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#Halo
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switch 104 sv

switch 104 sv

11/26/2012 12:49:37 PM
I have to say I'm really enjoying having a weekly dose of new Halo stuff, particularly the cutscenes. Things to note: - Halsey considers [i]some[/i] of the IVs to be more Spartan-ish than others. Obviously she thinks Gabriel Thorne has potential. -Thorne doesn't seem to hate Halsey blindly and is more interested in finding out the facts and listening to her. -An unknown person/entity is contacting Halsey. -Roland is a pain in the ass and Palmer doesn't like his involvement with her ops. -Jul 'Mdama believes the Librarian is alive in a Cryptum. Or perhaps he mistook her durance/AI as her actual being? -The Didact's gift is supposed to "retrieve the Prometheans soul". Does this mean that the Didact wants Jul to use this to bring the Librarian back to life? Turn her into a monitor? Or attempt to make her organic again? (that went well last time they tried) Thoughts on this week's installment? [Edited on 11.26.2012 6:25 AM PST]

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    switch 104 sv

    switch 104 sv

    12/1/2012 2:10:20 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Also, Wort Wort Wort is cooler than pseudo-Japanese.[/quote] "Wor wort wort" is in Halo 4. I heard it in Spartan ops. It was nice to finally hear it back.
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    Chronarch

    Chronarch

    12/1/2012 1:20:22 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost They all tend to shoot at dead bodies for a long time.[/quote] Yes. They certainly bloody do! :P I was just replaying the level Infinity actually, got 4 Spartans on the Scorpion and instead of firing at the oncoming Wraith, they decided the dead Grunt was a much higher priority.
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    ZealotSG

    ZealotSG

    12/1/2012 1:11:18 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Also, Wort Wort Wort is cooler than pseudo-Japanese.[/quote]Even though I couldn't understand them, there was always a different remark from them. The Halo 4 Elites tend to repeat things they've already said.
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    ZealotSG

    ZealotSG

    12/1/2012 1:08:43 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost Just look at CE's AI. The marines berserked when they were about to die, the chain gunners threw their fists into the air when the Hog got decent height. All the base Covies sans Hunters tried to get the stuck plasma grenade off of them or responded to being stuck by a dozen needles. The Elites pointed, the Grunts and sword Elites stalked, the Grunts slept, the Hunters slept, and the AI would revert to casual patrols if the action died down. Halo 4 is probably the closest right now, but it's hindered by the lack of characterization. Elites ought to speak in English or translated so they don't look like a bunch of idiots. Marines need to speak more clearly and show a little more ferocity in combat (like the marine who blows himself and the Knight with a grenade).[/quote] I was wondering what felt 'off' about Halo 4's AI, and I think you just nailed it. They don't have personality, and adding to what you said it's also because of the small pool of animations - headshot a Sangheili and it will usually fall the same way, a charging Sangheili will always come at you with that same gait. Maybe it was the same in the other games, but post-CE the ragdoll physics made sure every enemy died differently and it did feel like the AI had more life. [/quote]Yep. This is especially noticeable when you shoot the Jackal in the gun arm. Yeah that's one good thing about the newer Halo games. Halo 4's death animation for the Elites is much more convincing than the twirling Brutes in Halo 3. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 CE's AI remains the best in the series IMO. As Sliding Ghost pointed out, they actually had [i]character[/i] to them. In the second mission when you're in the Warthog and emerge out the "not a natural formation" cave, there's a hill I [i]always[/i] speed over because it gives you a lot of height and the Marines start cheering as you land. A plasma grenade comes their way while on foot, they'll combat roll out the way to avoid being hit. Then when you stick enemies they'll start flailing around trying to pull the grenade off their doomed faces. They'll run blindly into a horde of their own ilk and make the job of cleaning up the latest wave of enemies a bit easier for me. It was truly great stuff. I've played through Halo 4's campaign about 4 times now and in the sections where you are with Marines or Spartan-IVs (both of which are pretty rare anyway), they demonstrate none of the characteristics they did in CE. Nor do the Covenant, and the Promethean-Knights are pretty dull as their cowardly AI takes over and teleports them out of danger, or delivers an overpowered lunge from half a mile away. If there's one major thing I can criticise Halo 4 for, it's that the AI have been very dumbed down.[/quote]Saving marines in CE was actually worthwhile. It doesn't even have to be a grenade. If the enemy shoots in their direction, they'll do their evasive maneuver. Same with Jackals. It was a marvelous gameplay mechanic. They're slightly better Reach marines really. The Spartan IVs have better firing range but that's about it. They all tend to shoot at dead bodies for a long time. Yep. I think the sword Elites have a more OP lunge.
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    Wolvers
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    Chronarch

