We can expect, [i]awesomeness[/i].

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka What can we expect of Bungie? I initially intened for this to be a parody of how 343i has handled Halo by how they made Halo 4, but after having written a page or two of pure rant, where I Socratically bombarded Bungie with arguements for why they should have made Halo more like 343i made it, example after example; as a reaction of having seen that the public prefered it to the previous games, calling it the ultimate Halo game where every element has surpassed its predesessors (praise, praise, praise), I gradually realised that even though what I wrote was what I felt, focus would probably be taken away from its meaning and what I meant, and become perceived as a shallow nerd rage, just because of its tone and direct intent to scorn. Instead I decided to allow whoever will be reading this, to make up their own minds, and answer the questions I intended to answer, for themselves. Here's the main bulk: [b]Note: this is still a rant, I just hope that I've managed to make it into a more [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRr7H3woFn4&feature=share&list=PL1665576E7498BAB7]David Mitchell[i]esque[/i][/url] rant (without the humour), rather than something completely unhinged.[/b] It's so meta isn't it, what [i]is[/i] something supposed to be? Is it supposed to be itself or something else? Will it be more liked if it is itself, or if it is something else? If it is not liked, should it change to something that is liked, or should it stay true to itself? Is [i]true[/i] to itself even [i]true[/i]? Is change natural, and inevitable, whether it is in need of it or not? If it is liked by some, but not of other, should it change to satisfy the other, change to satisfy both, or remain the same to satisfy those who liked for what it was? Did it like itself for what it was? Did those who made it like it for what it was or did they want to change it? Who has the most right to demand anything? Replace [i]it[/i] with Halo, and you can see that the answer is as of now evident: Halo 4 is apparently the best Halo so far, even though it has not remained the same. Even if it isn't percieved as the best, was change necesary at all? It has changed, in order to satisfy those who didn't like it for what it was. Take that Bungie! 343i's Halo is evidently what evryone wanted all along. Bungie never lived up to the promis they themselves thought that they had strived towards. The halo games they made were apparantly meek versions of what Halo could have been. Good job 343i, you've done what Bungie never managed to do. (damn, too much nerd rage seeping out) :P So why am I not pleased, why don't I care? Well, I can say exactly why, but what would that do?Why should Bungie or 343i care that I no longer feel comfortable with being a fan of the franchise as a whole, because I feel that it has become far to diluted? Why should 343i care? Why should my opinion matter, why should my--or someone elses--ability to pinpoint and identify the differences matter, even the slightest? I don't know about 343i, but I can say one thing to Bungie. [b]This is like having fallen of a horse; I'm not sure I'd want to ride the same one, even though it has had its saddle changed.[/b] I have abbandoned Halo, cause I no longer am in tune with it. I am not in harmony when watching and hearing its latest incarnation. A majority of what I liked is changed, and that which has changed I care nothing for. For me it is no more than endorsed fanfic. With that said, I'm hoping that I will be able to find what I liked about Halo, in Destiny. Indirectly of course (themes, style, virtues, vice, etc). [b]But--and here's the catch--it has come to a point where I no longer trust the industry.[/b] Why should I devote my time and money to something that at first is exactly what I want, but in the end might change to something I couldn't care less for, soiling my entire experience? When Destiny gets it's first teaser or trailer, why should I spend time analysing it for clues, even though it coud all change? Should games, which purpose are to be of as high quality as possible in order to achieve certain visions; games which have the potential of making it an artform to create a flawless experience, allow itself to forfeit in its endevour only because life in general is wayward and unforseeable, or that it is supposed to be seen as no more than a meaningless diversion? It is a form of entertainment, yes, a luxury, not necessity, and with the broad amount of possibilities one can choose from, and the aspect of being forced to settle, eliminated, wouldn't the chance to reassure, only be a plus, a step closer to a perfectly tailored experience, allow it to be more than just a silly was of amusing oneself? If I somehow managed to make you understand whatever my above sentenses were supposed to amount to, I ask, would being reassured of certain things such as the games being faithfull to themselves as a whole, benefit your overall experiance and involvement in a game/universe/franchise? [b](that question is the main purpose of this thread).[/b] I am seeking refuge under Destiny after having been betrayed by Halo, but even if you don't share that sentiment, what are your views on handling a franchise? Should it aim towards being what whatever it's first installment imprinted in those who experienced it in its time, or should it change for any reason, like [i]artistic freedom[/i], or do you have a completely different opinion on the matter? Even if you are indifferent, please do try and explain why, and if you propagate for indifference, please do explain that also? Thank you for reading. Oh, and Bungie, I still have the utmost respect for you guys, so disregard my sarcasm in the fourth paragraph. To post or not to post? To hell with it! *le click* ...*waits patiently*...[/quote] [b]halo 4 has yet to be released[/b] /thread

The Best and nothing but the Best so help me God...

