds like I'm absolutely ripping the game apart, but it's just me trying to explain my feelings. I do enjoy some things, like the exploration of the relationship between Chief and Cortana (as long as it isn't romantic. I didn't get that vibe, but if it is, then I take it back). My general feelings about the campaign have actually even kept me from playing the competitive multiplayer as much as I thought I was going to, because I feel so disconnected. The game, as a separate entity not related to the rest of the series, is good. As a Halo story though, it falters. Part of me almost wants to think of this trilogy as a non-canon "what if" story so that I can enjoy it for what it is, because otherwise, I feel less enthusiastic about the classic Halo universe that I loved so much.

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    Najar

    Najar

    12/14/2012 3:07:44 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude [b]Cortana should have stepped up, taken control of the Composer, threw the Didact out, and gone absolutely bat -blam!- crazy with only the Chief able to get through to her.[/b] Rampant UNSC AI in control of doomsday weapon? It would have been awesome. [b]Taking control of UNSC and Covie fleets and throwing them about like toys.[/b][/quote] I would have seriously LOVED that! Still liked what they did though, I could really feel the desperation Cortana was going through. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 Yes, the game doesn't compensate particularly well for those who haven't invested in Halo as a universe, which can make some of the more tense moments quite puzzling since the story has resonant connections with a huge variety of sourcesgoing back to 2007 (Greg Bear's Forerunner Saga, Karen Traviss' Kilo-5 Trilogy, Halo: Evolutions, Halo CEA's Terminals, [b]Halo 3s Terminals and the viral IRIS campaign[/b]).[/quote] Don't really know about that, the Iris campaign pointed it like the forerunners found us (in a not-evolved state) in their last moments of war with the flood, and they thought of us as good "reclaimers" for what they had left behind. It also implies the forerunners actually wanted to save themselves, but their shield worlds failed for some reason. Later in the H3 terminals we found out that was because MB. No mention of the new lore there. [Edited on 12.14.2012 1:56 PM PST]
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    adamj004

    adamj004

    12/14/2012 3:04:55 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Alf stewert [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] adamj004 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Alf stewert [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] adamj004 What i didnt like when 343 took over is that they are expanding the lore far too rapidly. We have 2 book series running along side each other and they are based on each end of the universe (time wise) and we have a new game trilogy in the making too. Its all far too much too soon, I dont know about anyone else but the universe/lore has become confusing and very messy and its just a burden to keep up with everything and its made me lose interest. Also i didn't like were 343 kind of ignored some of the canon that bungie set in place, like the librarian for example, anyone who read the terminals in halo 3 would know that the librarian died. The story that those terminals told was very interesting. Her and the didact trying to convince each other to light the rings or to not light the rings, then the librarian finally accepts that the halo array is the only solution then tells the didact to do it. Then she goes to earth tells of her final thoughts and does her final deeds then she embraces her fate when the rings are fired. But then 343 just ends up bringing her back into it. They are telling far too much and the mystery is just sucked out of the games and lore, somes things should be left untold to maintain that level of mystery and curiosity. [/quote] The librarian in halo 4 was a Ai helper of her if you will, [b]that and while yes she is still a live Physically, it's fine If I remember well we were never told she died when the rings ignited[/b] [/quote] Some quotes from the terminals in halo 3 after the librarian tells the didact to fire the rings. L "You should see the mountain that watches over it. A beautiful thing--a snowcapped sentinel. [b]That's where I will spend what time is left to me"[/b] L "I have to stop transmitting. The thing is listening. Its [thinking dead] are babbling--laughing through every channel they can find. Be proud. The Mind claims victory, yet it still doesn't suspect. You've outwitted it, my love. And now you can destroy it. [b]But you cannot save me.[/b]" --------------------------------------------------------------- I know it doesn't say straight out she was gonna die but surely that was bungie was aiming towards after reading those quotes.[/quote] Seens open ended to me which may have been bungies idea, keeping it open for 343, or just to leave it open for later[/quote] To me it doesn't seem bungie has left it open as it appears the librarian talks of the time she has left and she can't be saved , and this is just before the rings are fired so it looks like she is going to die when they are activated.
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    Alf stewert

