By ExquisiteDragon: [quote] Spartan-II. [/quote] Really Josh... we've been over this before and we both agreed who would win in our sight... (Space Marines if you didn't get it). [Edited on 02.21.2011 11:04 PM PST]

Space Marines have something like 37,000 more years of technology powering them.

[quote] Anyone who is still arguing should just stick to their OPINION, and leave everyone else alone. [/quote] You forget bad dog that in the universe where there is talk of the 41st millennium, there can never be peace, there is only war.

Space Marines

Why is everyone still arguing about this? It's done and retarded now. The Flood can't be used for versus threads. Damn. Anyone who is still arguing should just stick to their [i][b][u]OPINION[/u][/b][/i], and leave everyone else alone.

I love both franchises, but I think the Space Marine would honestly win. They fire bullets the size of rockets that are made of diamond. Only (theory) the heavy weapons and the Gauss Cannon could injure or kill a space marine. Space Marines have lived for hundreds of years I think, lol. I don't to start an argument between me and someone else. Keep it clean (with me that is). -Chaos- [Edited on 02.02.2011 10:41 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Frauka [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ociee You assume that a SPARTAN who has been trained since childhood would be dumb enough to attack an opponent that is much stronger than him.....SPARTANS are masters of guerrilla warfare. The Space Marine would never see the Spartan.[/quote] 1) Wrong, Space Marines have superior senses to humans in that they can hear things inaudible, and prepare for them. 2) Space Marines aspirants start at the age of around 12, and usually have fought for decades at least. 3) How's about you prove that the Spartan will sneak up on the Marine, and then kill him? [quote] Also Space Marines look so f**king retarded..... [/quote] No more than Spartans.[/quote] Space Marines are retarded? Maybe you just judge them by Dawn of War, which is ridiculous. And Space Marines have MUCH more combat experience than any Spartan could acquire. In a Space Marine chapter you may go 100's years of combat and not even acquire veteran status. I may be wrong, but I also believe that the scouts in the chapters, light armored units for recon missions must EARN their Space Marine armor, if they survive. Plus, Space Marines can live for 1000 years or more. And most of it is fighting. They'd crush the Spartans beneath their boots in no time. [Edited on 02.02.2011 10:26 PM PST]

Considering, from what I've heard, 40k is the most overpowered and ridiculous thing ever I'll go with the space marine.

Lordy, Space Marines hands down. Spartans wouldn't stand a chance.

[quote] -He will proof it in that daleks vs forerunner thread. Sure the xeelee would beat the forerunners.But we don't know all capabilities about the precursors,do we?[/quote] That doesn't stop you from debating they will win, for some reason. Also, if you refuse to use real science in this scene, it is useless against the Imperium, given that it doesn't fit with their universe's laws.