    Chronarch

    11/30/2012 10:43:26 PM Permalink
    CE's AI remains the best in the series IMO. As Sliding Ghost pointed out, they actually had [i]character[/i] to them. In the second mission when you're in the Warthog and emerge out the "not a natural formation" cave, there's a hill I [i]always[/i] speed over because it gives you a lot of height and the Marines start cheering as you land. A plasma grenade comes their way while on foot, they'll combat roll out the way to avoid being hit. Then when you stick enemies they'll start flailing around trying to pull the grenade off their doomed faces. They'll run blindly into a horde of their own ilk and make the job of cleaning up the latest wave of enemies a bit easier for me. It was truly great stuff. I've played through Halo 4's campaign about 4 times now and in the sections where you are with Marines or Spartan-IVs (both of which are pretty rare anyway), they demonstrate none of the characteristics they did in CE. Nor do the Covenant, and the Promethean-Knights are pretty dull as their cowardly AI takes over and teleports them out of danger, or delivers an overpowered lunge from half a mile away. If there's one major thing I can criticise Halo 4 for, it's that the AI have been very dumbed down.
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    Wolvers

    Wolvers

    11/30/2012 10:21:35 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost Just look at CE's AI. The marines berserked when they were about to die, the chain gunners threw their fists into the air when the Hog got decent height. All the base Covies sans Hunters tried to get the stuck plasma grenade off of them or responded to being stuck by a dozen needles. The Elites pointed, the Grunts and sword Elites stalked, the Grunts slept, the Hunters slept, and the AI would revert to casual patrols if the action died down. Halo 4 is probably the closest right now, but it's hindered by the lack of characterization. Elites ought to speak in English or translated so they don't look like a bunch of idiots. Marines need to speak more clearly and show a little more ferocity in combat (like the marine who blows himself and the Knight with a grenade).[/quote] I was wondering what felt 'off' about Halo 4's AI, and I think you just nailed it. They don't have personality, and adding to what you said it's also because of the small pool of animations - headshot a Sangheili and it will usually fall the same way, a charging Sangheili will always come at you with that same gait. Maybe it was the same in the other games, but post-CE the ragdoll physics made sure every enemy died differently and it did feel like the AI had more life.
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    ZealotSG

    ZealotSG

    11/30/2012 7:10:37 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog If they kill Jul in Spartan Ops, after becoming the most developed and interesting character in the entire series after [i]Glasslands[/i] and [i]The Thursday War[/i], I will not be happy at all. But with the emphasis they're putting on him, I fear it's what they're going to do. Deep down, he's a good man. But he fears for his people, and with good reason too - ONI's got plans to commit genocide on their entire species. If I were in his shoes, I'd want humanity wiped out. I feel this conflict will resolve itself, though. And I want Jul alive to see that, and realise his errors. His character development arc has only just begun, and if they kill him now it'd be a terrible shame - a much, much bigger one than anything 343i has done with Halsey or ONI.[/quote]Agreed. He's become like Thel and Rtas in that he understands the gravity of a situation, though a bit misguided. [Edited on 11.30.2012 11:10 AM PST]
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    ZealotSG

