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Paragon Fury

Paragon Fury

11/8/2012 6:47:11 PM
So while mulling over the "new" universe a bit today, I came to the conclusion that I much preferred the pre-343i universe and story to the new one 343i has created. What I mean by that is that the universe/canon of Halo was in a pretty good place with Halo 3. It was coherent and followed a sensible story line and chain of events and was firmly in the realm of science fiction. We knew just enough to keep us satisfied, but with enough mystery to keep us interested. But then with the Forerunner books and new trilogy, 343i not has taken a lot of that mystery away, but answered and warped it in silly ways and pushed the series fairly close to the realm of "science fantasy". The Flood [i]used[/i] to be this terrifying enemy with no remorse, no purpose and no reason for existing other than to consume. It was a "natural" organism that existed to consume other organic life. It was terrifying for precisely the fact that it had no goals. It just ate things. Now? Now its some kind of engineered organism designed to "test" humanity and the Forerunners for some kind of divine purpose. The horror of it consuming without purpose is lost when you know now it actually HAS a purpose.....and the purpose is kind of cheesy and lame to boot. And Humanity? Oh, well, we just kind of have existed for 100's of thousands of years and fought a war with the Forerunners and fought them to a standstill until the Flood overwhelmed us with their genetically programmed divine "purpose". Oh, and the Forerunners? Instead of being this just highly technology advanced race that tried to save all the undeveloped species from the horrors of the Flood at the expense of their civilization, instead they're self-centered asshats who think they're basically gods and lord over the lesser species, and only saved them because the one Forerunner who [i]wasn't[/i] an ass was the wife of the most powerful Forerunner and made them save the lesser species. And they weren't just technologically advanced - they were apparently capable of MAGIC as well, genetically reprogramming species on the spot, putting pre-determined fates and "guides" into species and just generally doing magical space hocus-pocus rather than the at least somewhat grounded sci-fi species they originally were up to by Halo 3. I think that last part is what cheeses me off most about the new universe; how the Librarian basically goes and says "Yeah, everything that you and humanity has accomplished and ever done was because I instructed you to through magic genetic manipulation. You're welcome". Because that is how you make the player and the characters feel good about themselves. That everything was "destiny".

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    Wolvers

    Wolvers

    11/10/2012 2:25:12 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xd00999 I agree with you, Anton. The Forerunners felt different, somehow. Like these places weren't made by the same people who made the Ark or the Halos. I'm not sure what it is, but I think it is all the anti-gravity with large portions of the structures hovering for no discernible reason. Looking at previous Halos, I don't think I remember seeing a single structure that was just floating. Everything was grounded and immobile. In Halo 4, everything is floating, shifting, and changing. [/quote][/quote] In previous Halo games, the Forerunners are dead and their monuments reflect that. In [i]Halo 4[/i], they're alive and the architecture is alive too.
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    Macharius

    Macharius

    11/10/2012 2:03:40 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] switch 104 sv [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xd00999 I agree with you, Anton. The Forerunners felt different, somehow. Like these places weren't made by the same people who made the Ark or the Halos. I'm not sure what it is, but I think it is all the anti-gravity with large portions of the structures hovering for no discernible reason. Looking at previous Halos, I don't think I remember seeing a single structure that was just floating. Everything was grounded and immobile. In Halo 4, everything is floating, shifting, and changing. [/quote] Halo Wars had floating platforms in the Shield World. And the shifting, changing and floating architecture isn't new, it's well described in Greg Bear's books. Forerunner buildings and ships could be manipulated at will in Cryptum so it's not a new feature. [/quote] Yes, but 4 is much more in your face about it. Wars may have had floating platforms but they were often out of view because of the way the game was played. Cryptum didn't have a visual component to it and I always pictured the structures like they were in the previous games. The Forerunners don't feel the same.
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    switch 104 sv

    switch 104 sv

    11/10/2012 12:34:18 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xd00999 I agree with you, Anton. The Forerunners felt different, somehow. Like these places weren't made by the same people who made the Ark or the Halos. I'm not sure what it is, but I think it is all the anti-gravity with large portions of the structures hovering for no discernible reason. Looking at previous Halos, I don't think I remember seeing a single structure that was just floating. Everything was grounded and immobile. In Halo 4, everything is floating, shifting, and changing. [/quote] Halo Wars had floating platforms in the Shield World. And the shifting, changing and floating architecture isn't new, it's well described in Greg Bear's books. Forerunner buildings and ships could be manipulated at will in Cryptum so it's not a new feature. @anton Although I understand where you are coming from in terms of the score to be honest alot of the themes from the original trilogy were in there, albeit secondary themes and motifs. They were hidden or developed versions but this compliments the new trilogy and the story's progression. [Edited on 11.09.2012 4:37 PM PST]
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    Macharius