    Alf stewert

    12/14/2012 2:41:18 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] adamj004 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Alf stewert [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] adamj004 What i didnt like when 343 took over is that they are expanding the lore far too rapidly. We have 2 book series running along side each other and they are based on each end of the universe (time wise) and we have a new game trilogy in the making too. Its all far too much too soon, I dont know about anyone else but the universe/lore has become confusing and very messy and its just a burden to keep up with everything and its made me lose interest. Also i didn't like were 343 kind of ignored some of the canon that bungie set in place, like the librarian for example, anyone who read the terminals in halo 3 would know that the librarian died. The story that those terminals told was very interesting. Her and the didact trying to convince each other to light the rings or to not light the rings, then the librarian finally accepts that the halo array is the only solution then tells the didact to do it. Then she goes to earth tells of her final thoughts and does her final deeds then she embraces her fate when the rings are fired. But then 343 just ends up bringing her back into it. They are telling far too much and the mystery is just sucked out of the games and lore, somes things should be left untold to maintain that level of mystery and curiosity. [/quote] The librarian in halo 4 was a Ai helper of her if you will, [b]that and while yes she is still a live Physically, it's fine If I remember well we were never told she died when the rings ignited[/b] [/quote] Some quotes from the terminals in halo 3 after the librarian tells the didact to fire the rings. L "You should see the mountain that watches over it. A beautiful thing--a snowcapped sentinel. [b]That's where I will spend what time is left to me"[/b] L "I have to stop transmitting. The thing is listening. Its [thinking dead] are babbling--laughing through every channel they can find. Be proud. The Mind claims victory, yet it still doesn't suspect. You've outwitted it, my love. And now you can destroy it. [b]But you cannot save me.[/b]" --------------------------------------------------------------- I know it doesn't say straight out she was gonna die but surely that was bungie was aiming towards after reading those quotes.[/quote] Seens open ended to me which may have been bungies idea, keeping it open for 343, or just to leave it open for later
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    adamj004

    adamj004

    12/14/2012 2:24:41 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Alf stewert [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] adamj004 What i didnt like when 343 took over is that they are expanding the lore far too rapidly. We have 2 book series running along side each other and they are based on each end of the universe (time wise) and we have a new game trilogy in the making too. Its all far too much too soon, I dont know about anyone else but the universe/lore has become confusing and very messy and its just a burden to keep up with everything and its made me lose interest. Also i didn't like were 343 kind of ignored some of the canon that bungie set in place, like the librarian for example, anyone who read the terminals in halo 3 would know that the librarian died. The story that those terminals told was very interesting. Her and the didact trying to convince each other to light the rings or to not light the rings, then the librarian finally accepts that the halo array is the only solution then tells the didact to do it. Then she goes to earth tells of her final thoughts and does her final deeds then she embraces her fate when the rings are fired. But then 343 just ends up bringing her back into it. They are telling far too much and the mystery is just sucked out of the games and lore, somes things should be left untold to maintain that level of mystery and curiosity. [/quote] The librarian in halo 4 was a Ai helper of her if you will, [b]that and while yes she is still a live Physically, it's fine If I remember well we were never told she died when the rings ignited[/b] [/quote] Some quotes from the terminals in halo 3 after the librarian tells the didact to fire the rings. L "You should see the mountain that watches over it. A beautiful thing--a snowcapped sentinel. [b]That's where I will spend what time is left to me"[/b] L "I have to stop transmitting. The thing is listening. Its [thinking dead] are babbling--laughing through every channel they can find. Be proud. The Mind claims victory, yet it still doesn't suspect. You've outwitted it, my love. And now you can destroy it. [b]But you cannot save me.[/b]" --------------------------------------------------------------- I know it doesn't say straight out she was gonna die but surely that was bungie was aiming towards after reading those quotes. [Edited on 12.13.2012 6:30 PM PST]
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    DO0MTRA1N