[quote]So they weren't conventional ground forces? Good that you FINALLY mention this. Also, if they can damage or destroy warships, then they are, in fact, not conventional ground forces.[/quote] -Ummm no,they are ground troops.Except that they can be compared to UNSC cyclopses or Avatar mechs. [quote]Yeah, they're stronger than Onyx Sentinels en mass, too. Those Onyx sentinels sure are a threat to War Sphinx wearing Flood, am I right?[/quote] -What is this? [quote]Given that these suits apparently aren't invincible to normal Flood, I think it's safe to say they aren't tanking petatons.[/quote] -You are talking about this suits: [url]http://www.halopedian.com/Forerunner_body_armor[/url] Those suits didn't even participated in that battle. War sphinxes did Correction:The new seekers and other crafts [quote]Do Forerunner sentinels and defenses getting damaged by Flood and MA5 guns not quantify as contradictions?[/quote] You mean those sentinels that are only used to contain small outbreaks?They are being referred as "very basic countermeasures" in the bestiarium,which is online on ahlo waypoint now. -There are far stronger sentinels [quote]All assumption. First off, they can't PUNCTURE something tightly sealed against a super mass extinction event, so no adaption will ever help them. Second, how could they board ships without the Forerunners knowing or permission? They couldn't. Third, how did they beat the untold numbers of Forerunner defenses if they were limited to the amount of War Sphinxes they had captured? If they couldn't use their pure or combat forms, then they really couldn't win an engagement with a large defense.[/quote] -They could board ships by ramming in it.I don't know what kind of flood the forerunners were dealing with.But at least far dangerous then the ones in the halo games.The flood adapt,that's what they did.To fight the sentinels and other things. But considering that we have almost zero info on the forerunner and flood engagments,we can't know how they managed to fight the forerunner defenses. [quote]If they can do that, then normal Forerunner ships aren't that much more impressive than Imperial ships. -blam!-, why am I still discussing this?[/quote] No they ripped Human ships apart.And why wouldn't those ships be more advanced then the imperial ones. [quote]Are there any quotes like "X were preparing to drop War Sphinxes onto the planet. The War Sphinxes would punish the Y for their attack on Z." It's simple. Get a quote where it says War Sphinxes are being used and what they are using.[/quote] -No the description was more like. The planet was invaded by x and x crafts.Seekers were mentioned alongside other crafts.But there weren't any sentinels,normal footsoldiers or orbital bombardement. [quote]Of what size and over what time period?[/quote] Size=unknown Book doesn't gives any details [url]http://www.halopedian.com/Battle_of_Janjur_Qom[/url] The time?Again unknown.But again this is based on my memories and my book is unavailable [quote]I hope you don't mean fly into a star and stay there. Many universes can that.[/quote] This: [url]http://www.gregbear.com/blog/display.cfm?id=5298[/url] Halopedian itself doesn't gives much info on it and i can't provide quotes. [quote]Yet you haven't given any proof other than a firepower quote and said "THESE WERE CONVENTIONAL GROUND FORCES!!!!!!!!!!!!" over and over (which isn't true, apparently) in hopes that I would give up?[/quote] No i can't give any proof ,i already explained the reason.You will have to ask someone who got that book within hands reach. So what?There are some contradictions between science and fiction.But fiction overrides it because of the universe itself [quote]Oh yes, we use science due to suspension of disbelief, and only when there is no other option (which isn't the case here), we will have to accept the only thing we can choose.[/quote] No.Books say that forerunner ground forces can fight in such conditions so it's true.It's canon face it. Note:Forerunners in combat skins didn't participated [quote]I'm sure you have proof that Flood can puncture something a petaton can't or that they somehow stole things from the Forerunners.[/quote] They can puncture it if they create a pure forms that is capable of doing that.Flod=adaptable. Yes they can steal things,like when they board a ship and find empty suites.It happened many times before. [quote]Proof? Besides, the Xeelee constantly change universal physics for their own needs. They can remove that problem if they so desired (if it exists, which I doubt it does). If not that, the Xeelee can just travel back microseconds before the Forerunners came into existence and remove them. The same goes for the Precursors.[/quote] -He will proof it in that daleks vs forerunner thread. Sure the xeelee would beat the forerunners.But we don't know all capabilities about the precursors,do we? [quote]Lol. It was YOU who claimed that because the Precursors were "transsentient" they could beat the Xeelee. You have NO idea what that means, but that doesn't stop you from bull-blam!-. You can't even provide proof about the Precursors even after Greg Bear made Cryptum. It's quite sad, really.[/quote] Wait ,what?When did i said that??? For the last time i can't provide any quotes because my parents have temporaly hid it.

??? Who the flying -blam!- brought this back? You'd have to TRY and get it back. It died like a week ago. Must've been a good 30 pages in.

