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haloplayer2kill

haloplayer2kill

11/4/2012 9:50:43 AM
So the time it took Reach to fall in the game, compared to the book, is quite different, also there was an Easter egg in Reach that showed the Chief in cryo on the ship, but i think that conflicts with where he is supposed to be at that time. Also i don't think the PoA ever landed on Reach in the book. So i know retcons happened, all im asking is, what parts of the book "Fall of Reach" are still canon? For example, in the new canon, did the PoA still participate in the big space battle like it did in the old canon? Or did it just leave Reach and jump to Halo?

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    TheSpiderChief

    TheSpiderChief

    11/9/2012 10:47:42 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Atomsk A33 The story's made up and the cannon doesn't matter.[/quote] But the cannon should matter. They are heavy weapons after all.
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    Atom95

    Atom95

    11/9/2012 10:39:10 PM Permalink
    The story's made up and the cannon doesn't matter. Trying to follow it beyond Halo 1 is pointless. Read the books you like and enjoy them, but don't lose sleep over inconsistencies in the story. There are plenty of people on the internet who are content do do it for you. The best way to enjoy subsequent campaigns is while drinking with friends. [u][b]Halo 3 Drinking Game[/u][/b] 1.) Everyone drinks when some NPC climbs a box (Friend or Foe) 2.) Everyone drinks when Cortana or the Gravemind slows down time with their boring, poorly written monologues 3.) Drink when you die 4.) Everyone Drinks when the party wipes. By Crow's Nest you are buzzed, and by The Great Pumpkin you can't remember you're own name.
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    Sgt Bash X77

    Sgt Bash X77

    11/9/2012 10:14:40 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SpArTaNo9 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Arr, this is too tempting.. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SpArTaNo9 Uh, you know that the Pillar of Autumn was able to land on Reach because of those yellow thrusters right?[/quote]The thrusters were there to explain why it was able to take off. Does anything imply that they helped it land, or how the PoA's structural integrity suddenly was able to withstand the planets gravity when taking off? Or are you being sarcastic? [/quote] Nope, The Pillar of Autumn is a Halcyon class cruiser which is one of the strongest cruisers that the UNSC has. I'm pretty sure it's able to survive a planet's gravitational pull.[/quote]Ok, so why the endless remarks on the whole [i]ready for in atmosphere[/i] stuff, if it's a none-issue, is it just mentioned for teh coolz? If Halcyon class cruisers are able to go in and out of a planet such as Reach's atmosphere, how come it isn't a thing, why don't the do it all the time, surely it must be more practical? Why are they buildt in space from the beginning? Why do they have space elevators?[/quote] How would getting in and out of atmosphere be more practical than use pelican dropships? I don't think it is. While getting into an planets atmosphere might be easy getting out of might be a little problematic to do, since escaping from the gravitational pull aquires a ton of energy. The ship might have to use a months worth of fuel to get out of atmosphere, and this ofcourse cost a ton of money. That's probably why the PoA in Reach has aditional trusters to get out of atmosphere. Also the ship may be able to withstand the gravitational pull at first but they will probaly deteriorate after multiple entries thus making the ship not ready for atmosphere. And for the question why build a space ship in space? Because they can and it's easier. Stuff doesn't weigh as much in space as on a planet. And since a titanium bike already weights about 9kg, a titanium plate with the size of a house will be to heavy to handle on a planet. Building the ships in space will probably go faster, cheaper and better because the titanium plates can be hold in place better in space.
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    CanineThewolvie
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    Frisky Cole
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    Plasma Prestige

