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Psycho

Psycho

10/14/2012 1:31:04 PM
I think I will actually miss the Covenant. Even though the Covenant divided into two factions, the Covenant Loyalists were still good enough for me. I hope the Brutes will return at some point and the Arbiter! [Edited on 10.14.2012 5:31 AM PDT]
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    10/14/2012 6:54:02 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka EDIT: just because something has the same religious views as the Covenant, doesn't make it [i]Covenant[/i]. [/quote] Except that the Storm most definitely [i]are[/i] Covenant, in fact that's what the developers have been referring to them as ever since it was announced they'd come back. It's clear from what happens in The Thursday War that they [i]are[/i] Covenant.[/quote]So their caracteristics haven't changed? The Elites, Grunt, Hunters, Jackals, etc, behave the same as they've always behaved? The internal hierarchy, structure, civilization, is the same? Good, then they are Covenant. [quote]No it isn't. In WWII for instance, the people of Germany were given [i]no choice[/i] but to devote themselves to Hitler (Godwin's Law, [i]wonderful...[/i]) because they were under threat of death if they opposed him. The Elites, while being dictated by the Prophets, clearly [i]believed[/i] in the genocidal butchering of our race [b]and still do[/b].[/quote]Correction: some still do. The Elites knew nothing else at the time, that is what conviction is. Being given no choice to act without being killed, is the same as not being given any choice to form own opinion without being killed. Were the Elites given the choice to negotiate with the humans, to figure out what humanity actually was? The Prophets knew that humanity/the human species were the ones chosen by their own gods, and not any of the species within the Covenant. They knew that the their society would change, probably even collapse, if humanity was introduced; it would become apparent that the foundation of the Covenant was no more than [i]misunderstanding[/i], and since the they wanted to remain in power, they handled the politics in the most decieving of ways: they lied, something that in retrospect actually worked; the Elites bought what they were told. The Elites were pretty much convinced that humanity filled the possition that the Flood later on would prove to have, a force that tested them, one that needed to be cleansed in order to achieve the Great Journey. How could this possibly be any different? Especially given the fact that many Elites changed their beliefs once they larned more about humanity/got the chance to learn more. [i]Godwin's Law[/i], cute. [Edited on 10.14.2012 11:05 AM PDT]
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    Chronarch

    Chronarch

    10/14/2012 5:42:02 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PhyscoRaiderS97 That was like a five minute alliance, they been [i] zombiefying [/i] life for hundreds of thousdands of years.[/quote] So? The Elites were hellbent on humanity's extinction for almost 30 years and killed [i]billions[/i] of people - certainly more than the Flood did. [quote]Anyway I can believe that the humans didn't have harbour any sudden friendship/respect within the Alliance. Maybe the Elites did due to their superior attitude, but they did want to include Humanity in the Covenant because of their fighting spirit etc. (forgot what source, probably Halo Nation).[/quote] No Elite said they [i]wanted[/i] humanity in the Covenant, [i]one[/i] questioned why the Prophets hadn't approached them to join because they've seen humanity are capable fighters. [quote]But the Chief and Arbiter had enough respect to form a friendship, and after Lord Hood's speech at the end of Halo 3. I would presume that Humans and Elites had mutual respect MUTUAL.[/quote] The relationship between John, Thel and Lord Hood is not and cannot be representitive of an [i]entire[/i] race. Many Elites back on Sanghelios still despise humanity and see them as a threat that will rise again and try to wipe out the Sangheili for good - which, funnily enough, is true. Likewise with humanity, ONI see the Elites as a threat that will try to rise up again and stop humanity from colonising again, thus they try to prevent that. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka EDIT: just because something has the same religious views as the Covenant, doesn't make it [i]Covenant[/i].[/quote] Except that the Storm most definitely [i]are[/i] Covenant, in fact that's what the developers have been referring to them as ever since it was announced they'd come back. It's clear from what happens in The Thursday War that they [i]are[/i] Covenant. [quote]That's like saying that England nor France should be able to reconsile with Germany after the two world wars.[/quote] No it isn't. In WWII for instance, the people of Germany were given [i]no choice[/i] but to devote themselves to Hitler (Godwin's Law, [i]wonderful...[/i]) because they were under threat of death if they opposed him. The Elites, while being dictated by the Prophets, clearly [i]believed[/i] in the genocidal butchering of our race [b]and still do[/b].
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    Psycho