Since he hasn't responded, I hope we can get back on topic.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II [u]-Because the battle didn't described any sentinels.[/u] [/quote] So they weren't conventional ground forces? Good that you FINALLY mention this. Also, if they can damage or destroy warships, then they are, in fact, not conventional ground forces. [quote] [u]-And those weren't war sphinxes,like roberto says don't trust cortana as she never saw the forerunners before[/u] [/quote] Yeah, they're stronger than Onyx Sentinels en mass, too. Those Onyx sentinels sure are a threat to War Sphinx wearing Flood, am I right? [quote] [u]-And you know how those levels work? Please explain[/u] [/quote] Given that these suits apparently aren't invincible to normal Flood, I think it's safe to say they aren't tanking petatons. [quote] [u]-No contradictions[/u] [/quote] Do Forerunner sentinels and defenses getting damaged by Flood and MA5 guns not quantify as contradictions? [quote] [u]-Nope the flood board the ships and find some empty war sphinxes in it or they use forerunner weapons against it or because of their adaptility,they created some pure forms capable of fighting a sphinx[/u][/quote] All assumption. First off, they can't PUNCTURE something tightly sealed against a super mass extinction event, so no adaption will ever help them. Second, how could they board ships without the Forerunners knowing or permission? They couldn't. Third, how did they beat the untold numbers of Forerunner defenses if they were limited to the amount of War Sphinxes they had captured? If they couldn't use their pure or combat forms, then they really couldn't win an engagement with a large defense. [quote] [u]-I can't give the quotes.But i remember that it was said by Bornstellar and he saw through Didacts memories sphinxes ripping ships apart with their hands.[/quote] If they can do that, then normal Forerunner ships aren't that much more impressive than Imperial ships. -blam!-, why am I still discussing this? [quote] RoBERTO could give you the quotes[/u] [/quote] And he hasn't given me context thus far. [quote] [u]-I can't give the quotes but there weren't any sentinels[/u] [/quote] Are there any quotes like "X were preparing to drop War Sphinxes onto the planet. The War Sphinxes would punish the Y for their attack on Z." It's simple. Get a quote where it says War Sphinxes are being used and what they are using. [quote] [u]-They had 2 planet in their starsystem,only one of them was attacked.And what stops the forerunners from repairing the planet,we are talking about a civilisation who can create artificial planets[/quote] Of what size and over what time period? [quote] and can enter a star.[/u][/quote] I hope you don't mean fly into a star and stay there. Many universes can that. [quote] [u]-You mean the undercharged MAC blasts in sword base and tots[/u][/quote] And in Halo 3 where they fire their MACs at the Forerunner Keyship. [quote] [u]-We gave proof from halo canon itself,the book but you think your bull-blam!- overrides it. Halo canon>>>>>>>>>you[/u][/quote] Yet you haven't given any proof other than a firepower quote and said "THESE WERE CONVENTIONAL GROUND FORCES!!!!!!!!!!!!" over and over (which isn't true, apparently) in hopes that I would give up? [quote] [u]-And you don't know what you are saying. Fiction>>>>>>science[/u] [/quote] Hilariously, Science Fiction tries to stay consistent with actual science. It's Science Fantasy that doesn't do that very much. [quote] [u]-And it can survive +1000 c°?[/quote] Sigh, yes, any normal metal today has a melting point higher than that. [quote] Science can't override canon[/u] Oh yes, we use science due to suspension of disbelief, and only when there is no other option (which isn't the case here), we will have to accept the only thing we can choose. [quote] [u]-His info comes from the books. Canon>>>>>>>you[/u] Holy crap, kid, can you even read? [quote] [u]-You don't know how that tier level works...and the flood probably stole those ones and used it against the forerunners or again their adaptility[/u][/quote] I'm sure you have proof that Flood can puncture something a petaton can't or that they somehow stole things from the Forerunners. [quote] [u]-He is right,the only thing capable of destroying forerunner buildings are neural physics weapons,something exclusive to Halo[/quote] Suck it up[/u][/quote] Proof? Besides, the Xeelee constantly change universal physics for their own needs. They can remove that problem if they so desired (if it exists, which I doubt it does). If not that, the Xeelee can just travel back microseconds before the Forerunners came into existence and remove them. The same goes for the Precursors. [quote] [u]-Says an idiot who doesn't knows anything about the precursors.[/u][/quote] Lol. It was YOU who claimed that because the Precursors were "transsentient" they could beat the Xeelee. You have NO idea what that means, but that doesn't stop you from bull-blam!-. You can't even provide proof about the Precursors even after Greg Bear made Cryptum. It's quite sad, really. Oh, and start posting properly. [Edited on 01.30.2011 2:10 PM PST]

