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11/30/2012 7:57:46 PM
147
Why do women think they can make good soldiers?
From a physiology standpoint, it doesn't seem logical for them to be soldiers. They're not as strong as men and could contribute to more casualties and a waste of more resources that could be used on men. Also, I'm not sexist. Let's discuss this; I have an open mind.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Son of Eire What if you go down and the only one nearby is a female soldier. How is she gonna drag that 200lb man plus 80lb kit to safety? How is she going to pull a man out of a burning tank?[/quote]As easily as a male who has equal strenght. Gender doesn't matter, the strenght one has does.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Silent Breath [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [/quote] Basically this guy want's nothing but the bare minimum. Nice logic for life and death situations.[/quote]I beg your pardon, where you in the military? I was. So has nearly everyone in my family. Speak from what you know about. [/quote] I was in JROTC, and know enough to know that you don't know what you're talking about. You're over simplifying combat.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Silent Breath [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [/quote] Basically this guy want's nothing but the bare minimum. Nice logic for life and death situations.[/quote]I beg your pardon, where you in the military? I was. So has nearly everyone in my family. Speak from what you know about.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie Have you been in the military or have taken a PT test?[/quote] Yes [quote]The score really has nothing to do with whether or not the soldier in question can carry a ruck or aim a rifle. Can they do a job? That's the only question that matters.[/quote] I agree with that. As I said on the previous page, if anyone, regardless of gender, proves themselves capable, why shouldn't they be given the opportunity? All I've ever said in this thread is that the effort required would be significantly greater for a woman to match up to the physical requirements of their male colleagues should they be allowed entrance to frontline soldiering. [quote]The PT question comes up with numbers minded CO's that promote their people on a number than on performance. PT scores can make or break someone not attached to a combat unit.[/quote] Well not really. A PT score can stand someone in good stead, or should they fail or perform badly, can affect their career negatively, but for the most part that is due to the implication of lethargy or effort. Providing you show progress (and are passing) it is unlikely your PT performances will ever really be worth consideration if you're not in a combat role
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] deltahalo UK [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie Doesn't matter. The run is the same. Sure push-ups and sit-ups is at a lesser amount, but so what? Can they aim an M-4 or carry their ruck? If so, who cares about the number of push-ups needed to max a PT test.[/quote] It would, however, be reasonable to question the endurance abilities in carrying their ruck for an entire patrol (i.e 12 hours)[/quote] Have you been in the military or have taken a PT test? The score really has nothing to do with whether or not the soldier in question can carry a ruck or aim a rifle. Can they do a job? That's the only question that matters. The PT question comes up with numbers minded CO's that promote their people on a number than on performance. PT scores can make or break someone not attached to a combat unit.[/quote]I think PT is a big part of being in the military and should be a crucial part in being in. Physical training plays a huge role in damn near every job in the military. Yes, I know women have combat roles. I'm not saying they can't do it but I'm not saying there aren't things that women just simply shouldn't do. But that comes more from a personal opinion rather than rules an regulations. [Edited on 11.30.2012 3:47 PM PST]
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I'm not even sure why there's talk of pushups and situps when combat qualification requires a combat fitness/readiness(USMC) test that is more rigorous. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Silent Breath So bench presses and squats? What exactly should we use then?[/quote]Elimination of the standard PRT/PFT/PFA/whatever the Army does. It is almost exclusively irrelevant to combat standards. The CFT/CRT mentioned above are good alternatives and do better at demonstrating fitness. [Edited on 11.30.2012 3:47 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [/quote] Basically this guy want's nothing but the bare minimum. Nice logic for life and death situations.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote]This doesn't apply to every military out there.[/quote]Sure. Which military out there has the same PT standards for both male and female recruits?[/quote] Doesn't matter. The run is the same. Sure push-ups and sit-ups is at a lesser amount, but so what? Can they aim an M-4 or carry their ruck? If so, who cares about the number of push-ups needed to max a PT test.[/quote]They don't have to run as fast as the men. Would you say that's fair or wouldn't be a problem? [/quote]Can they run as fast as needed? That's the only question. And Camm, you know that women are serving right now in combat zones. You know they are trading shots with the Taliban. They get hit with the IED's and the mortar attacks, just like the men do. PT scores don't mean much when you wear the k-pot and flack vest.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] deltahalo UK [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote]This doesn't apply to every military out there.[/quote]Sure. Which military out there has the same PT standards for both male and female recruits?[/quote] Doesn't matter. The run is the same. Sure push-ups and sit-ups is at a lesser amount, but so what? Can they aim an M-4 or carry their ruck? If so, who cares about the number of push-ups needed to max a PT test.[/quote] It would, however, be reasonable to question the endurance abilities in carrying their ruck for an entire patrol (i.e 12 hours)[/quote] Have you been in the military or have taken a PT test? The score really has nothing to do with whether or not the soldier in question can carry a ruck or aim a rifle. Can they do a job? That's the only question that matters. The PT question comes up with numbers minded CO's that promote their people on a number than on performance. PT scores can make or break someone not attached to a combat unit.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote]This doesn't apply to every military out there.[/quote]Sure. Which military out there has the same PT standards for both male and female recruits?[/quote] Doesn't matter. The run is the same. Sure push-ups and sit-ups is at a lesser amount, but so what? Can they aim an M-4 or carry their ruck? If so, who cares about the number of push-ups needed to max a PT test.[/quote]They don't have to run as fast as the men. Would you say that's fair or wouldn't be a problem?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Son of Eire What if you go down and the only one nearby is a female soldier. How is she gonna drag that 200lb man plus 80lb kit to safety? How is she going to pull a man out of a burning tank?[/quote] She most likely wont.