    DO0MTRA1N

    12/14/2012 2:10:56 AM Permalink
    Man, now I wish that I HAD read the books and/or paid more attention to the details whilst playing the Halo campaigns to be able to lend to the conversation... :/
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    Alf stewert

    Alf stewert

    12/14/2012 1:48:55 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Haloroach [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] adamj004 What i didnt like when 343 took over is that they are expanding the lore far too rapidly. We have 2 book series running along side each other and they are based on each end of the universe (time wise) and we have a new game trilogy in the making too. Its all far too much too soon, I dont know about anyone else but the universe/lore has become confusing and very messy and its just a burden to keep up with everything and its made me lose interest. Also i didn't like were 343 kind of ignored some of the canon that bungie set in place, like the librarian for example, anyone who read the terminals in halo 3 would know that the librarian died. The story that those terminals told was very interesting. Her and the didact trying to convince each other to light the rings or to not light the rings, then the librarian finally accepts that the halo array is the only solution then tells the didact to do it. Then she goes to earth tells of her final thoughts and does her final deeds then she embraces her fate when the rings are fired. But then 343 just ends up bringing her back into it. They are telling far too much and the mystery is just sucked out of the games and lore, somes things should be left untold to maintain that level of mystery and curiosity. [/quote] The Librarian [I]is[/I] dead in Halo 4. "Even in death, her meddling continues."[/quote] He believes her to be dead, who wouldn't since he has been stuck in the cryptum for centuries, oh and in CEA spark says shes alive in one of the terminals, that and spark is looking for her, apparently shes on earth [Edited on 12.13.2012 5:49 PM PST]
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    Wolvers

    Wolvers

    12/14/2012 1:45:08 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BobBQ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Plasma Prestige 343i's depiction of AI rampancy has been very accurate canonically, whether you like it or not.[/quote] That's funny, I don't remember Cortana quoting medieval poetry or threatening to teleport the Chief into space for being slow and dumb.[/quote] That's [i]Marathon[/i] canon. Although both universes feature AI Rampancy, it doesn't mean the rules of one hold true for the other. I think you're also forgetting the part of [i]Forward Unto Dawn[/i] where she nearly shuts down John's cryogenics pod whilst they're drifting, out of Anger.
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    Gojira

    Gojira

    12/14/2012 1:32:28 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] adamj004 What i didnt like when 343 took over is that they are expanding the lore far too rapidly. We have 2 book series running along side each other and they are based on each end of the universe (time wise) and we have a new game trilogy in the making too. Its all far too much too soon, I dont know about anyone else but the universe/lore has become confusing and very messy and its just a burden to keep up with everything and its made me lose interest. Also i didn't like were 343 kind of ignored some of the canon that bungie set in place, like the librarian for example, anyone who read the terminals in halo 3 would know that the librarian died. The story that those terminals told was very interesting. Her and the didact trying to convince each other to light the rings or to not light the rings, then the librarian finally accepts that the halo array is the only solution then tells the didact to do it. Then she goes to earth tells of her final thoughts and does her final deeds then she embraces her fate when the rings are fired. But then 343 just ends up bringing her back into it. They are telling far too much and the mystery is just sucked out of the games and lore, somes things should be left untold to maintain that level of mystery and curiosity. [/quote] The Librarian [I]is[/I] dead in Halo 4. "Even in death, her meddling continues."
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    Alf stewert