Thats just not even fair. The Space Marine would -own- the Spartan.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Frauka Prove. It. Jesus. Christ. If they can do that, Sentinels shouldn't even exist. [u]-Because the battle didn't described any sentinels.[/u] Except we know they used weapons definitely not even in the kiloton or gigajoule range. [u]-And those weren't war sphinxes,like roberto says don't trust cortana as she never saw the forerunners before[/u] [quote] 3) How the -blam!- do you expect him to post pictures from a book? [/quote] He said that's what it looked like after the bombardment. WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE AFTER THE BOMBARDMENT? Jesus, boy, you're slow. [u]-I said how it "LOOKS" like.I was reffering to the quote[/u] [quote] Besides, 343 is in control of Halo now. Whatever they say goes. Halo:Cryptum is what they say. [/quote] Irrelevant. Canon is games > novels. Halo 1 openly states that Master Chief's armor is level 2, and that he should upgrade to level 12. Him being on any level on that scale is an automatic debunking of petaton suits. [u]-And you know how those levels work? Please explain[/u] [quote] A: Again, 343I now dictates canon, not what Bungie stated. [/quote] Irrelevant. Games > novels. [u]-No contradictions[/u] [quote] A: Again, once more, Origins is to be taken extremely crarefully. And do yu honestly think we saw ALL of their weapon capabilities? If so you're an idiot.[/quote] Do you honestly think Forerunners should have trouble with the Flood if their armor is sealed against petaton explosions? If so, you're the idiot. [u]-Nope the flood board the ships and find some empty war sphinxes in it or they use forerunner weapons against it or because of their adaptility,they created some pure forms capable of fighting a sphinx[/u] [quote] And the Flood WOULD have been a problem since they--by nature--take control of the weapons of their enemies. Whatever power the enemies have the Flood has. [/quote] Except the Flood managed to get ahold of these weapons in the first place. Wouldn't happen with what you're calling everything. [u]-What?[/u] [quote] A: They are called War Sphinxes. [/quote] ... I want quotes, not claims that you prats never seem to back up. [u]-I can't give the quotes.But i remember that it was said by Bornstellar and he saw through Didacts memories sphinxes ripping ships apart with their hands. RoBERTO could give you the quotes[/u] [quote] A: Context being WHY the Forerunners did what they did?[/quote] NO, WHAT THEY USED IN THAT ENGAGEMENT AND THE DETAILS OF THE PLANET. Holy. -blam!-. -blam!-. [u]-I can't give the quotes but there weren't any sentinels[/u] [quote] Easy. The Prophets pissed them off. They took up arms against the Forerunners in rebellion. The Forerunners proceeded to rip the planet's crust off and turn the planet inside out (almost literally). It even says they "met opposition with quick and decisive brutality" in the back of the book.[/quote] Funny that their supposed homeworld is still habitable, am I right? Do you actually understand [i]anything[/i]? [u]-They had 2 planet in their starsystem,only one of them was attacked.And what stops the forerunners from repairing the planet,we are talking about a civilisation who can create artificial planets and can enter a star.[/u] [quote] A: does that make it any less true? Bornstellar describes the Prophet homeworld's atmosphere as being made entirely by ash and broiling hot fire, sometimes a hurricane of flames. Your "5up3r 1337 5ci3n7ific" evidence doesn't prove anything. The Forerunners can do it and survive it.[/quote] What? Boiling away the atmosphere requires 77 petatons, but melting the crust of the planet requires several exatons. If the crust was destroyed, the atmosphere would be long gone. Again, you're bull-blam!- about things you have no understanding of, and you know it. [u]-That's what the goddamn quote describes you -blam!-tard.When did your bull-blam!- overrode the Halo canon.Cryptum is canon and your explanation isn't.And you keep talk about games>>>>books even if there is no contradiction,you assume you know how that tier level works.[/u] [quote] A: Because they're needed? We didn't know the energy output of, say, the Covenant's energy projector, but someone calculated it to be about 20 kilotons per second.[/quote] Except this is quite clearly not accurate. The games show them and MACs in the sub-kiloton (are you going to reply to me in the other thread yet about this?) [u]-You mean the undercharged MAC blasts in sword base and tots[/u] [quote] But in this case, we don't need the analysis. The facts are there.[/quote] Want to know how that number was received? By analysis. [u]-We gave proof from halo canon itself,the book but you think your bull-blam!- overrides it. Halo canon>>>>>>>>>you[/u] [quote] A: Again, DOES THAT MAKE IT ANY LESS TRUE??? In fact, thank you for pointing that out. We now knoe the Forerunner combat skins are even more badass then originall thought.[/quote] Thank YOU for pointing out you haven't even gone to high school and literally know nothing about basic physics. [u]-And you don't know what you are saying. Fiction>>>>>>science[/u] [quote] And so what if they can walk on lava? The Space Marine crashed into a friggin' STAR and survived, but we're not saying it isn't possible. Because its FICTION. [/quote] Except that's not the same, at all. A star like the sun generates 90 PT/s, and has a radius of 695,500 kilometers. This gets us an energy density of 62 megawatts per cubic meter. Assuming that a Space Marine's power armor has an area of 3 cubic meters, he would receive 186 megajoules each second while in that star. It might receive a fair amount of damage, but if it's only in and near the star for a brief moment, it can in fact survive. Very different from tanking a petaton explosion. [u]-And it can survive +1000 c°? fiction>>>>>>science Science can't override canon[/u] [quote] A: Halo doesn't use real physics when you get into the ancient times. For contemporary Halo, yeah it does. But everything befor that is to advanced to be possible.