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wikked Navajoe We can expect another awesome game with another awesome universe of knowledge.[/quote] I love this short answer that says more than all that question wall of text from the Op. ;p

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka ...I'm hoping that I will be able to find what I liked about Halo, in Destiny. Indirectly of course (themes, style, virtues, vice, etc). I am seeking refuge under Destiny after having been betrayed by Halo...[/quote] I just want to tell you that if you think about Destiny like this you'll be extremly disapointed, i know how it's hard to figure out what they're doing now, but really don't think about it as an "tranvestite" Halo. We have anything yet except some supposition, and perhaps you need to erase of your mind this idea. With hindsight just take the new game as something different and unique as it is supposed to be. Finally, if you take refuge under Destiny, of course it's your choice, but don't let your desire take too much control of your imagination, Bungie will as usual stay the creator with the key position on making "choices" (for better of for worse ^^'). And i'm the first to admit how frustrating it is to see the bad things they've done in the past that make us angry, just because they wanted to do it (Reach).

Expect... Pie

There are gamers out there who think Halo CE was bad and there are gamers out there who think Halo CE was the best. This goes for Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST and Halo: Reach. No doubtedly there will be people who think Halo 4 is bad, and people who think Halo 4 is the best. There are a multitude of gamers out there, they won't all like Bungie's next game. Hell, I might not even like it and I full heartedly support Bungie. They make games they want to play, and we buy and play games we want to play. You may not like change. But change it what keeps me excited. Fundementals are important, yes. Keeping the feel of a game is important, most definitely. But without change, a game gets tired. If Halo didn't change from each release, I would probably be tired of the series by now. I wouldn't pour so many hours into it, I probably wouldn't be a part of this community. Staying true to the franchise may not always be what's best for a franchise. I know I don't buy Call of Duty anymore for the simple fact that it's rehashed every year. I found Call of Duty fun, but no change means Call of Duty doesn't get my change. (Money double meaning there..) Anyways, back to my point. As a developer grows, their vision grows and changes. No one wants to be doing/releasing the same game year after year. Your soul dies. Inevitably, game devs want to make different games, they want to change, they want to make games they want to play. As an artist, I wouldn't want to make a painting, and then make it again and again. I want to evolve my paintings, I want them to be unique and different from each other. Change is necessary in creativity. We might not always like it, but we can learn from it and make something even better. (Which is what 343 is doing with Halo 4) And Bungie's game will probably change from it's inception, into a whole new beast by the end of it all. I'm okay with that. If you're not, oh well. I think you're letting nostalgia and your comfort zone detract from an amazing experience/view.