    Alf stewert

    12/14/2012 1:30:00 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] adamj004 What i didnt like when 343 took over is that they are expanding the lore far too rapidly. We have 2 book series running along side each other and they are based on each end of the universe (time wise) and we have a new game trilogy in the making too. Its all far too much too soon, I dont know about anyone else but the universe/lore has become confusing and very messy and its just a burden to keep up with everything and its made me lose interest. Also i didn't like were 343 kind of ignored some of the canon that bungie set in place, like the librarian for example, anyone who read the terminals in halo 3 would know that the librarian died. The story that those terminals told was very interesting. Her and the didact trying to convince each other to light the rings or to not light the rings, then the librarian finally accepts that the halo array is the only solution then tells the didact to do it. Then she goes to earth tells of her final thoughts and does her final deeds then she embraces her fate when the rings are fired. But then 343 just ends up bringing her back into it. They are telling far too much and the mystery is just sucked out of the games and lore, somes things should be left untold to maintain that level of mystery and curiosity. [/quote] The librarian in halo 4 was a Ai helper of her if you will, that and while yes she is still a live Physically, it's fine If I remember well we were never told she died when the rings ignited
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    adamj004

    adamj004

    12/14/2012 12:54:30 AM Permalink
    What i didnt like when 343 took over is that they are expanding the lore far too rapidly. We have 2 book series running along side each other and they are based on each end of the universe (time wise) and we have a new game trilogy in the making too. Its all far too much too soon, I dont know about anyone else but the universe/lore has become confusing and very messy and its just a burden to keep up with everything and its made me lose interest. Also i didn't like were 343 kind of ignored some of the canon that bungie set in place, like the librarian for example, anyone who read the terminals in halo 3 would know that the librarian died. The story that those terminals told was very interesting. Her and the didact trying to convince each other to light the rings or to not light the rings, then the librarian finally accepts that the halo array is the only solution then tells the didact to do it. Then she goes to earth tells of her final thoughts and does her final deeds then she embraces her fate when the rings are fired. But then 343 just ends up bringing her back into it. They are telling far too much and the mystery is just sucked out of the games and lore, somes things should be left untold to maintain that level of mystery and curiosity. [Edited on 12.13.2012 4:57 PM PST]
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    Chronarch

    Chronarch

    12/13/2012 11:08:56 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Grunt Warchief with little effect on anything[/quote] I reiterate: She almost got John killed on multiple occasions and allowed the DIdact to escape Requiem.
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    Grunt Warchief

    Grunt Warchief

    12/13/2012 10:59:38 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BobBQ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Plasma Prestige 343i's depiction of AI rampancy has been very accurate canonically, whether you like it or not.[/quote] That's funny, I don't remember Cortana quoting medieval poetry or threatening to teleport the Chief into space for being slow and dumb.[/quote]If Cortana's rampancy truly was one of the two primery objectives of Halo 4, they should have done so much more with it; allow its consequences to be a genuin part of the campaign; have it influence intrugue just as much as the generic (word not used to scorn) level missions. Now it was wasted on her just spazzing all over the place for a second or two, now and then. It never changed or twisted the intrigue as significant as it should have in order to affect; make the player not only realise the gravity of it, but experience it at first hand, in-game. The [i]best[/i] thing would be to have the [i]Cortana moments[/i] occur in Halo 4 too, but this time be something that could have the player killed. Annoying, yes, but that would reflect how having an unstable A.I in ones [i]head[/i] would be, kind of accurately... [/quote] Not only did she just spazz out a couple times per level with little effect on anything but she used her rampancy to take down the super duper alien...... if i was the UNSC i would be figuring out a way to purposely make AIs go rampant in case more super duper aliens show up to use them as weapons.
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    flamedude

    flamedude

    12/13/2012 10:24:38 PM Permalink
    I really was hoping for some proper Durandal style epic tantrums from Cortana. We saw glimpses of it, and they were my favorite bits in the Campaign, but no more than that. Cortana should have stepped up, taken control of the Composer, threw the Didact out, and gone absolutely bat -blam!- crazy with only the Chief able to get through to her. Rampant UNSC AI in control of doomsday weapon? It would have been awesome. Taking control of UNSC and Covie fleets and throwing them about like toys.
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    Chronarch