[/quote] No, it doesn't work like that. Destroying a crust is not possible with ground infantry unless there is notable physics -blam!- occurring. [u]-*explosive sigh*[/u] [quote] A: Firstly, the games NEVER give ANY description on Forerunner armor, merely a rating system. And again, does the fact that Forerunners could crack crusts but have nothing to walk on make it any less of a fact? We don't know exactley how the Forerunner's armor works other then that it makes you nearly immortal and the Didact's armor could shoot Iron Man esque lasers from his palms. Who knows, maybe they can fly.[/quote] ... Which. You. Haven't. Any. Proof. Of. [u]-His info comes from the books. Canon>>>>>>>you[/u] [quote] A: Pray tell, when does Halo 1 give any description of Forerunner armor capabilities?[/quote] It gives Master Chief's armor a rating of 2 (oh, armor that can't survive a few gigajoules is on a scale with armor that can survive a few exatons, no sweat), and Forerunner armor a rating of 12. Also, if Flood can puncture those suits, then so would a petaton. [u]-You don't know how that tier level works...and the flood probably stole those ones and used it against the forerunners or again their adaptility[/u] [quote] A: Yeah, we did.[/quote] Claiming that those were forerunner ground forces for that one quote isn't proof. However, given your failure at basic reading comprehension - never mind you should go back to high school and figure out why you've made yourself look dumb - it should be no surprise that you would give me the same quote that I asked context for. [u]-Warriors=forerunner infantry Their crafts=seekers[/u] [quote] A: No, they can beat the Xeelee because their technology cannot be destroyed.[/quote] Proof? [u]-He is right,the only thing capable of destroying forerunner buildings are neural physics weapons,something exclusive to Halo Suck it up[/u] [quote] It would at the very least result in a tie, but if mortal humans can fight them, a race of inivincible super-beings with impossible to conceive technology sure as hell can. [/quote] Haha, no. The Xeelee make use of construction material completely unharmed by anything other than magnetic monopoles and black holes. They flung galaxies as bullets during the Photino Bird/Xeelee war. They use omniscient machines that answer questions before they are even asked. They have handguns that destroy stars. They created the Ring that was made up from thousands of galaxies. They bioengineered themselves in the beginning of the universe via time travel so that they were always the rulers of the universe. They were also ahead of everyone else because they normally looked decades to centuries into the future. And if there was ever a problem for the Xeelee (only occurred with the Photino Birds), the Anti-Xeelee would come and fix it via time travel. The Xeelee humans, however, created things similar (given that they were using Xeelee technology), as well as ringworlds light years in diameter, and modified humans to being able of living in the cores of neutron stars. They weren't even considered a threat to the Xeelee, who just closed their stars in Xeelee construction material. The Xeelee placed Earth in a small cube several meters in diameters on the outside, but light years on the inside. Then, later, a single Xeelee Nightfighter (that are all over the universe in uncountable numbers) recreated Earth to its original state in one week. The Precursors are nowhere even a minor threat to the Xeelee. But, let's not derail this horribly off track thread any more. [u]-Says an idiot who doesn't knows anything about the precursors.[/u] [quote] We have. [/quote] Actually, you haven't yet.[/quote] [Edited on 01.30.2011 4:14 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh A: 1) They weren't Sentinels. They were warriors and their warrior craft.[/quote] Prove. It. Jesus. Christ. If they can do that, Sentinels shouldn't even exist. [quote] 2) Frank O'Connor himself says in the commentary for Legends to take Origins with an epic grain of salt since Cortana barely was sane let alone knew what the Forerunners looked like or their weapons. [/quote] Except we know they used weapons definitely not even in the kiloton or gigajoule range. [quote] 3) How the -blam!- do you expect him to post pictures from a book? [/quote] He said that's what it looked like after the bombardment. WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE AFTER THE BOMBARDMENT? Jesus, boy, you're slow. [quote] Besides, 343 is in control of Halo now. Whatever they say goes. Halo: Cryptum is what they say. [/quote] Irrelevant. Canon is games > novels. Halo 1 openly states that Master Chief's armor is level 2, and that he should upgrade to level 12. Him being on any level on that scale is an automatic debunking of petaton suits. [quote] A: Again, 343I now dictates canon, not what Bungie stated. [/quote] Irrelevant. Games > novels. [quote] A: Again, once more, Origins is to be taken extremely crarefully. And do yu honestly think we saw ALL of their weapon capabilities? If so you're an idiot.[/quote] Do you honestly think Forerunners should have trouble with the Flood if their armor is sealed against petaton explosions? If so, you're the idiot. [quote] And the Flood WOULD have been a problem since they--by nature--take control of the weapons of their enemies. Whatever power the enemies have the Flood has. [/quote] Except the Flood managed to get ahold of these weapons in the first place. Wouldn't happen with what you're calling everything. [quote] A: They are called War Sphinxes. [/quote] ... I want quotes, not claims that you prats never seem to back up. [quote] A: Context being WHY the Forerunners did what they did?