    Macharius

    11/9/2012 6:59:02 PM Permalink
    I agree with you, Anton. The Forerunners felt different, somehow. Like these places weren't made by the same people who made the Ark or the Halos. I'm not sure what it is, but I think it is all the anti-gravity with large portions of the structures hovering for no discernible reason. Looking at previous Halos, I don't think I remember seeing a single structure that was just floating. Everything was grounded and immobile. In Halo 4, everything is floating, shifting, and changing.
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    anton1792

    anton1792

    11/9/2012 6:12:54 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Paragon Fury But then with the Forerunner books and new trilogy, 343i not has taken a lot of that mystery away, but answered and warped it in silly ways and pushed the series fairly close to the realm of "science fantasy".[/quote] I didn't think that the mystery element was all the reasoning needed to detract Bear's books. However now having actually played a Halo game after reading them I think it may have impacted the Halo feeling more than I thought it would have. When I played Halo 4, I felt something was missing. I'm not actually sure if this is what it was - I think the new music and lack of the resonating and familiar Halo themes was a huge factor - but something definitely wasn't there when I compare it to games like Halo 2 and CE that I have both replayed to death over the years. I think it may be a combination of such things really. The royal "-blam!- you" that the Covenant got in almost every single aspect from aesthetics to backstory to character and personality is another big one too. Not so much as a single line of exposition was given to their new antagonism which was unbefitting in light of the transitions made in the past trilogy. That being said, it is the only aspect of the game that I didn't like. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Paragon Fury The Flood [i]used[/i] to be this terrifying enemy with no remorse, no purpose and no reason for existing other than to consume. It was a "natural" organism that existed to consume other organic life. It was terrifying for precisely the fact that it had no goals. It just ate things.[/quote] From its perspective that can still be true. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Paragon Fury they were apparently capable of MAGIC as well, genetically reprogramming species on the spot, putting pre-determined fates and "guides" into species and just generally doing magical space hocus-pocus rather than the at least somewhat grounded sci-fi species they originally were up to by Halo 3.[/quote] The Forerunners have never been well grounded in current reality. Take something as simple as the Gas Mine from Halo 2. See that cable it's hanging from? Or what about those Halos that can selectively kill targets based on biomass and level of cognitive development over a 25'000 light year raduis almost instantaneously? See that Keyship that totally withstood several nukes and MAC strikes to its bare hull? The Geas is to biology what the Gas Mine cable is to materials science; what the Halos and hard light bridges are to modern physics. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Paragon Fury how the Librarian basically goes and says "Yeah, everything that you and humanity has accomplished and ever done was because I instructed you to through magic genetic manipulation. You're welcome".[/quote] Did she literally hand the answers to Humanity or was it merely a boost in confidence and inspiration? No matter how brilliant your cognitive and creative abilities may be, they will go to waste if there is no motivation. I'm not sure about this myself to be honest, but I think there's a difference.
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    Gamer Whale

    Gamer Whale

    11/9/2012 3:08:26 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JetpackRaccoon [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Paragon Fury ...they were apparently capable of MAGIC as well, genetically reprogramming species on the spot...[/quote] have you ever seen what a [url=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4_oTAxX4Onc/RtQ7PKcFWdI/AAAAAAAAAmo/BuvQ_foMP4s/s400/796px-Inside_a_wild-type_banana.jpg]natural banana[/url] looks like, op? BURN THE WITCH!! >:O[/quote]That hardly counts as "on the spot"...
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    JetpackRaccoon

    JetpackRaccoon

    11/9/2012 2:54:46 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Paragon Fury ...they were apparently capable of MAGIC as well, genetically reprogramming species on the spot...[/quote] have you ever seen what a [url=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4_oTAxX4Onc/RtQ7PKcFWdI/AAAAAAAAAmo/BuvQ_foMP4s/s400/796px-Inside_a_wild-type_banana.jpg]natural banana[/url] looks like, op? BURN THE WITCH!! >:O
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    nemesishunter7

    nemesishunter7

    11/8/2012 10:25:32 PM Permalink
    It's the destiny stuff and midichlorians that pisses me off. There's a difference between homage and ripping off. Why no mention of Mendicant or Offensive Bias? What is the Assembly and how does it relate to the Librarian? Why did Cryptum make the Didact seem to respect humans and not hate them intensely like Halo 4? If Cortana, Chief's Ancilla, was vital to the Librarian's plan, why kill her off like that? Yes, old unknown is better. It almost seems like Halo 4 was contradicting their own books and EU.
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    11/8/2012 9:30:53 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Paragon Fury The Flood [i]used[/i] to be this terrifying enemy with no remorse, no purpose and no reason for existing other than to consume. It was a "natural" organism that existed to consume other organic life. It was terrifying for precisely the fact that it had no goals. It just ate things.[/quote]This is not exactly true. Read [i]The Thunder and Surf[/i] over at [url=http://blog.ascendantjustice.com/halo-3/the-terminals/]Acendant Justice[/url], and you'll see that there's a little more to it. The Flood may be an antithesis of [i]our[/i] type of life, but it is still a type of life.
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    switch 104 sv

    switch 104 sv

    11/8/2012 7:21:44 PM Permalink
    The story didn't progress the way you wanted or expected so you dislike it. If it had played out exactly as expected I bet you'd give out saying it was too simple and obvious. Personally I like the direction 343i have taken the Forerunner fiction. It is far more interesting seeing them as a flawed, more "human" race instead of the benevolent Godlike (read: dull) species they were mistaken for. The Flood being a test really doesn't diminish them as an enemy at all because this test has no end. It's not an exam where it is awful but it'll eventually be over. There are only two outcomes; victory or total annihilation. That was the case before the Flood were expanded on and it is still the case now. But everyone is entitled to their opinions.
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