    Chronarch

    12/13/2012 9:33:06 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] George 257 I appreciate it so much when somebody admits that Halo 4 is different from the original trilogy. It's incredibly refreshing.[/quote] Anyone who denies it obviously didn't pay attention. Yes, Halo 4 absolutely is tonally, atmospherically and thematically different to the original trilogy because it's [i]supposed[/i] to be. [quote]Some stuff in Halo 4 makes sense only if you read the Forerunner saga. Some people didn't or didn't want to read it and can now be confused when they see Halo 4 story.[/quote] Yes, the game doesn't compensate particularly well for those who haven't invested in Halo as a universe, which can make some of the more tense moments quite puzzling since the story has resonant connections with a huge variety of sourcesgoing back to 2007 (Greg Bear's Forerunner Saga, Karen Traviss' Kilo-5 Trilogy, Halo: Evolutions, Halo CEA's Terminals, Halo 3s Terminals and the viral IRIS campaign). On the one hand, this is extremely rewarding for a long-time fan like myself who [i]has[/i] been invested in these very rich aspects of the Halo franchise, but I have no doubt that I'm part of a minor few there. This is all somewhat compensated for in Halo 4s Terminals, each one providing layers of exposition for a number of things in the game, but the problem with this is that, unlike the previous games, you can't watch these in-game. Instead you have to back out and launch Waypoint, which is a massive issue for offline gamers who can't access this feature because... well, they [i]can't[/i] access it, alienating them from a significant aspect of the story. While the story of Halo 4 itself is fantastic IMO, the storytelling doesn't do very much at all to compensate for people who haven't yet looked at Halo beyond the game. This is a significant weakness in my opinion; one which I hope is rectified in the next game. [quote]it is the Forerunner saga that is also responsible for this bull-blam!- that Halo 4 presents.[/quote] No it isn't, it's the foolish decision not to include more exposition in the main campaign that responsible for "this bull-blam!-". The Forerunner Saga provided the substance for the game, but the storytelling in the game didn't allow that to be integrated in such a way that people who didn't read the novels or watch the Terminals could grasp it. [quote]And some of us still remember what the original trilogy was about.[/quote] What does this even mean? While Halo 4 may be different on many levels, the story itself remains entirely cohesive with the universe as a whole since the basis of the story is layered over the dozen plot points Halo 3 set up or left hanging. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka If Cortana's rampancy truly was one of the two primery objectives of Halo 4, they should have done so much more with it; allow its consequences to be a genuin part of the campaign; have it influence intrugue just as much as the generic (word not used to scorn) level missions. Now it was wasted on her just spazzing all over the place for a second or two, now and then. It never changed or twisted the intrigue as significant as it should have in order to affect; make the player not only realise the gravity of it, but experience it at first hand, in-game.[/quote] Er... there are a number of moments when rampancy takes over Cortana that she either ends up killing the Chief, or helping the Didact. [quote]The [i]best[/i] thing would be to have the [i]Cortana moments[/i] occur in Halo 4 too, but this time be something that could have the player killed. Annoying, yes, but that would reflect how having an unstable A.I in ones [i]head[/i] would be, kind of accurately... [/quote] I disagree. I'm quite content with the outlines of my HUD getting purple static to be honest, Cortana moments would be completely overdoing it and would seriously detract from the gameplay - just liek they did in Halo 3.
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    George 257