[/quote] NO, WHAT THEY USED IN THAT ENGAGEMENT AND THE DETAILS OF THE PLANET. Holy. -blam!-. -blam!-. [quote] Easy. The Prophets pissed them off. They took up arms against the Forerunners in rebellion. The Forerunners proceeded to rip the planet's crust off and turn the planet inside out (almost literally). It even says they "met opposition with quick and decisive brutality" in the back of the book.[/quote] Funny that their supposed homeworld is still habitable, am I right? Do you actually understand [i]anything[/i]? [quote] A: does that make it any less true? Bornstellar describes the Prophet homeworld's atmosphere as being made entirely by ash and broiling hot fire, sometimes a hurricane of flames. Your "5up3r 1337 5ci3n7ific" evidence doesn't prove anything. The Forerunners can do it and survive it.[/quote] What? Boiling away the atmosphere requires 77 petatons, but melting the crust of the planet requires several exatons. If the crust was destroyed, the atmosphere would be long gone. Again, you're bull-blam!- about things you have no understanding of, and you know it. [quote] A: Because they're needed? We didn't know the energy output of, say, the Covenant's energy projector, but someone calculated it to be about 20 kilotons per second.[/quote] Except this is quite clearly not accurate. The games show them and MACs in the sub-kiloton (are you going to reply to me in the other thread yet about this?) [quote] But in this case, we don't need the analysis. The facts are there.[/quote] Want to know how that number was received? By analysis. [quote] A: Again, DOES THAT MAKE IT ANY LESS TRUE??? In fact, thank you for pointing that out. We now knoe the Forerunner combat skins are even more badass then originall thought.[/quote] Thank YOU for pointing out you haven't even gone to high school and literally know nothing about basic physics. [quote] And so what if they can walk on lava? The Space Marine crashed into a friggin' STAR and survived, but we're not saying it isn't possible. Because its FICTION. [/quote] Except that's not the same, at all. A star like the sun generates 90 PT/s, and has a radius of 695,500 kilometers. This gets us an energy density of 62 megawatts per cubic meter. Assuming that a Space Marine's power armor has an area of 3 cubic meters, he would receive 186 megajoules each second while in that star. It might receive a fair amount of damage, but if it's only in and near the star for a brief moment, it can in fact survive. Very different from tanking a petaton explosion. [quote] A: Halo doesn't use real physics when you get into the ancient times. For contemporary Halo, yeah it does. But everything befor that is to advanced to be possible.[/quote] No, it doesn't work like that. Destroying a crust is not possible with ground infantry unless there is notable physics -blam!- occurring. [quote] A: Firstly, the games NEVER give ANY description on Forerunner armor, merely a rating system. And again, does the fact that Forerunners could crack crusts but have nothing to walk on make it any less of a fact? We don't know exactley how the Forerunner's armor works other then that it makes you nearly immortal and the Didact's armor could shoot Iron Man esque lasers from his palms. Who knows, maybe they can fly.[/quote] ... Which. You. Haven't. Any. Proof. Of. [quote] A: Pray tell, when does Halo 1 give any description of Forerunner armor capabilities?[/quote] It gives Master Chief's armor a rating of 2 (oh, armor that can't survive a few gigajoules is on a scale with armor that can survive a few exatons, no sweat), and Forerunner armor a rating of 12. Also, if Flood can puncture those suits, then so would a petaton. [quote] A: Yeah, we did.[/quote] Claiming that those were forerunner ground forces for that one quote isn't proof. However, given your failure at basic reading comprehension - never mind you should go back to high school and figure out why you've made yourself look dumb - it should be no surprise that you would give me the same quote that I asked context for. [quote] A: No, they can beat the Xeelee because their technology cannot be destroyed.[/quote] Proof? [quote] It would at the very least result in a tie, but if mortal humans can fight them, a race of inivincible super-beings with impossible to conceive technology sure as hell can. [/quote] Haha, no. The Xeelee make use of construction material completely unharmed by anything other than magnetic monopoles and black holes. They flung galaxies as bullets during the Photino Bird/Xeelee war. They use omniscient machines that answer questions before they are even asked. They have handguns that destroy stars. They created the Ring that was made up from thousands of galaxies. They bioengineered themselves in the beginning of the universe via time travel so that they were always the rulers of the universe. They were also ahead of everyone else because they normally looked decades to centuries into the future. And if there was ever a problem for the Xeelee (only occurred with the Photino Birds), the Anti-Xeelee would come and fix it via time travel. The Xeelee humans, however, created things similar (given that they were using Xeelee technology), as well as ringworlds light years in diameter, and modified humans to being able of living in the cores of neutron stars. They weren't even considered a threat to the Xeelee, who just closed their stars in Xeelee construction material. The Xeelee placed Earth in a small cube several meters in diameters on the outside, but light years on the inside. Then, later, a single Xeelee Nightfighter (that are all over the universe in uncountable numbers) recreated Earth to its original state in one week. The Precursors are nowhere even a minor threat to the Xeelee. But, let's not derail this horribly off track thread any more. [quote] We have. [/quote] Actually, you haven't yet. [Edited on 01.29.2011 7:16 PM PST]