    Psycho

    10/14/2012 5:03:35 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Hmmm... The Covenant are a wierd bunch. First we have the Elites, they're vain and dramatic as few; if someone/something so much as gets in the way of their gracious and manneristic way of carrying on about their various businesses, they'll be offended, even starled, shocked that someone had the nerve to interrup them in thier splendor. They are bound to hierarchy, not only by expecting their subordinates to follow orders without questions, but also follow blindly when dealing with a higher authority, and if there isn't one, they stick to the principles and codes of the Covenant. This is why the Prophets lies were so heavy on them. Then we have the Grunts, they're small (in comparison to the rest of the Covenant) and whiny and uncoordinated. Thier cowardice knows no limit, they flee when slightest sign of defeat appears, they often complain or regret their entire lives, whilst doing so, in hilarious ways. Far to curious and playfull too; just a moment of peace and they'll wander off and start touching random stuff, or fall asleep. A mix between a retarded (am I allowed to write that? I'll remove it if it's offencive) C3PO and an Ewok, is a good way of describing them, the comic relief of the Halo series. But that was then. During the era of [I]darker, gritier, more realistic and more badass[/i], Bungie wanted to be taken more seriously, so they changed their style a bit; in Halo 3 we had the suicide Grunts, and in Reach they made an attempt to make them more menecing all together. So at this point... ? The Jackals had their crazed, intence, wide-open eyes, and dodgy, hunched, birdlike way of moving around once they became engadged in action. They never spoke, only made strange noises and... Etc, etc.. Those behavious (many times due to their physiology) are what made the Covenant, that kind of distinct styles/characteristics they all hade, opposed to just look cool and dangeruos, and so on. If that's all still there, it's still the Covenant. The question is if it is? EDIT: just because something has the same religious views as the Covenant, doesn't make it [/i]Covenant[/i].[/quote] That's a very controversial debate you've got going there. You are right though, is it? Although I am aware of another group of over-Zealous Elites, I'm not sure which novel this was from though, but they all eventually died from HAVOK Nukes. I feel like that some Elites were blinded by their apparent faith, very saddening.
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    10/14/2012 4:53:20 PM Permalink
    Hmmm... The Covenant are a wierd bunch. First we have the Elites, they're vain and dramatic as few; if someone/something so much as gets in the way of their gracious and manneristic way of carrying on about their various businesses, they'll be offended, even starled, shocked that someone had the nerve to interrup them in thier splendor. They are bound to hierarchy, not only by expecting their subordinates to follow orders without questions, but also follow blindly when dealing with a higher authority, and if there isn't one, they stick to the principles and codes of the Covenant. This is why the Prophets lies were so heavy on them. Then we have the Grunts, they're small (in comparison to the rest of the Covenant) and whiny and uncoordinated. Thier cowardice knows no limit, they flee when slightest sign of defeat appears, they often complain or regret their entire lives, whilst doing so, in hilarious ways. Far to curious and playfull too; just a moment of peace and they'll wander off and start touching random stuff, or fall asleep. A mix between a retarded (am I allowed to write that? I'll remove it if it's offencive) C3PO and an Ewok, is a good way of describing them, the comic relief of the Halo series. But that was then. During the era of [I]darker, gritier, more realistic and more badass[/i], Bungie wanted to be taken more seriously, so they changed their style a bit; in Halo 3 we had the suicide Grunts, and in Reach they made an attempt to make them more menecing all together. So at this point... ? The Jackals had their crazed, intence, wide-open eyes, and dodgy, hunched, birdlike way of moving around once they became engadged in action. They never spoke, only made strange noises and... Etc, etc.. Those behavious (many times due to their physiology) are what made the Covenant, that kind of distinct styles/characteristics they all hade, opposed to just look cool and dangeruos, and so on. If that's all still there, it's still the Covenant. The question is if it is? EDIT: just because something has the same religious views as the Covenant, doesn't make it [i]Covenant[/i]. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PhyscoRaiderS97 It just doesn't feel right killing Elites after Halo 3. I could understand killing Elites in Reach, that was part of the plot leading up to the main Trilogy etc. But to be fighting them again feels odd, due to the split in the Covenant. I do know that the Storm are extremely Zealous though.[/quote] The alliance between Elites and humanity was formed out of sheer need for survival in the face of a common enemy. They didn't suddenly love each other, and almost 30 years of genocide isn't going to suddenly go away because of this alliance.[/quote]That's like saying that England nor France should be able to reconsile with Germany after the two world wars. Intellectual understanding, empathy and sympathy is everything. If there is no mutual understanding, there is no possibility of peace, so I think the Storm--due to their unwillingness to negotiate--works pretty well; I have no problem waging war against them. [Edited on 10.14.2012 9:07 AM PDT]
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    Psycho