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What if you go down and the only one nearby is a female soldier. How is she gonna drag that 200lb man plus 80lb kit to safety? How is she going to pull a man out of a burning tank?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote]This doesn't apply to every military out there.[/quote]Sure. Which military out there has the same PT standards for both male and female recruits?[/quote] Doesn't matter. The run is the same. Sure push-ups and sit-ups is at a lesser amount, but so what? Can they aim an M-4 or carry their ruck? If so, who cares about the number of push-ups needed to max a PT test.[/quote] It would, however, be reasonable to question the endurance abilities in carrying their ruck for an entire patrol (i.e 12 hours)
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote]This doesn't apply to every military out there.[/quote]Sure. Which military out there has the same PT standards for both male and female recruits?[/quote] Doesn't matter. The run is the same. Sure push-ups and sit-ups is at a lesser amount, but so what? Can they aim an M-4 or carry their ruck? If so, who cares about the number of push-ups needed to max a PT test.[/quote] Your view of the military is really vague.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] deltahalo UK Get off my back (for the second time in a day)[/quote]no idea what you're talking about :)
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] theHurtfulTurkey [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote]This doesn't apply to every military out there.[/quote]It applies to every branch in America. On the topic of PT standards, there's a bigger problem with the military using pushups and situps to judge fitness. [/quote] So bench presses and squats? What exactly should we use then?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote]This doesn't apply to every military out there.[/quote]Sure. Which military out there has the same PT standards for both male and female recruits?[/quote] Doesn't matter. The run is the same. Sure push-ups and sit-ups is at a lesser amount, but so what? Can they aim an M-4 or carry their ruck? If so, who cares about the number of push-ups needed to max a PT test.
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THIS THREAD IS STILL UP? HOW? Mods, wht r u doin?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote]This doesn't apply to every military out there.[/quote]Sure. Which military out there has the same PT standards for both male and female recruits? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] theHurtfulTurkey [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote]This doesn't apply to every military out there.[/quote]It applies to every branch in America. On the topic of PT standards, there's a bigger problem with the military using pushups and situps to judge fitness. [/quote]I agree. So do many recruiters even, believe it or not. [Edited on 11.30.2012 3:36 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote]This doesn't apply to every military out there.[/quote]It applies to every branch in America. On the topic of PT standards, there's a bigger problem with the military using pushups and situps to judge fitness.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote]This doesn't apply to every military out there.
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Because when you're in a life and death situation the last thing you want is for your entire squad to have that time of the month. /guess
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CamCamm [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] deltahalo UK [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Swagoth Ur A science that in this case is irrelavent. A women joining the military has to complete the same training courses and trials as a man, so your view of an 'adverage' woman doesn't really apply to those who get into the military. [/quote] Nop Women recruits get it easier* *If judging purely from numbers as they are granted considerations for their gender. Men and women don't do the same PT[/quote]They have the same PR just different standards, is what you meant. Women don't have to do the same amount push ups or run as fast, for example. [/quote] Same difficulty no doubt, different figures Get off my back (for the second time in a day)
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Because if men can go out and die for their country, then woman should be able to too. That's just the way it is in America. Anyways, warfare isn't all about who has the most strength, it's about which side can implement their strengths more strategically. It also has to do with tactics.
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Jeanne d' Arc
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Silent Breath From a physiology standpoint, it doesn't seem logical for them to be soldiers. They're not as strong as men and could contribute to more casualties and a waste of more resources that could be used on men. Also, I'm not sexist. Let's discuss this; I have an open mind.[/quote] As long as they can shoot-to-kill, then strength is unimportant as in war you're never really in hand-to-hand combat unlike Jet Li in the beginning of The Expendable 2 and also in the new rambo film whereby he slices open someone's throat and then rips out someone's with his finger nails.
