Where's And I'm Here Too when you need him?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AnubissWarior As much as i remember, John killed 4 ODSTs while he was only a boy. Yes they did sneak into spartan training ground and picked up on him, but he did not have to kill fellow humans. [/quote] As far as I was aware they were on a ship (or in a base) and it happened in a gym. One of the ODST's tried to weight lift but the weights fell off at one end.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheSpiderChief [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AnubissWarior As much as i remember, John killed 4 ODSTs while he was only a boy. Yes they did sneak into spartan training ground and picked up on him, but he did not have to kill fellow humans. [/quote] As far as I was aware they were on a ship (or in a base) and it happened in a gym. One of the ODST's tried to weight lift but the weights fell off at one end.[/quote] It was also a total accident, seeing as he didn't know his own strength.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheSpiderChief [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AnubissWarior As much as i remember, John killed 4 ODSTs while he was only a boy. Yes they did sneak into spartan training ground and picked up on him, but he did not have to kill fellow humans. [/quote] As far as I was aware they were on a ship (or in a base) and it happened in a gym. One of the ODST's tried to weight lift but the weights fell off at one end.[/quote] It was also a total accident, seeing as he didn't know his own strength.[/quote] Yeah it was, Then they let them fight John, but they didn't know he would do that.

maybe it is

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MongotheRed Where's And I'm Here Too when you need him?[/quote] The same place where your interpunction is.

He killed 2 and injured 2. It was an accident and it was not his fault. The ODST's Sergeant ordered a boxing match because John accidentally let a heavy weight fall on an ODST's foot.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] KaneXX12 He killed 2 and injured 2. It was an accident and it was not his fault. The ODST's Sergeant ordered a boxing match because John accidentally let a heavy weight fall on an ODST's foot.[/quote] And that is quite similar in fact to the Spartan Program. ONI came up with the idea for it and a general outline for the project, and they picked Halsey to run it. The Spartan II Program is not Halsey's doing or her fault anymore than the ODST example is Chief's fault.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] KaneXX12 He killed 2 and injured 2. It was an accident and it was not his fault. The ODST's Sergeant ordered a boxing match because John accidentally let a heavy weight fall on an ODST's foot.[/quote] And that is quite similar in fact to the Spartan Program. ONI came up with the idea for it and a general outline for the project, and they picked Halsey to run it. The Spartan II Program is not Halsey's doing or her fault anymore than the ODST example is Chief's fault.[/quote]Halsley knew what she was doing as soon as she got into the project. She knew beforehand because she had to be informed. She accepted it, responsibility and all. John in this case, I think took it too far. I'm a bit rusty with this incident, but I don't think John killed any of them in one hit. He could have stopped before hand... Couldn't he? Maybe knock them out, but not kill the two? Master Chief is a pretty cool guy who kills aliens and doesn't afraid of anything... But like most of us, he's made mistakes as well. It's what makes him human I think. [Edited on 11.21.2012 9:42 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MongotheRed Where's And I'm Here Too when you need him?[/quote] I'm more concerned with how utterly [i]boring[/i] John is, at least up until Halo 4. You could replace him with a gravelly-voiced brick and the game wouldn't change much. Also, the fact that he's fanwanked in vs threads every. Single. Time. (Beating [i]Iron Man[/i]? Seriously?)