    Psycho

    10/14/2012 4:51:38 PM Permalink
    That was like a five minute alliance, they been [i] zombiefying [/i] life for hundreds of thousdands of years. Anyway I can believe that the humans didn't have harbour any sudden friendship/respect within the Alliance. Maybe the Elites did due to their superior attitude, but they did want to include Humanity in the Covenant because of their fighting spirit etc. (forgot what source, probably Halo Nation). But the Chief and Arbiter had enough respect to form a friendship, and after Lord Hood's speech at the end of Halo 3. I would presume that Humans and Elites had mutual respect MUTUAL.
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    Chronarch

    Chronarch

    10/14/2012 4:43:02 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PhyscoRaiderS97 It just doesn't feel right killing Elites after Halo 3. I could understand killing Elites in Reach, that was part of the plot leading up to the main Trilogy etc. But to be fighting them again feels odd, due to the split in the Covenant. I do know that the Storm are extremely Zealous though.[/quote] The alliance between Elites and humanity was formed out of sheer need for survival in the face of a common enemy. They didn't suddenly love each other, and almost 30 years of genocide isn't going to suddenly go away because of this alliance. Did it feel wrong killing the Flood again after forming an alliance with them? No, it certainly didn't.
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    Psycho

    Psycho

    10/14/2012 4:29:51 PM Permalink
    It just doesn't feel right killing Elites after Halo 3. I could understand killing Elites in Reach, that was part of the plot leading up to the main Trilogy etc. But to be fighting them again feels odd, due to the split in the Covenant. I do know that the Storm are extremely Zealous though. [Edited on 10.14.2012 8:30 AM PDT]
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    Chronarch

    Chronarch

    10/14/2012 4:26:09 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog They're not pirates. They're more like... Templars in the holy land, doing bad in the name of faith.[/quote] I think one could liken them more to some more current religions by that description... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 I preferred the Covenant.[/quote] The game isn't even out yet and you already prefer the Covenant, despite the fact that they're the same... Plus, had you seen any previews of Halo 4 or the recent Terminal, it's pretty clear that they [i]are[/i] an army and their presence in the game will be felt a lot more due to the fact that you can see about 4 Covenant Cruisers attacking the Dawn in the first mission. [Edited on 10.14.2012 8:28 AM PDT]
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    Wolvers

    Wolvers

    10/14/2012 4:14:57 PM Permalink
    They're not pirates. They're more like... Templars in the holy land, doing bad in the name of faith.
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    Manny

    Manny

    10/14/2012 4:09:14 PM Permalink
    The Storm seems more like pirates while the Covenant seemed more like an actual army. I preferred the Covenant.
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    Wolvers

    Wolvers

    10/14/2012 3:22:56 PM Permalink
    Apparently the Storm behave a bit differently to the Covenant in terms of AI, and there's the obvious visual differences. Far less refined.
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    Chronarch

    Chronarch

    10/14/2012 2:32:33 PM Permalink
    They follow the same ideology with the same zealous devotion, the same equipment, same gameplay function and the same races. They're Covenant...
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    Psycho

    Psycho

    10/14/2012 2:27:53 PM Permalink
    That's the Storm Faction though. Personally, I feel like they aren't the Covenant. Just some rogue remnants. Which they kind of are.
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    Chronarch
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