    ZealotSG

    11/30/2012 7:08:53 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost Halo 4 could have been an opportunity to give the General rank more depth (not to mention design unique AI for it) [/quote] The problem is, they neither have distinctly unique armors, or distinctly unique colors (If they do, they blend together for me). So I only know that it's a general if it has a fuel rod and a yellow tint. The minors, zealots, and officers blend together (unless I'm scoped, then the officers I can pick out) and I've hardly seen any real color difference. I'd personally like if it either the colors or designs were visually distinct so we could spot-see an elite and go "Oh crap, that's a zealot." or "Eh, minor. no big deal." edit: Ah, unique AI. Well, I recall they said the AI would actively pursue/flush us from cover... the most I've gotten was elites with swords charging me. In episode 4 there was a cluster of elites (two with fuel rods) who simply never advanced forward. Even if I popped from cover and then retreated. :/.[/quote]Agreed, the colors are lackluster. It feels so scripted. Actively pursuing with fast running feet was not what I had in mind. Most Spartan Ops maps were already on the disc so 343 seems to have rushed these episodes out (given the tiny Covies, the enemies being spawned/ending up outside of the map, some AI not doing anything, etc.). [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost[/quote]Yes! That's one of the points with Halo isn't it; to take the A.I a step further, every time one has the chance. The better A.I the enemies have, the more interesting encounters one can have, within the same gameplay mechanics. Not going that direction is what stagnates gameplay for me. The pinnacle would be if a boss battle wasn't a scripted event, but something that could happen in-game, just cause of the A.I.[/quote]Exactly. I hated Tartarus and Regret in Halo 2, but they had something else to offer. You weren't forced into the fights. Regret in particular wasn't presented as a boss battle but it naturally became that way when you realized your rockets didn't work on him... The Tartarus fight has many glitches that make it replayable and if it weren't for the level design, I'd be playing that often. The Heretic leader, 343 Guilty Spark, and Didact were some of the most disappointing bosses. The former lacked cover and freedom respectively while the latter felt like it was rushed. I find it interesting that the grav lift to go back onto the hardlight bridge is still functioning. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka I agree btw, [i]personality[/i] in the battlefield helps increase how engaged one is, and it allows for more strategy.[/quote]Agreed. Just look at CE's AI. The marines berserked when they were about to die, the chain gunners threw their fists into the air when the Hog got decent height. All the base Covies sans Hunters tried to get the stuck plasma grenade off of them or responded to being stuck by a dozen needles. The Elites pointed, the Grunts and sword Elites stalked, the Grunts slept, the Hunters slept, and the AI would revert to casual patrols if the action died down. Halo 4 is probably the closest right now, but it's hindered by the lack of characterization. Elites ought to speak in English or translated so they don't look like a bunch of idiots. Marines need to speak more clearly and show a little more ferocity in combat (like the marine who blows himself and the Knight with a grenade).
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    MendicantBill

    MendicantBill

    11/30/2012 9:11:59 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gottalovec4 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] switch 104 sv [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 I'm pretty sure it's the Librarian, and I have to say I -blam!- love the way the story is developing. Jen is getting some really great material as Halsey, and, as usual, is giving a stellar performance throughout. [b]Nice to see that the Spartan-IVs aren't being wasted as actual characters too.[/b][/quote] Yeah they could have easily been throwaways but I think they are being handled well.[/quote] This. And I appreciate that 343i hasn't turned them all into hilarious Mary Sue characters with no faults, they are in fact regular soldiers made to be Spartans. It's really noticeable when Thorne says he was in the Army before joining the Spartans. First time we've heard of the Army in the UNSC being actively involved, rather than the Marines and Navy. [/quote]The UNSC soldiers in Reach were Army.
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    Jump Into Hell

    Jump Into Hell

    11/30/2012 9:09:09 AM Permalink
    Jul needs to stay. He's a very good "bad guy". His motives and character have been fleshed out extremely well. It shows that Sangheili aren't just dumb bipedals going "Human bad. We kill", but an interesting, multi-faceted people. He makes us sympathise with Sanghelios and see them not as faceless killing machines, but a people struggling to survive. I will be extremely disappointed if he's killed off in Spartan Ops.
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    Budgetgravy

    Budgetgravy

    11/30/2012 9:03:38 AM Permalink
    Omg Didact's Hand is hilariously fun with all the rocket launchers and sniper rifles. 88 kills is my record with 4 people in matchmaking not bad
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    ArtooFeva

    ArtooFeva

    11/30/2012 8:52:40 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Plasma Prestige My biggest problem with SOPS still is that the missions don't fit with the episode very well. I would like missions that had objectives that both connected with the cutscene and seemed to be important. SOPS has so far delivered some great episodes, and even some fun gameplay, but it lacks greatly in cohesion. [/quote]This is true. There should at least be missions where you're helping out Majestic Squad and contributing to their objectives.
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    Gottalovec4

    Gottalovec4

    11/27/2012 10:15:14 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] switch 104 sv [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 I'm pretty sure it's the Librarian, and I have to say I -blam!- love the way the story is developing. Jen is getting some really great material as Halsey, and, as usual, is giving a stellar performance throughout. [b]Nice to see that the Spartan-IVs aren't being wasted as actual characters too.[/b][/quote] Yeah they could have easily been throwaways but I think they are being handled well.[/quote] This. And I appreciate that 343i hasn't turned them all into hilarious Mary Sue characters with no faults, they are in fact regular soldiers made to be Spartans. It's really noticeable when Thorne says he was in the Army before joining the Spartans. First time we've heard of the Army in the UNSC being actively involved, rather than the Marines and Navy.
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    Dounut520