    Plasma Prestige

    11/6/2012 1:46:11 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheSpiderChief [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa So, you'd rather place information from secondary sources over what comes directly from the creators and developers themselves? No offense, but I find that more than a bit odd to take as a position. The material directly produced and released by the original creators of the series is what should be held in the highest regard.[/quote] As much as I agree I would like to point out that the authors of the books worked closely with Bungie/343i. Not too mention that Joseph Staten, the author of Contact Harvest I believe, is an actual Bungie employee.[/quote] They still add their own views and interpretations to it...and 343i has done a rather poor job with following up on the books and making sure they adhere to canon *cough*Glasslands*cough*. They may work with the writers to an extent, but it's still the writer's interpretation of what they're given in terms of information and so on that they put into the book, and some, like The Fall of Reach for instance, was done with very little oversight, according to both Bungie and Nylund, as Bungie was more focused on getting Combat Evolved published than anything else. So yes, the writers for the games do work with the people they've contracted for book writing, but the biases and personal views of the book writer are still going to seep into the work and differ to varying degrees from the creator's own visions. The highest regarded canon should be what comes directly from the writers themselves or those heavily involved in that process, such as Marty O'Donnel, even though he isn't one of the official writers he's still had some influence on the story and its direction (at least from what Staten said/implied in at least one interview). Joseph Staten was one of the people writing the story of the Halo games. I'm not saying the games are the only important thing and everything else should be completely ignored, I'm saying that whatever comes directly from the people who actually write for the game(s) should be taken ahead of what anyone else writes.[/quote] I am so glad 343i disagrees with you. Regardless of how badly Traviss botched Glasslands, at least 343i acknowledges that the extended fiction is equally valuable and not second priority like Bungie insisted.
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    Plasma Prestige

    Plasma Prestige

    11/6/2012 1:44:19 AM Permalink
    My biggest problem with what Bungie did with Reach is that they failed to release a version of the novel that made more sense. Instead, a new cover was released with a stupid adjunct.
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    SubtleSpartan

    SubtleSpartan

    11/5/2012 12:56:57 PM Permalink
    Why does everyone hate reach cannon so much over TFoR? The battle in TFoR made hardly any sense in that the covenant magically knew the locations of all UNSC outposts on the planet and despite having half the fleet wiped out initially they go on to still defeat the UNSC forces in a single day. The way Reach falls in the game makes much more sense than in the book.
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    OrderedComa

    OrderedComa

    11/5/2012 4:19:15 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheSpiderChief [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa So, you'd rather place information from secondary sources over what comes directly from the creators and developers themselves? No offense, but I find that more than a bit odd to take as a position. The material directly produced and released by the original creators of the series is what should be held in the highest regard.[/quote] As much as I agree I would like to point out that the authors of the books worked closely with Bungie/343i. Not too mention that Joseph Staten, the author of Contact Harvest I believe, is an actual Bungie employee.[/quote] They still add their own views and interpretations to it...and 343i has done a rather poor job with following up on the books and making sure they adhere to canon *cough*Glasslands*cough*. They may work with the writers to an extent, but it's still the writer's interpretation of what they're given in terms of information and so on that they put into the book, and some, like The Fall of Reach for instance, was done with very little oversight, according to both Bungie and Nylund, as Bungie was more focused on getting Combat Evolved published than anything else. So yes, the writers for the games do work with the people they've contracted for book writing, but the biases and personal views of the book writer are still going to seep into the work and differ to varying degrees from the creator's own visions. The highest regarded canon should be what comes directly from the writers themselves or those heavily involved in that process, such as Marty O'Donnel, even though he isn't one of the official writers he's still had some influence on the story and its direction (at least from what Staten said/implied in at least one interview). Joseph Staten was one of the people writing the story of the Halo games. I'm not saying the games are the only important thing and everything else should be completely ignored, I'm saying that whatever comes directly from the people who actually write for the game(s) should be taken ahead of what anyone else writes.
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    Wicked Navajo

    Wicked Navajo

    11/5/2012 3:16:26 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SpArTaNo9 Halsey gave half of Cortana to chief, well, most of her. A shard of Cortana stayed with Halsey and that's what you give to Captain Keyes.[/quote]This makes much more sense.
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    11/5/2012 2:18:55 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RKOSNAKE Considering how Halcyon Class Cruisers are barely used at all, I wouldn't be surprised if barely anybody knew that they are able to withstand that.[/quote]Mmm.. Maybe the [i]logic[/i] I'm applying right now is valid in the Haloverse, but I've got programs om my computer that are able to stress-test things, buildings, etc, I find it very hard to believe that they know what their space ships are capable of withstanding.
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    RKOSNAKE