When 117 fought injured and killed the ODSTs it was soon after the augmentations. He was in a gym that had different gravity at either end. Because of the augmentations normal gravity at one end didn't feel right to him and he wanted to test it using a pin from one of the weight sets. When the ODSTs came in they started their workout until a loose weight fell. They blamed John and their CO allowed a fight in the ring. John not knowing his strength and with moves that the ODSTs might never have seen killed them and badly injured the others. During the fight John probably thought he was giving black eyes, broken noses, and KOs not skull cave ins and lacerated organs.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] And Im Here Too I'm more concerned with how utterly [i]boring[/i] John is, at least up until Halo 4.[/quote] Agreed. The most interesting he got pre-Halo 4 was his development in the novels where things are revealed like how he's absolutely terrified of the Flood, it was the closest he got to actually being a character, but Halo CE-3 retained that bullshyte claim that you should project yourself into the character. In a sci-fi universe as large as Halo's where the story revolves around this one guy who does all the important stuff, you [i]can't[/i] retain that backwards mentality with a protagonist.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] And Im Here Too I'm more concerned with how utterly [i]boring[/i] John is, at least up until Halo 4.[/quote] Agreed. The most interesting he got pre-Halo 4 was his development in the novels where things are revealed like how he's absolutely terrified of the Flood, it was the closest he got to actually being a character, but Halo CE-3 retained that bullshyte claim that you should project yourself into the character. In a sci-fi universe as large as Halo's where the story revolves around this one guy who does all the important stuff, you [i]can't[/i] retain that backwards mentality with a protagonist.[/quote]I could go on about how one shouldn't change these sort of things just because some people prefere it another way, [b]but instead I'll ask you guys this:[/b] why allow [i]an official statement[/i] to ruin your experience of a character? Who cares if Bungie have said that he's supposed to be someone one can project oneself onto, he works perfectly fine as a character even if that statement is removed. What if he simply was a character that didn't open his mouth everytime something happened, or remained relatively plain? Being simple is a character trait too, not all characters have to be super colourfull, and go on about emotions and whatever will they have, reveal exactly what they feel, or do they? He might be [i]boring[/i], but at least he wasn't directly unlikeable. What if he had strong opinions that you didn't agree with? He's the main character, he's always there, so the more personality one gives him, the bigger the chance is that someone will dislike him, and by extension like the game less. There are many who like how little he says and how little personal attitude he spews out. Throughout CE, 2, and 3, John remained a character that allowed the player to imagine what he might be thinking and feeling, and only give a small glimpse of who he is now and then, in order to gradually narrow down who he is. He was buildt up by a graspable amount of shards, opposed to a cascade where most of it simply would go over most players heads. Although it seems that the subtle nuances that defined him did so too... But no, [i]I want it all, I want it now[/i], is what people seem to be implying. [i]I cant wait an entire trilogy for him to reveal yet another portion of his persona, I want it all to be exhibited all the time and always.[/i] [b]Second question[/b]: Who is he supposed to be anyway, what is he supposed to become, why does he have to [i]develope[/i]? All this talk about character development, and I never see anything about what Chief is supposed to be/become in order to further enhance the rest of the narrative. Is he supposed to grow into a someone who leads the opposition agaist the Precursors? What kind of a figure is he supposed to be/become? [b]Also, bear in mind that having someone talk all the time/comment on everything in a first person shooter is annoying. Just having a super strong personality present all the time can also be incredibly intrusive[/b] I liked how he was, who he was, and how he was portrayed; how often one got some more information of who he was (it felt like a reward for being vigilant).

Well I didn't really like it when he was so quiet you'd forget he was onscreen if it wasn't for the fact he was so big. I mean I don't want to be Master Chief that's not why I enjoy Halo. Whatever he is as a character it shouldn't exist to be something for other to project onto.

I love how this Master-Cheif of Halo 1-3 hate is suddenly dominant now that you got a self-pity, unable to do what he says, chief. The new Chief is full of crap, but that must just be character development. Which we should all just love because I guess that's 343i is doing [i]something[/i] *cough cough. [Edited on 11.22.2012 12:20 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen I love how this Master-Cheif of Halo 1-3 hate is suddenly dominant now that you got a self-pity, unable to do what he says, chief.[/quote] Seems to be the trend just now, to hate on the prior fiction that one was supposedly a fan of, and denigrate it as inferior, just because it doesn't line up with 343i's opinions on how the lore should look and [b]should have looked[/b].

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] anton1792 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen I love how this Master-Cheif of Halo 1-3 hate is suddenly dominant now that you got a self-pity, unable to do what he says, chief.[/quote] Seems to be the trend just now, to hate on the prior fiction that one was supposedly a fan of, and denigrate it as inferior, just because it doesn't line up with 343i's opinions on how the lore should look and [b]should have looked[/b].[/quote] Reminds me of that halo bashing idiot who praised the playstation. Liked halo. ODST came out and he hated it (I think for the reason he did no -blam!- research on it). Suddenly ALL older stuff is bull-blam!- and retarded. :P [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen I love how this Master-Cheif of Halo 1-3 hate is suddenly dominant now that you got a self-pity, unable to do what he says, chief. The new Chief is full of crap, but that must just be character development. Which we should all just love because I guess that's 343i is doing [i]something[/i] *cough cough.[/quote] Just curious what you mean with that. I'd need more information before I agree or disagree :P.