Answers in quote. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Frauka [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II Yes ground forces can destroy crusts.That battle was when the forerunners invaded the homeworld of the prophets.That's how the planet looks like when ground forces invade it.[/quote] Congratulations, you know nothing about what you're talking about. LET'S actually do some work to debunk this idiocy. First, Sentinels do not crack crusts, or even tank weapons that can destroy crusts, and that goes for a massed Onyx Sentinel army. In Halo Origin, we see Forerunners firing weapons in an atmosphere, and the entire planet isn't engulfed in an explosion, strange right? Second, you showed no picture of the Prophet homeworld, or how it was destroyed, but what. Get to it. A: 1) They weren't Sentinels. They were warriors and their warrior craft. 2) Frank O'Connor himself says in the commentary for Legends to take Origins with an epic grain of salt since Cortana barely was sane let alone knew what the Forerunners looked like or their weapons. 3) How the -blam!- do you expect him to post pictures from a book? Besides, 343 is in control of Halo now. Whatever they say goes. Halo: Cryptum is what they say. [quote] Wanna know what kind of body armors the Forerunners weared?: [url]http://www.halopedian.com/War_Sphinx[/url] [/quote] That tells me NOTHING about them. The ONLY quote demonstrating Forerunner armor is in Halo 1, when Guilty Spark 343 mentions Master Chief's Spartan II armor being level 2 on the Forerunner armor scale, and that it would necessary that he upgraded to level 12. Oh gee, even if it increased his durability by 10 orders of magnitudes, he would still not be able to survive a crust destroying weapon, or even a millionth of that. Since games > novels, then any nonsense suggesting exaton weapons and armor is overruled and non canon. A: Again, 343I now dictates canon, not what Bungie stated. [quote] The capabilities of those badasses are: -They can be dropped from high orbit -They can sweep continents and decimate entire citys [/quote] Oh, and I suppose you can prove that? If they could do that, the Flood would have not been a problem for any Forerunner infantry, unlike what we see in Halo: Origins. A: Again, once more, Origins is to be taken extremely crarefully. And do yu honestly think we saw ALL of their weapon capabilities? If so you're an idiot. And the Flood WOULD have been a problem since they--by nature--take control of the weapons of their enemies. Whatever power the enemies have the Flood has. [quote] -They can rip apart entire starships with their strenght and throw those starships into a planet[/quote] If they can do that, then they aren't really standard ground infantry the others were trying to pass them off as, are they? A: They are called War Sphinxes. [quote] And no we are not exagerating on thei capabilities,they can do it.It's a fact. [/quote] Yet you don't even tell me the context. If you can't do that, I will just assume you are bull-blam!- :) A: Context being WHY the Forerunners did what they did? Easy. The Prophets pissed them off. They took up arms against the Forerunners in rebellion. The Forerunners proceeded to rip the planet's crust off and turn the planet inside out (almost literally). It even says they "met opposition with quick and decisive brutality" in the back of the book. [quote] Look at yourself. You are trying to explain how wrong the crust busting groundforces are with scientific explanations which is highly inaccurate in fiction . [/quote] You don't need to take time to figure out why this is so wrong (even if you haven't even gone to high school) it's not laughable. Before the crust cracks, the atmosphere will die away, then the oceans will boil away, too. Before that happens, however, the entire planet will become a blast wave consisting of the planet's entire surface will be blown around at many hundreds of km/s. The ground forces will be CRUSHED by the impacts (if they weren't already vaporized by an atmosphere thousands to tens of thousands of Kelvins hot and entirely blinding and white), which will leave storms of plasma behind them. It is IMPOSSIBLE for ground infantry (and from what we see in Halo 1, Ghosts of Onyx, and Origins, the Forerunners are no exception) to ever do that. Oh, and the massive recoil from their guns will also be an issue. A: does that make it any less true? Bornstellar describes the Prophet homeworld's atmosphere as being made entirely by ash and broiling hot fire, sometimes a hurricane of flames. Your "5up3r 1337 5ci3n7ific" evidence doesn't prove anything. The Forerunners can do it and survive it. Deal with it. [quote] Look i'l just stating a fact about applying science to fiction,you can't do it. [/quote] Yes you can, why do you think analysis for universes are made all the time? A: Because they're needed? We didn't know the energy output of, say, the Covenant's energy projector, but someone calculated it to be about 20 kilotons per second. But in this case, we don't need the analysis. The facts are there. [quote] Exemples: Star wars hyperspace can't be possible as nothing can fly at the speed of light. I could go on all night about things that defy science in comcis and sciencefiction [/quote] I should have known you would go with this "dur, they use fake science, therefor we must not use actual science EVER!!!1!11" bull-blam!- excuse. Listen, kid, even if a universe makes use of faulty science, we should still use real science for the things that can be quantified. It should be a no brainer that if a crust is destroyed, ground forces wouldn't be [i]walking[/i] on solid matter, but instead in magma. A: Again, DOES THAT MAKE IT ANY LESS TRUE??? In fact, thank you for pointing that out. We now knoe the Forerunner combat skins are even more badass then originall thought. And so what if they can walk on lava? The Space Marine crashed into a friggin' STAR and survived, but we're not saying it isn't possible. Because its FICTION. [quote] Consider superman simply hovering above the city.According to newtons second law,there must be some upward force to balance the downward of his weight. [/quote] Superman is from a comic universe that quite clearly real physics has no purpose of existing in. [quote] Or all the water in human torch's body should evaporate within seconds when he transforms into a flame. [/quote] Ditto... [quote] Batman would need super strenght just to not have his arms ripped off when he catches himself midwell with a cable.The sudden stop in these situations would kill him or at least break bones,same with when he falls from a building and stops his descent with a grapling gun would put the same amount of stress on his body,... [/quote] Ditto... Seriously, kid, if you need this to prove why Halo shouldn't use real physics, why should anyone take your arguments seriously? I'm trying to be nice and not calling you out, but you are making this very, very difficult. A: Halo doesn't use real physics when you get into the ancient times. For contemporary Halo, yeah it does. But everything befor that is to advanced to be possible. [quote] Well guess what Forerunner ground forces can destroy the crust, defying science and mechanisms. [/quote] Let me explain something to you. If the crust is gone, then there is no solid matter to walk on. Your infantry would fall into magma. Let me guess, you're going to say something like "there is no magma or mantle under the crusts of planets in Halo!!!!111" and expect me to accept it. It also doesn't make any sense considering what the Halo games make Sentinels and Forerunner armor out to be. Hell, according to you, the Onyx sentinels are obsolete and pathetic, despite protecting an entire shield world. Please, start providing proof. A: Firstly, the games NEVER give ANY description on Forerunner armor, merely a rating system. And again, does the fact that Forerunners could crack crusts but have nothing to walk on make it any less of a fact? We don't know exactley how the Forerunner's armor works other then that it makes you nearly immortal and the Didact's armor could shoot Iron Man esque lasers from his palms. Who knows, maybe they can fly. [quote] If you disagree then you are conflicting the Halo canon [/quote] You are by contradicting Halo 1. A: Pray tell, when does Halo 1 give any description of Forerunner armor capabilities? [quote] According to Bungie : -Games -books,comics,...(Cryptum) -The rest You or any science laws aren't in this list [/quote] ... And you haven't provided quotes for this scene yet. A: Yeah, we did. "The atmosphere below was a swirling soup of smoke and fire. Warrior craft and automated weapon systems were mostly to small to be visible, but I saw their effects darting beams of needle light, glowing arcs cutting across conti- nents, gigantic, stamplike divots punched into the crust and then lifted up, spun about, overturned. I had never seen anything like this--but the Didact had" [quote] Halo canon>>>>>>>>>>>Your bull-blam!- claims [/quote] Your claims < someone else's word < canon :) Also, Precursors can beat the Xeelee because they are "transentient (oh God, something that tells us nothing is proof that the Xeelee lose. Kid, take debating lessons or something), am I right? A: No, they can beat the Xeelee because their technology cannot be destroyed. It would at the very least result in a tie, but if mortal humans can fight them, a race of inivincible super-beings with impossible to conceive technology sure as hell can. [quote] Never try to ignore evidence in sciencefiction with using real life laws as your main arguments. The book doesn't mentions any orbital bombardement in that battle,it shows the ground battle. [/quote] Prove it :)[/quote] We have.