    RKOSNAKE

    11/5/2012 2:09:21 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SpArTaNo9 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Arr, this is too tempting.. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SpArTaNo9 Uh, you know that the Pillar of Autumn was able to land on Reach because of those yellow thrusters right?[/quote]The thrusters were there to explain why it was able to take off. Does anything imply that they helped it land, or how the PoA's structural integrity suddenly was able to withstand the planets gravity when taking off? Or are you being sarcastic? [/quote] Nope, The Pillar of Autumn is a Halcyon class cruiser which is one of the strongest cruisers that the UNSC has. I'm pretty sure it's able to survive a planet's gravitational pull.[/quote]Ok, so why the endless remarks on the whole [i]ready for in atmosphere[/i] stuff, if it's a none-issue, is it just mentioned for teh coolz? If Halcyon class cruisers are able to go in and out of a planet such as Reach's atmosphere, how come it isn't a thing, why don't the do it all the time, surely it must be more practical?[/quote] Considering how Halcyon Class Cruisers are barely used at all, I wouldn't be surprised if barely anybody knew that they are able to withstand that.
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    11/5/2012 2:07:30 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SpArTaNo9 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Arr, this is too tempting.. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SpArTaNo9 Uh, you know that the Pillar of Autumn was able to land on Reach because of those yellow thrusters right?[/quote]The thrusters were there to explain why it was able to take off. Does anything imply that they helped it land, or how the PoA's structural integrity suddenly was able to withstand the planets gravity when taking off? Or are you being sarcastic? [/quote] Nope, The Pillar of Autumn is a Halcyon class cruiser which is one of the strongest cruisers that the UNSC has. I'm pretty sure it's able to survive a planet's gravitational pull.[/quote]Ok, so why the endless remarks on the whole [i]ready for in atmosphere[/i] stuff, if it's a none-issue, is it just mentioned for teh coolz? If Halcyon class cruisers are able to go in and out of a planet such as Reach's atmosphere, how come it isn't a thing, why don't the do it all the time, surely it must be more practical? Why are they buildt in space from the beginning? Why do they have space elevators? [Edited on 11.04.2012 6:09 PM PST]
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    RKOSNAKE

    RKOSNAKE

    11/5/2012 2:04:15 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] fsabran I've been thinking of something. The Kilo five trilogy is a sequel to ghost of onyx. GoO is a sequel to FoR. The Kilo-5 trilogy is tied directly to Halo 4 so everything in it is cannon. Therefore FoR is Halo 4 Cannon which means that Halo reach is Non-cannon, Yay![/quote] No, and you should feel dumb by merely suggesting that.
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    fsabran

    fsabran

    11/5/2012 2:00:28 AM Permalink
    I've been thinking of something. The Kilo five trilogy is a sequel to ghost of onyx. GoO is a sequel to FoR. The Kilo-5 trilogy is tied directly to Halo 4 so everything in it is cannon. Therefore FoR is Halo 4 Cannon which means that Halo reach is Non-cannon, Yay!
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    XxChadTheGamerxX

    XxChadTheGamerxX

    11/5/2012 1:56:59 AM Permalink
    [quote]So the time it took Reach to fall in the game, compared to the book, is quite different, also there was an Easter egg in Reach that showed the Chief in cryo on the ship, but i think that conflicts with where he is supposed to be at that time. Also i don't think the PoA ever landed on Reach in the book. So i know retcons happened, all im asking is, what parts of the book "Fall of Reach" are still canon? For example, in the new canon, did the PoA still participate in the big space battle like it did in the old canon? Or did it just leave Reach and jump to Halo? [/quote] I was always told it was Linda, and thought so. Even though that's kindof reading too much into it, Linda was on the PoA during that time. :D [Edited on 11.04.2012 5:57 PM PST]
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    SpArTaNo9