We can expect another awesome game with another awesome universe of knowledge.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mass Craziness "We Make Games We Want To Play." Well, if that's how Bungie rolls, is it so bad that another company may want to do the same? They sunk the time and money into making it, and, if they like it and would want to play it, can you fault them? It's a shame you may not like it and that you no longer want to play it, but they made the game how they wanted to, and how they thought would be most enjoyable. Perhaps Bungie's next game will be enjoyable to you, and perhaps it won't be. Will they enjoy it all the same? Most likely. Will they create it in a way that they find most enjoyable, even if they have to step on some people's toes? You bet. It's how it is. This is the way it should be done, and I've come to accept it.[/quote] Changing the gameplay for a series if the developers change to suit their own styles is all well and good, that's just fine and dandy. However...the story should be placed under the same umbrella. Story needs to stay consistent with itself, and the problem with 343i is that they are taking the story in directions not supported by the story that Bungie already put out there and established. I really don't care how the game plays....but the story is off limits. It should never be taken in directions that defy what's been established, such as what 343i is doing with the Elites in Halo 4, or the Didact and Forerunners. They can change the gameply up all they want though, I actually kind of welcome that, I don't like games where it stay exactly the same each and ever release or pretty damn close to it, I could name the most well known one...but we've already heard everything that could ever possibly be heard it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ecartman1214 For the movie comparison. My brother is what I would consider a competitor gamer. He plays to win, he doesn't care at all about the story or anything related to it. He has never played the campaigns of any of the halos, buying them only for multiplayer. This is relevant because what he cares about is gameplay mechanics and balance. Movies do not need this. As long as the story can progress and be original they can continue to be successful. [/quote]So videogames are doomed, forced to change just because of their medium, it is not about the will of the creator? My point still stands; those interested only in competitive gameplay, could simply play the next game, the game which is more a sequel and natural evolution to the gameplay mechanics than a sequel to the story. Example: Halo CE is the gameplay mechanics sequel to Marathon. Halo 3 is the gameplay mechanics sequalt to CE. But did Halo have to change in order to tell its story? Many still think Half-Life is a better game than H-L 2. Even if they agree that both are fantastic games, they are extremely far from one another. Many have throughout the years said that Combat Evolved has remained the King of the hill. There are tons of games where many of the devotees subsequently have dropped off after the game changed beyond recognition. Tomb Raider, Splinter Cell, KotOR to TOR, Deus Ex, Crysis, Prince of Persia: SoT, Fable, Hitman. The list goes on for quite a while. Isn't that an unequivocal sign that it is better to leave a franchise as it is, only fix issues, and improve balance, tweak? And leave the major changes and design overhauls for the [i]spiritual[/i] successors? [b]A franchise doen't have to be forever and always active, it can take a rest in case people tire, instead of changing it.[/b] Furthermore: dramatically changing gameplay only to satisfy the need for those who only play half of the game, isn't directly fair to the other half, nor does not equal redesigning or reimagining the entire game, changing themes and philosofies. If one did that to anything else than a videogame, it would be considered a reboot. Is that what a sequel is, an opportunity to reboot and change the recipe? Why not openly reboot it then and please everyone; hardcore fans will know that the title isn't trying to pass off as the [i]real[/i] thing, and be more likely to respect change, and the casual audience will get what the marketing department has figured out that they are likely to want, in that particular moment. I believe that it is an illusion that people want change within a franchise, an illusion that in the end proves them wrong. [b]Just look at how often a series tries to[/b] [i]go back to its roots[/i] after having failed to please with its (random number) installment; it's a freaking trend of -blams!- sake! ... We all love change, to experince new things, I just don't think anyone in all honesty wants a franchise that they love--or at least claim to love--to change opposed to refining itself. [url=http://www.thefreedictionary.com/refine]Refine[/url] - To become free of impurities; to acquire polish or elegance. [url=http://www.thefreedictionary.com/redefine]Redefine[/url] - give a new or different definition to. See the difference? [Edited on 11.01.2012 3:22 PM PDT]

For the movie comparison. My brother is what I would consider a competitor gamer. He plays to win, he doesn't care at all about the story or anything related to it. He has never played the campaigns of any of the halos, buying them only for multiplayer. This is relevant because what he cares about is gameplay mechanics and balance. Movies do not need this. As long as the story can progress and be original they can continue to be successful. Game changers No matter how good a game is there is always room for improvement. Rather you think so or not, somebody does. Since Bungie is in charge here they do it. I'm sure there was a meeting about it for every game. "What can we change to make the game better? Additionally, what can we add to keep things fresh?" The truth is not everybody will like every change or addition. A by product of being a "gamer rebel" is when a developer gives into the majority players they are easily disappointed.

343i just gave halo 3 new graphics, and loadouts like reach, obviously Bungie would have gone in that direction. And Bungie is working with activision now so they are probably going to create an amzaing franchise at first which activision can milk in follow up games.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ecartman1214 I initially thought this was a rant specifically pertaining to Halo 4 (its not even out and suddenly random gamers who can't avoid the youtube videos are rating it) However I can see you are disappointed with how the IP has changed from its roots.[/quote]Nice, cause that was partially (to 75%) what I wanted to express.[quote]I believe Bungie will do exactly as they say: "We make games we want to play" Games have to be dynamic to some degree. If Halo 2, for example, were the exact same as Halo CE then [u]they might as well have called it an expansion, much like Halo 3: ODST was[/u].[/quote]And yet many have called ODST the best of the games. As I see it, that's what a [i]true[/i] series is, a set of expansions. If one wants to fresh things up, sure - make a new series of games, under a new title. I wouldn't have minded if Halo CE, 2, and 3, were the same game that continued the story with each new installment, similarly to how little the Marathon games changed. What Halo 3 offered in gameplay, graphic, etc, could have been used for another title. Compare this to movies like Lord of the Rings, Indiana Jones, Star Wars (original), Batman (Nolan), etc, how much did they actually change between each movie? Luke changed clothes several times in the first movie, that was now something one could expect from him, etc. Things can change, just as long as it is within, or near the preconceptions. If one follows this, one respects the viewer. [b]Why do games believe that they can or SHOULD change, redesign and reimagine themselves, just becuse they're on a medium that is able to drastically upgrades its graphical potential?[/b] Where is the self-awareness?! Can you with all honsty say that--and don't think of what the masses would say--a game isn't capable of living up to its predesessor or even surpasing it, by staying within or close to certain boundaries?[quote]I believe bungie did a spectacular job with the evolution of Halo 1-3. For this I support them and wait ever patiently for the next big thing.[/quote]I too believe that Bungie did a spectacular job with the original trilogy. One of the reasons is just that they didn't stray too far from the path. Example: they had the chance to give the Control Room a massive graphical overhaul, just like 343i did in Anniversary, but they didn't, they treated its heritage with respect.[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x Foman123 x[/quote] Yes, I do get that Bungie [i]makes games that they want to play[/i], my question however, was, if I may rephrase it: [b]are games that Bungie wants to make, within its franchise, confined to a certain style, mentality, etc, or are they completely erratic?[/b] Does Bungie want to make games that may or may not dramatically change throughout the course of its series, or do they see value in being consistent? And the question to the community: would you feel more relaxed if you knew that they would be consistent?[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DMX1337[/quote]A good answer that I fully respect. Some people like change or simply don't mind it. I don't agree that change is good for a franchise, but I can sympathise with your reasoning.[quote][/quote]Just to make things even clearer: I wouldn't mind if Destiny went its own way, far away from Halo, just as long at it remained consistent within itself <--- My question to the Community: would you prefere it i it was? [Edited on 11.02.2012 6:19 PM PDT]