    Dounut520

    11/27/2012 8:54:31 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron I'm going to laugh really hard if the Librarian comes out and goes "Humanity are reclaimers, stop hating them." and seeing the Elite's reactions :P.[/quote]Conflict resolved by logic and negotiation; that would be refreshing. I imagine the Elites suddely entering idle mode, like the horde of Smiths' did when Neo left.. *awkward pause* [i]Wort, now?[/i] *end scene*[/quote] I'd picture an awkward silence, then suddenly a fight as you got Jul/his pals vs the Elites going "Forerunner has spoken, no going against that." and all.[/quote]It'd be like one of those classic bar fight scenes. Chief's got Jul's head in an arm lock and then the Librarian sways open the doors and tries to be all wise and whatever *moment of silence* A Grunt drops a grenade or something, and then they're back at it. I'm more and more looking forward a non-canonical comedy version. Spartan [i]Ops...[/i] OT: wonder if Jul will be in-game, or if he'll be killed in a cutscene?[/quote] I don't think it'd be good for the story if Jul M'dama was killed off in Spartan Ops. I think they should actually include him in a campaign for another Halo game before he gets killed. He could fit that dark villain very well in Halo V...
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    11/27/2012 8:23:05 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost[/quote]Yes! That's one of the points with Halo isn't it; to take the A.I a step further, every time one has the chance. The better A.I the enemies have, the more interesting encounters one can have, within the same gameplay mechanics. Not going that direction is what stagnates gameplay for me. The pinnacle would be if a boss battle wasn't a scripted event, but something that could happen in-game, just cause of the A.I.[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron The problem is, they neither have distinctly unique armors, or distinctly unique colors (If they do, they blend together for me). So I only know that it's a general if it has a fuel rod and a yellow tint. The minors, zealots, and officers blend together (unless I'm scoped, then the officers I can pick out) and I've hardly seen any real color difference. I'd personally like if it either the colors or designs were visually distinct so we could spot-see an elite and go "Oh crap, that's a zealot." or "Eh, minor. no big deal."[/quote]You mean like CE, 2, 3, ODST, and Reach? I'm sure you didn't mean to, but the way you phrased it made it seem like you suggested something new; a solution for the problem. :P I agree btw, [i]personality[/i] in the battlefield helps increase how engaged one is, and it allows for more strategy.
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    Cmdr DaeFaron

    Cmdr DaeFaron

    11/27/2012 7:23:50 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost Halo 4 could have been an opportunity to give the General rank more depth (not to mention design unique AI for it) [/quote] The problem is, they neither have distinctly unique armors, or distinctly unique colors (If they do, they blend together for me). So I only know that it's a general if it has a fuel rod and a yellow tint. The minors, zealots, and officers blend together (unless I'm scoped, then the officers I can pick out) and I've hardly seen any real color difference. I'd personally like if it either the colors or designs were visually distinct so we could spot-see an elite and go "Oh crap, that's a zealot." or "Eh, minor. no big deal." edit: Ah, unique AI. Well, I recall they said the AI would actively pursue/flush us from cover... the most I've gotten was elites with swords charging me. In episode 4 there was a cluster of elites (two with fuel rods) who simply never advanced forward. Even if I popped from cover and then retreated. :/. [Edited on 11.27.2012 11:25 AM PST]
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    Plasma Prestige

    Plasma Prestige

    11/27/2012 6:50:14 PM Permalink
    My biggest problem with SOPS still is that the missions don't fit with the episode very well. I would like missions that had objectives that both connected with the cutscene and seemed to be important. SOPS has so far delivered some great episodes, and even some fun gameplay, but it lacks greatly in cohesion.
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    FTW 1997

    FTW 1997

    11/27/2012 6:25:31 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog If they kill Jul in Spartan Ops, after becoming the most developed and interesting character in the entire series after [i]Glasslands[/i] and [i]The Thursday War[/i], I will not be happy at all. But with the emphasis they're putting on him, I fear it's what they're going to do. Deep down, he's a good man. But he fears for his people, and with good reason too - ONI's got plans to commit genocide on their entire species. If I were in his shoes, I'd want humanity wiped out. I feel this conflict will resolve itself, though. And I want Jul alive to see that, and realise his errors. His character development arc has only just begun, and if they kill him now it'd be a terrible shame - a much, much bigger one than anything 343i has done with Halsey or ONI.[/quote] I totally agree, he just needs to realize his errors. But i doubt that oni will let him live after his agression towards humans and after his escape from onyx.
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    Wolvers