    George 257

    12/13/2012 8:52:40 PM Permalink
    I appreciate it so much when somebody admits that Halo 4 is different from the original trilogy. It's incredibly refreshing. I would like to point out somethign important: Some stuff in Halo 4 makes sense only if you read the Forerunner saga. Some people didn't or didn't want to read it and can now be confused when they see Halo 4 story. And I think this is alright - because it is the Forerunner saga that is also responsible for this bull-blam!- that Halo 4 presents. And some of us still remember what the original trilogy was about. [Edited on 12.13.2012 1:05 PM PST]
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    12/13/2012 11:00:02 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BobBQ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Plasma Prestige 343i's depiction of AI rampancy has been very accurate canonically, whether you like it or not.[/quote] That's funny, I don't remember Cortana quoting medieval poetry or threatening to teleport the Chief into space for being slow and dumb.[/quote]If Cortana's rampancy truly was one of the two primery objectives of Halo 4, they should have done so much more with it; allow its consequences to be a genuin part of the campaign; have it influence intrugue just as much as the generic (word not used to scorn) level missions. Now it was wasted on her just spazzing all over the place for a second or two, now and then. It never changed or twisted the intrigue as significant as it should have in order to affect; make the player not only realise the gravity of it, but experience it at first hand, in-game. The [i]best[/i] thing would be to have the [i]Cortana moments[/i] occur in Halo 4 too, but this time be something that could have the player killed. Annoying, yes, but that would reflect how having an unstable A.I in ones [i]head[/i] would be, kind of accurately... [Edited on 12.13.2012 3:11 AM PST]
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    IonicPaul

    IonicPaul

    12/13/2012 10:23:41 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BobBQ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Plasma Prestige 343i's depiction of AI rampancy has been very accurate canonically, whether you like it or not.[/quote] That's funny, I don't remember Cortana quoting medieval poetry or threatening to teleport the Chief into space for being slow and dumb.[/quote] New favorite moderator.
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    ThunderCavaler7

    ThunderCavaler7

    12/13/2012 7:05:06 AM Permalink
    While I disagree on not expanding John's character by making him seem more realistic (I do enjoy that angle), I do agree with this whole direction on the Forerunners. The more you hear about the Forerunners, the more you realize how much of a threat the [b]FLOOD[/b] was, as this one parasite basically wiped out one of the greatest races ever at the zenith of their power. The Forerunners, in a sense, exist only to help amplify the threat of the Flood, and aren't really made to be elaborated upon further beyond the fact that the Halos were literally the best chance against the Flood, a "Death instead of Assimilation" strategy. Seeing them both tangible and defeatable not only ruins their majestic enigma as this great race, but also kinda makes the Flood seem weaker in comparison, as we've proven to be better than the Forerunners in that regard. I would've preferred to take any other direction with the Halo story than with this Forerunner arc. But let's see where it goes. I personally did not enjoy Halo 4's story, as I thought the whole Human-Forerunner War is absolutely silly, novels be damned, but I'll give 343i the benefit of the doubt and let them surprise me with 5 and 6.
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    BobBQ

    BobBQ

    12/13/2012 6:04:55 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Plasma Prestige 343i's depiction of AI rampancy has been very accurate canonically, whether you like it or not.[/quote] That's funny, I don't remember Cortana quoting medieval poetry or threatening to teleport the Chief into space for being slow and dumb.
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    THOMSY Aus

    THOMSY Aus

    12/13/2012 3:03:42 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Let's see, music I agree with coma on. Why? The other day I was playing the Dawn mission, and upon reaching the EVA part, I instantly went "Wait, this music sounds like something from bourne." It's great music, but at times it sometimes fits with the scenes, and others it's kinda out of place. My mom and dad outright said the menu music reminds them of LOTR soundtrack. As for Covenant, I'm with Anton. They seem to be trying to mix halo CE-3 style ranking (with colors) and Halo reach (with armor) and failing massively. The Elites have like, a light green minor and another which is darker, but they all behave the same. It's hard to tell if I'm looking (at long range) a general or a minor based on armor. The MO of the Covenant typically was a "You know what rank of enemy you are facing at a glance."[/quote] Agreed, the song from Track 2 is difnitly from Bourne. And the level Infinity, some of the music reminds me of "Judge Dread" and "Avatar".
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    THOMSY Aus