Halo has changed over time, that is self-evident. This new installment coming next week will likely be radically different from the previous encounters of the franchise, from what I have heard. But, you cannot just lose hope for the franchise because it has changed. 343i's sole goal is to further the Halo franchise. Everyone there is there for Halo. They know Halo, and they love Halo. Bungie, too- though they once created it- now find themselves as simple lovers and bystanders to the creation process behind the continuing Halo series. Though many fans feel jaded, that the series has switched hands, it will still be Halo. The people at 343i certainly have no ill intent for Halo- why would they? They want to make a Halo experience that they love, as they have loved the former installments. It may have changed drastically, and lost some of its identity along the way, but deep down we all know it is still that same game we all have grown to care for. We all care for it- the community, Bungie, and 343i. We wouldn't stand to have it marred. None of us. 343i will do their best to keep the games living up to the Halo name. Though they will change with each title, as the former games have, the games they produce will still be worked to satiate the Halo fans' desire. It may not be exactly what we expected, wanted, or needed, but it will be what is given to us. We can't just give up on a franchise that has moved us so much, and that we have attached to so deeply. That is absurd. We can only hope to accept where the path may diverge and the dice may fall. No one is held to blame for the changes in a work like this, neither Bungie nor 343i. They have done what they as Halo fans thought would be best fit for the fans, by tailoring it to the enjoyment of themselves (foremost as fans). Bungie may stray from their blockbuster formula for Destiny, so I would advise you not rely on their future titles to be a Halo: Combat Evolved 2.0, but more of a new experiment in what they would like as gamers. It won't be a new Halo pir se, but it will be a game that they love. And from prior experience, the games that they have made out of their love and passion have brought us all experiences that we will never forget in our gaming lives. Both the continuance of the Halo series from 343i and the Destiny project from Bungie will be made it for the sole purpose of pleasing the people who love their games. There is much hope ahead.

I initially thought this was a rant specifically pertaining to Halo 4 (its not even out and suddenly random gamers who can't avoid the youtube videos are rating it) However I can see you are disappointed with how the IP has changed from its roots. I believe Bungie will do exactly as they say: "We make games we want to play" Games have to be dynamic to some degree. If Halo 2, for example, were the exact same as Halo CE then they might as well have called it an expansion, much like Halo 3: ODST was. I believe bungie did a spectacular job with the evolution of Halo 1-3. For this I support them and wait ever patiently for the next big thing.

"We Make Games We Want To Play." Well, if that's how Bungie rolls, is it so bad that another company may want to do the same? They sunk the time and money into making it, and, if they like it and would want to play it, can you fault them? It's a shame you may not like it and that you no longer want to play it, but they made the game how they wanted to, and how they thought would be most enjoyable. Perhaps Bungie's next game will be enjoyable to you, and perhaps it won't be. Will they enjoy it all the same? Most likely. Will they create it in a way that they find most enjoyable, even if they have to step on some people's toes? You bet. It's how it is. This is the way it should be done, and I've come to accept it. [Edited on 11.01.2012 10:39 AM PDT]

Asking how a franchise should be handled is equivalent to "How should a building look?" or "What is your favorite color?." So long as the people who put money into developing it are happy, who cares?