    SpArTaNo9

    11/5/2012 1:42:25 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Arr, this is too tempting.. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SpArTaNo9 Uh, you know that the Pillar of Autumn was able to land on Reach because of those yellow thrusters right?[/quote]The thrusters were there to explain why it was able to take off. Does anything imply that they helped it land, or how the PoA's structural integrity suddenly was able to withstand the planets gravity when taking off? Or are you being sarcastic? [/quote] Nope, The Pillar of Autumn is a Halcyon class cruiser which is one of the strongest cruisers that the UNSC has. I'm pretty sure it's able to survive a planet's gravitational pull.
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    11/5/2012 1:13:17 AM Permalink
    Arr, this is too tempting.. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SpArTaNo9 Uh, you know that the Pillar of Autumn was able to land on Reach because of those yellow thrusters right?[/quote]The thrusters were there to explain why it was able to take off. Does anything imply that they helped it land, or how the PoA's structural integrity suddenly was able to withstand the planets gravity when taking off? Or are you being sarcastic? [Edited on 11.04.2012 5:15 PM PST]
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    SpArTaNo9

    SpArTaNo9

    11/5/2012 12:42:16 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TwistedDippy666 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa In regards to the OP, everything in TFoR is still canon except for the length of the battle. Lasting from the 12th of August up to the 30th of the same month. The Covies were on Reach before then, but fullscale war hadn't begun until the 12th when the UNSC assaulted that big drop zone and the Supercarrier revealed itself. So rather than lasting a laughable 30-45 minutes like in TFoR (that was the main short-coming of the book, the battle was not portrayed at all realistically), it lasts roughly two weeks. And the only other change was when the Autumn left Reach for Alpha Halo and how long real fighting lasted on the 30th. Everything else happens as it did in canon. In the early hours of the 30th the Spartans split up, roughly 15-30 minutes later Chief and his survivors are picked up again, and then at some point between 6:45 AM IIRC and 4:30 PM, the Autumn goes down to the ship yards in Aszod to await Noble Team and the fragment of Cortana Six is carrying. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TwistedDippy666 For Halo Reach to make any sense whatsoever it's accepted that what happens in the game is what ONI manages to piece together from pieces of small intel. If you want to get right down into it then the dates really mess up a lot of what happens, the PoA being on the ground ruins canon even more. It's best just to disregard reach.[/quote] The dates don't mess anything up at all. A small Covenant fleet arrives just after the destruction of the LNoS and Reach is officially under invasion, yet the UNSC is able to mostly hold them at bay and UNSC reinforcements poor in daily...as the planet is able to hold off the invasion, the PoA is prepped for departure on the 30th....Keyes decides to return to Reach when the Fleet of Particular Justice arrives and Reach starts getting overrun. There's nothing to conflict in that. And no, the Autumn being groundside after Chief, Johnson, clinically-dead Linda, and the other marines are extracted from Gamma Station does not break or ruin anything. The Autumn simply goes down to the surface of Reach after extracting the above because Halsey sends Keyes a message....how does that even come close to breaking canon?[/quote] Humanity only had a chance in fights when they outnumbered covenant 3:1, it was the other way around for reach, the length of the fall is about right seeing as how handicapped the UNSC were. Also the specialist covenant ship with the prototype weapon was eliminating ships in seconds. Also the Autumn was built in zero gee conditions as it was too heavy to be built in atmosphere, it was never deisgned to land on a planet, hence why keyes crashed it into halo. Also the spartan 3's never went near Reach at all, nor did they get mjolnir.[/quote] Uh, you know that the Pillar of Autumn was able to land on Reach because of those yellow thrusters right? [Edited on 11.04.2012 4:44 PM PST]
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    Juan Teran