    Wolvers

    11/27/2012 2:07:47 PM Permalink
    If they kill Jul in Spartan Ops, after becoming the most developed and interesting character in the entire series after [i]Glasslands[/i] and [i]The Thursday War[/i], I will not be happy at all. But with the emphasis they're putting on him, I fear it's what they're going to do. Deep down, he's a good man. But he fears for his people, and with good reason too - ONI's got plans to commit genocide on their entire species. If I were in his shoes, I'd want humanity wiped out. I feel this conflict will resolve itself, though. And I want Jul alive to see that, and realise his errors. His character development arc has only just begun, and if they kill him now it'd be a terrible shame - a much, much bigger one than anything 343i has done with Halsey or ONI.
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    ZealotSG

    ZealotSG

    11/27/2012 9:18:14 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka OT: wonder if Jul will be in-game, or if he'll be killed in a cutscene?[/quote]Knowing 343, it will be horribly done if in-game. Their last mini-bosses were barely fleshed out Generals with fuel rod guns. @_@ Halo 4 could have been an opportunity to give the General rank more depth (not to mention design unique AI for it) but like Reach*, it fails so hard in integrating them into canon** and making them interesting**. AT first I was excited about Thunderstorm skull's unique upgrade but now I think it'd have been better to upgrade every Elite to Zealot since there would be more variety (some Elites cloak). Halo 2 Thunderstorm had it right: most Elites become capable of pulling out swords All 343 would do is give Jul an assortment of power weapons and make him behave like any other Elite. I doubt they'd give him a Sangheili point defense gauntlet or make him dual wield guns or swords or make him do anything unique. Cutscene would be better. But if it were gameplay, I hope it's sandbox like the fight with Regret and Tartarus. You could stay out of the bosses' reach and take a break. You could glitch the battles for amusing results (knock Regret out of his seat, plant a grenade into him, have Keyes distract Tartarus, clone Johnson, Elite army). *They were never mentioned, there was not one marked as a high priority target, they never appear in Noble Six's death cutscene despite making prominent appearances before it, and instead of Zealots appearing as the last waves on Lone Wolf, it was all Generals, despite the fact that Zealots were fought on the prior level and there'd have been a ton more given the situation **a couple of names, some mentions, and a waypoint over their heads don't convince me of their value. They felt like your average disposable minion. Look at Sesa Refumee. He had how many cutscene appearances? I was sure this guy was no ordinary Heretic. Even the Zealot on ToTS felt significant in that I had to pursue him. [Edited on 11.27.2012 1:33 AM PST]
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    ZealotSG

    ZealotSG

    11/27/2012 9:09:27 AM Permalink
    I wish 343 would put in subtitles so I didn't have to skip the episodes (the web player's doesn't work while watching on the console doesn't provide any option). [Edited on 11.27.2012 1:12 AM PST]
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    Gamma617g

    Gamma617g

    11/27/2012 6:54:08 AM Permalink
    The only single thing I like about Spartan Ops, (storywise, I think it's pretty fun) is the inclusion of Halsey. Sometimes I even hate my own Spartan.
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    Sarge

    Sarge

    11/27/2012 5:49:11 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Aang the Avatar The missions are getting much better. Last week was a blast with the Mantises, this week is the best so far. I think they really are getting better each time. Story is interesting like always. [/quote]
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    Sweet Rolls 77

    Sweet Rolls 77

    11/27/2012 4:43:13 AM Permalink
    I'd really enjoy it if we could see the "cute alien squids" working alongside scientists on the infinity. [Edited on 11.26.2012 8:43 PM PST]
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    switch 104 sv

    switch 104 sv

    11/27/2012 2:21:38 AM Permalink
    [quote] OT: wonder if Jul will be in-game, or if he'll be killed in a cutscene?[/quote] I'd refer cutscene. Maybe Thorne taking him down like a badass, cliche as it would be. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 I'm also wondering how this whole thing with Jul will play out, there's still 6 weeks left of Season One and I don't think we'll just be fighting Prometheans for that time.[/quote] I/m not sure how 343i will go about it. But one thing I like so far is the way they tie in the novels with Spartan Ops, like how Jul was forced to wear an explosive body harness by human scientists and now he is forcing a human scientist to wear one. Also, the language barrier and how he can speak a bit of English. The whole reverse roles thing is well done and maybe a subtle nod to fans of the extended universe.
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