    THOMSY Aus

    12/13/2012 2:17:16 AM Permalink
    I have read the 2 books in the Forerunner Saga, and they did completely change my prospesctive on what I thought the Forerunners were. The video from Halo Legends also changed this. If you have read the books, it also explaines at the end of book 2, that there is no cure to the flood, and the flood chooses who to infect. I hate this, and hope that the Promodium (Old Timeless One) was just lying to the Didact to scare him which it did. As the only reason Forerunners kept humans alive, and implanted memories becasue they believed we knew the cure. We may not even exist anyway. Im sure the 3rd book will discuss this. But the Halo Story has become very complicated. Halo REACH, CE, 2 3 and ODST have simple stoty Arcs that are easily to follow and awesome. Halo 4 Story Arc is also cool, but trying to work out WTF is happening is straining my brian.
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    Cmdr DaeFaron

    Cmdr DaeFaron

    12/12/2012 9:18:28 PM Permalink
    Let's see, music I agree with coma on. Why? The other day I was playing the Dawn mission, and upon reaching the EVA part, I instantly went "Wait, this music sounds like something from bourne." It's great music, but at times it sometimes fits with the scenes, and others it's kinda out of place. My mom and dad outright said the menu music reminds them of LOTR soundtrack. As for Covenant, I'm with Anton. They seem to be trying to mix halo CE-3 style ranking (with colors) and Halo reach (with armor) and failing massively. The Elites have like, a light green minor and another which is darker, but they all behave the same. It's hard to tell if I'm looking (at long range) a general or a minor based on armor. The MO of the Covenant typically was a "You know what rank of enemy you are facing at a glance."
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    ZEROGREENCHIEF

    ZEROGREENCHIEF

    12/12/2012 8:58:27 PM Permalink
    I'm dissapointed in numerous aspects of how 343 developed halo 4. Most of critisisms are directed at the gameplay mechanics themselves (I'll save those for another thread because they left out/ or changed a ton) I personally blame traviss, for a lot of what is wrong with halo 4. Her depiction of halsey has been dedicated to -blam!- all over her. I mean she has straight up said she doesnt like halsey, which is why she has been getting so much grief in the new trilogy. Since Glasslands, characters keep harping on and on about MUH CHILDREN AND MUH MORALS!, how awful the spartan program was and that halsey was a war criminal. I mean holy -blam!- she has written so many forced scenes its terrible. Lucy punching halsey was cringe worthy, and in the Thursday war when Vaz seriously considered murdering Halsey out right was so forced I had to put the book down for a few minutes. augh Dont even get me started on the Spartan 4's Palmer is an atrocious character and the the S4's re the equivalent of fratboys in power armor compared to the silent professional soldiers the s2's and s3's were. And what the -blam!- is with the art direction? Why do the jackals look so generic, they lost most of their birdlike atributes and look more lizard than ever. And the grunts! Why dont they spout one liners any more, they just BEEP AND BOOP! Halo 1 2 and 3 had thousands of lines of dialog for the npc's and they were amazing. Halo 4 barely has any, they drained personality from the characters and turned them into generic NPC's. I dont even want to protect my marines anymore. Augh Im rambling now
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    flamedude

    flamedude

    12/12/2012 8:47:59 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Alf stewert [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude I just found it odd that the guardians designated to contain the Didact were instantly turned to his side once he was released from his prison at a mere flick of his wrist. Now I don't want to be picky but generally speaking when someone is committed to a prison cell they are normally stripped of all weaponry or anything dangerous. The 21st century equivalent of the imprisonment of the Didact would be to arrest a criminal but allow them to keep their guns and knives and weapons when you put them in their cell. It's an utterly baffling thing to do. I have no idea how that conversation went; "Librarian I am going to place the Didact in the prison cell now, I just need to remove his device that allows him to control the Prometheans. After all we don't want him taking control of them, they are meant to be guarding him!" "Oh..... you know what..... let him keep the device. I know it doesn't make sense but.... um.... just let him keep it. I'm sure that we won't regret that in the future!" "Well that sounds pretty dumb to me but ok then. Also I will lay out his armor nearby so if he ever escapes, which he shouldn't, he can use his device thing to get his armor to fly up to him. Oh and he has the Force too." Halo 4: Awful Storytelling[/quote] Ugh Didact didn't have the force he was using a anti grav device which was built into his armor, and didact wasn't a prisoner per say, the librarian wanted him to reflect and once awaken perhaps help humanity who will have risen or died out, lets put it like this, he was kept in a jail on a timer and once released he is given his weapons back, to protect himself from whatever is alive at the time covenant/flood, humans, for if didact awoke to help the humans he would need his armor of battle and weapons, that includes the Promethean's, [/quote] Oh no. That was a joke dear, I know he doesn't literally have the Force. He just had something conveniently similar to it because he has magi..... sorry.... [i]advanced[/i] technology. As for the whole "Didact wasn't a prisoner", yes he was. Hence why he manipulated the Chief into releasing him. The convenience of his release giving him back all of his technological capabilities was just idiotic hole-ridden writing, and I have no idea how someone can defend that. Halo 4: Swiss Cheese Writing Masterclass
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    anton1792