    Juan Teran

    11/4/2012 11:21:10 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheSpiderChief [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa So, you'd rather place information from secondary sources over what comes directly from the creators and developers themselves? No offense, but I find that more than a bit odd to take as a position. The material directly produced and released by the original creators of the series is what should be held in the highest regard.[/quote] As much as I agree I would like to point out that the authors of the books worked closely with Bungie/343i. Not too mention that Joseph Staten, the author of Contact Harvest I believe, is an actual Bungie employee.[/quote]I've been saying that for months, their response? "I CAN'T HEER U!!!" [Edited on 11.04.2012 3:28 PM PST]
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    TheSpiderChief

    TheSpiderChief

    11/4/2012 11:19:00 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa So, you'd rather place information from secondary sources over what comes directly from the creators and developers themselves? No offense, but I find that more than a bit odd to take as a position. The material directly produced and released by the original creators of the series is what should be held in the highest regard.[/quote] As much as I agree I would like to point out that the authors of the books worked closely with Bungie/343i. Not too mention that Joseph Staten, the author of Contact Harvest I believe, is an actual Bungie employee.
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    OrderedComa

    OrderedComa

    11/4/2012 11:15:25 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TwistedDippy666 Humanity only had a chance in fights when they outnumbered covenant 3:1, it was the other way around for reach, the length of the fall is about right seeing as how handicapped the UNSC were. Also the specialist covenant ship with the prototype weapon was eliminating ships in seconds. Also the Autumn was built in zero gee conditions as it was too heavy to be built in atmosphere, it was never deisgned to land on a planet, hence why keyes crashed it into halo. Also the spartan 3's never went near Reach at all, nor did they get mjolnir.[/quote] Actually it wasn't, the numbers Nylund gave were pretty damn close to exactly even in terms of ships...and that's not including the SMACs and other orbital defenses around the planet. Just about half of the Fleet of Particular Justice (which numbered 314 or so ships as I'm sure you know) was wiped out before they could even engage the UNSC due to blundering into a mine-field and the SMACs opening fire. After losing so many ships before the battle even really began the Covenant was left with roughly 150 ships against the UNSC's own 150 ships. And each SMAC, in terms of capability and as a military asset equals about the same amount as three UNSC ships in a space battle as a single shot can gut a whole Covenant cruiser of almost any class. Going off of TFoR alone the UNSC and Covenant were just about equal in terms of military assets and ships. And the whole 3:1 thing is not a universal law like so many of the people against Reach or in support of TFoR's account of things seem to believe, that's when the UNSC stood the best [i]chance[/i] of winning, but it was not the only time they could ever do anything. The whole Keyes' Loop incident for instance. Captain Keyes beat three or four Covenant ships with just his one, and there are more than that too. 30-45 minutes is not realistic or believable at all, not with the way Nylund had set everything up, and especially not with Reach being the very heart of the UNSC military. I always hated TFoR's depiction of events and thought it incredibly and laughably stupid...but that's just on its own. With Reach added into the mix, the battle as laid out in TFoR actually makes sense. And yet...in Combat Evolved (the first game and the foundation of the whole series), it had a landing routine and actually landed on Alpha Halo as opposed to crashing and wrecking completely. It was a controlled crash-landing, obviously the Autumn can land...doesn't mean it's meant to fly around in an atmosphere like the frigates can, but it can land and get up into the air again safely....and IIRC, the Autumn was supposed to the UNSC's original way of getting off Alpha Halo too. SIIIs didn't get Mjolnir, they got SPI. Noble Team, however, are not average SIIIs, they matched every single one of Halsey's standards for the Spartan II program, and thus like all of the others like that they were pulled from their companies before the suicide missions and given Mjolnir armor and outfitted as proper Spartans would be. That's what the plan was for the SIII Gamma Company main characters in GoO as well, being fielded either as Headhunters or as full Spartan IIs in everything but name like Noble were depending on the outcome of that last training exercise. And how do you know they were never on Reach? That's a pretty bold claim right there, we only ever saw the battle from the quite limited perspective of Master Chief and Keyes for the space battle in TFoR, and a little bit of the ground battle around the generator complex through the eyes of Red Team in First Strike. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Swiftkillswitch3 I place the books, as I always will, as more canon and more core-based than any of the games. Reach is the one in which I will never consider canon.[/quote] So, you'd rather place information from secondary sources over what comes directly from the creators and developers themselves? No offense, but I find that more than a bit odd to take as a position. The material directly produced and released by the original creators of the series is what should be held in the highest regard.
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    Juan Teran