John killed them whilst under orders to fight. If anyone would get in trouble for that, it'd be the officer.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] KaneXX12 He killed 2 and injured 2. It was an accident and it was not his fault. The ODST's Sergeant ordered a boxing match because John accidentally let a heavy weight fall on an ODST's foot.[/quote] And that is quite similar in fact to the Spartan Program. ONI came up with the idea for it and a general outline for the project, and they picked Halsey to run it. The Spartan II Program is not Halsey's doing or her fault anymore than the ODST example is Chief's fault.[/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen I love how this Master-Cheif of Halo 1-3 hate is suddenly dominant now that you got a self-pity, unable to do what he says, chief. The new Chief is full of crap, but that must just be character development. Which we should all just love because I guess that's 343i is doing [i]something[/i] *cough cough.[/quote]I found that 343i's chief was very consistent to how he has always been in terms of personality. he still rarely expresses emotions, has complete confidence in his abilities, and holds his duty to humanity above all else. Apart from saving Cortana, Chief did everything that he said he would do, and was prepared to die to accomplish it with no hesitation. He had no self-pity, not even when he primed a nuke in his hands and set it off. He did, however care deeply for Cortana, one of the only people he has left. He was for the first time ever, unable to fulfill his promise, and he had to watch someone he loved die as a result. He is a human being, despite the armor and stoicism, and I feel like he himself, as well as the player gets to see this for the first time in Halo 4. [Edited on 11.22.2012 7:35 PM PST]

I think what we need to accept at this point is that Halsey is not being persecuted because she was responsible for any work that was more morally unacceptable than ONI's, but rather that she is a convenient scapegoat for an obvious human ethics disaster that the agency needs to address post-war. I don't like the direction that 343i is going with Halsey, but if they have a method to their madness (i.e., they do something with it) it can pay off.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog John killed them whilst under orders to fight. If anyone would get in trouble for that, it'd be the officer. [/quote] Also the fact (while not publicly known) it did literally shake Chief up for a while.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 Halsley knew what she was doing as soon as she got into the project. She knew beforehand because she had to be informed. She accepted it, responsibility and all. John in this case, I think took it too far. I'm a bit rusty with this incident, but I don't think John killed any of them in one hit. He could have stopped before hand... Couldn't he? Maybe knock them out, but not kill the two? Master Chief is a pretty cool guy who kills aliens and doesn't afraid of anything... But like most of us, he's made mistakes as well. It's what makes him human I think.[/quote] So did Chief, he knew he was getting into a fight, so he fought. And the guy in command of the ODSTs more or less ordered them all to fight, that's mainly what I'm drawing connection with. It's silly to blame Chief for their deaths as the fight was not his idea just as saying everything is Halsey's fault and acting as if it's something she came up with and did on her own...the latter is especially silly if one acts like it was done for nothing more than -blam!-s and giggles.

four, i thought it was two? sorry ignore just read posts above me. [Edited on 11.23.2012 12:10 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen I love how this Master-Cheif of Halo 1-3 hate is suddenly dominant now that you got a self-pity, unable to do what he says, chief. The new Chief is full of crap, but that must just be character development. Which we should all just love because I guess that's 343i is doing [i]something[/i] *cough cough.[/quote]I found that 343i's chief was very consistent to how he has always been in terms of personality. he still rarely expresses emotions, has complete confidence in his abilities, and holds his duty to humanity above all else. Apart from saving Cortana, Chief did everything that he said he would do, and was prepared to die to accomplish it with no hesitation. He had no self-pity, not even when he primed a nuke in his hands and set it off. He did, however care deeply for Cortana, one of the only people he has left. He was for the first time ever, unable to fulfill his promise, and he had to watch someone he loved die as a result. He is a human being, despite the armor and stoicism, and I feel like he himself, as well as the player gets to see this for the first time in Halo 4.[/quote] it seems to me that chief is really... dumb in halo four. He is confused way too often, and he has seemingly no concept of whats going on, its disappointing.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] modernarcher13 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen I love how this Master-Cheif of Halo 1-3 hate is suddenly dominant now that you got a self-pity, unable to do what he says, chief. The new Chief is full of crap, but that must just be character development. Which we should all just love because I guess that's 343i is doing [i]something[/i] *cough cough.[/quote]I found that 343i's chief was very consistent to how he has always been in terms of personality. he still rarely expresses emotions, has complete confidence in his abilities, and holds his duty to humanity above all else. Apart from saving Cortana, Chief did everything that he said he would do, and was prepared to die to accomplish it with no hesitation. He had no self-pity, not even when he primed a nuke in his hands and set it off. He did, however care deeply for Cortana, one of the only people he has left. He was for the first time ever, unable to fulfill his promise, and he had to watch someone he loved die as a result. He is a human being, despite the armor and stoicism, and I feel like he himself, as well as the player gets to see this for the first time in Halo 4.[/quote] it seems to me that chief is really... dumb in halo four. He is confused way too often, and he has seemingly no concept of whats going on, its disappointing.[/quote]how so? He doesn't have access to the forerunner books or terminals. He has no way of completely understanding what is going on. He understands enough though, more than a lot of players seem to understand.