    anton1792

    12/12/2012 8:41:34 PM Permalink
    I like what Bear brought, and I don't mind much of what Halo 4 brought; liked some of it even. I can't stand Traviss though, and don't really put much faith in 343i for allowing her to put such rubbish into the fiction. For me her stuff degraded the enjoyment I got out of following this franchise; dragged it all through the muck. Her novels just retread the well beaten path and at worst will be a one way ticket to mediocrity without aspiration or any central sci-fi elements that previously lay at the core of Halo. I'm not sure if 343i is actually taking Halo down the path she wants it to go. Halo 4 and Spartan Ops seemed to refute some of her points, which was good. However they also reinforce some others, which makes them hard to ignore unlike other poor quality instalments which were standalone. I can't really agree with you on the portrayal of the Forerunners as being supposedly enlightened before. The Halo 3 Terminals did imply that something was wrong with the way they ruled. It didn't explicitly state any one particular thing, but something wasn't right when it said the Forerunners stripped the galaxy of all capacity for self-defence. Species' aren't all likely to give up their independence to a foreign power they don't know all too well. Of course that could be interpreted broadly, and maybe they did flanderize it by going straight to base desires and corruption. It could have meant misguided belief in a greater good which drove them. I don't agree that the Forerunners were ever well grounded in reality though. A lot of their technology from the previous trilogy was outright impossible by known physics, literal hard light included. Agreed on the artistic licence. I don't think it's a nit-pick though, as it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The Covenant's aesthetics contributed to their character. With these, frankly, unoriginal redesigns their characterization has been negatively impacted in many ways. They are anachronistic. The narrative style that 343i have been following in general with respect to the Covenant has been one that feels as if Reach was the last game in the series narratively speaking rather than it being Halo 3, and is one of the largest things that degrades my faith in them. They need to sit up and start taking themselves seriously here, because an entire third of the story (The Covenant) is being flanderized and neglected. This includes the complete lack of explanation of any kind as to the nature, identity and purpose of these "Covenant" in Halo 4. What a testament it is to how mistreated and rather poorly planned out this section of the story has been in that we still cannot say, for 100% definite, whether or not they are a faction or a Neo-Covenant Empire. That's a rather big question people had after Halo 3, too. It could also have been answered with a single line of exposition from a character in the know. I felt that extremely conservative exposition was the biggest thing wrong with the story, really.
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    Psycho

    Psycho

    12/12/2012 5:50:06 PM Permalink
    Ok, I'm not reading anything else after your post because it was quite long. BUT, I did acknowledge your opinion and I agree on everything! Your post was one of the longest ones I have seen, but it was worth reading. Yes, you are right about everything. There is nothing we can do now though. 343i -blam!- up Halo 4 like poking -blam!- with a stick. They had it, but they did not know what to do with it. So they tampered, trying to introduce fast paced gameplay and it resembles too much of a modern shooter. And they delivered it unfinished and buggy, Halo 4 WAS the beta. They should've spent more time perfecting. Their Company is going down the -blam!-er. We can only hope they realise their mistakes and deliver Halo 5 as Halo was meant to be.
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