    Juan Teran

    11/4/2012 11:00:04 PM Permalink
    Halo: Reach is like the Star Wars prequels, it can't be undone, it will never go away, it arrived just to mess everything up. So yeah, Halo: Reach is canon, much to my dismay, but what can we do? They already found a way to "fix" all the problems with the story and dates, just give some brain asphyxia to everyone in Reach (Covenant included) for a month, and ta-da! [Edited on 11.04.2012 3:01 PM PST]
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    11/4/2012 10:00:36 PM Permalink
    Is that a Reach vs TFoR storm brewing up? Reach and its rough weather... I'll be hiding in CASTLE base until it's over...
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    TwistedDippy

    TwistedDippy

    11/4/2012 9:50:24 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa In regards to the OP, everything in TFoR is still canon except for the length of the battle. Lasting from the 12th of August up to the 30th of the same month. The Covies were on Reach before then, but fullscale war hadn't begun until the 12th when the UNSC assaulted that big drop zone and the Supercarrier revealed itself. So rather than lasting a laughable 30-45 minutes like in TFoR (that was the main short-coming of the book, the battle was not portrayed at all realistically), it lasts roughly two weeks. And the only other change was when the Autumn left Reach for Alpha Halo and how long real fighting lasted on the 30th. Everything else happens as it did in canon. In the early hours of the 30th the Spartans split up, roughly 15-30 minutes later Chief and his survivors are picked up again, and then at some point between 6:45 AM IIRC and 4:30 PM, the Autumn goes down to the ship yards in Aszod to await Noble Team and the fragment of Cortana Six is carrying. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TwistedDippy666 For Halo Reach to make any sense whatsoever it's accepted that what happens in the game is what ONI manages to piece together from pieces of small intel. If you want to get right down into it then the dates really mess up a lot of what happens, the PoA being on the ground ruins canon even more. It's best just to disregard reach.[/quote] The dates don't mess anything up at all. A small Covenant fleet arrives just after the destruction of the LNoS and Reach is officially under invasion, yet the UNSC is able to mostly hold them at bay and UNSC reinforcements poor in daily...as the planet is able to hold off the invasion, the PoA is prepped for departure on the 30th....Keyes decides to return to Reach when the Fleet of Particular Justice arrives and Reach starts getting overrun. There's nothing to conflict in that. And no, the Autumn being groundside after Chief, Johnson, clinically-dead Linda, and the other marines are extracted from Gamma Station does not break or ruin anything. The Autumn simply goes down to the surface of Reach after extracting the above because Halsey sends Keyes a message....how does that even come close to breaking canon?[/quote] Humanity only had a chance in fights when they outnumbered covenant 3:1, it was the other way around for reach, the length of the fall is about right seeing as how handicapped the UNSC were. Also the specialist covenant ship with the prototype weapon was eliminating ships in seconds. Also the Autumn was built in zero gee conditions as it was too heavy to be built in atmosphere, it was never deisgned to land on a planet, hence why keyes crashed it into halo. Also the spartan 3's never went near Reach at all, nor did they get mjolnir.
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    DecepticonCobra

    DecepticonCobra

    11/4/2012 9:40:34 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Swiftkillswitch3 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Swiftkillswitch3 I place the books, as I always will, as more canon and more core-based than any of the games. [b]Reach is the one in which I will [i]never[/i] consider canon.[/b][/quote] Not sure if that really matters...[/quote] It does, for me and maybe or maybe not for others.[/quote] Well fans don't have a say on what is canon or not and if an other Reach discussion happens, Reach can't be discounted.
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