I'm sure SM's can survive more than that. You need LITTLE chunks blown out in their armor when their being shot from massive guns. Look at most models. A weapon that makes a SLaser look weak can kill a spartan.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ExquisiteDragon Spartan-II. [/quote] No, just no.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kalriq On top of that, reading the Horus Heresy books you'll see just how easily some Space Marines can die, if they have Terminator armour, of course they'll win, but in their regular Power Armour a well placed Ballistic can tear one apart.[/quote] ... Holy crap. Can you provide actual evidence, for ONCE? The Spartan dies to 7.62x51mm NATO rounds. Such rounds would not be a problem to a Space Marine unarmored. A bolter, however, would defeat the energy shields, with one shot, and then the Spartan with another. [quote] I think they would be even, up until the Space Marine's armour failed - remember, while a Spartan's shields can regenerate, you can only blow so many chunks out of ceramite armour, before there are some gaping holes in it.[/quote] Except a Spartan's MA5 weapons can't even harm a Space Marine. [Edited on 01.29.2011 5:54 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kalriq On top of that, reading the Horus Heresy books you'll see just how easily some Space Marines can die, if they have Terminator armour, of course they'll win, but in their regular Power Armour a well placed Ballistic can tear one apart.[/quote] Yeah, but everything in the Warhammer universe is overpowered as hell.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ociee You assume that a SPARTAN who has been trained since childhood would be dumb enough to attack an opponent that is much stronger than him.....SPARTANS are masters of guerrilla warfare. The Space Marine would never see the Spartan. Also Space Marines look so f**king retarded..... [/quote] Woah... fanboy alert. OT, Space Marine. Don't they have multiple organs as well?

What kind of joke question is this? Thousands of years in the future vs. 500 years in the future. That's like asking what would win, a platoon of Navy Seals or 300 Greek Spartans.

a fair match for spartans are space marine scouts, but other than that its space marines definitely

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kalriq A Spartan - Space Marines don't have energy shields, and although they have pretty thick armour, they still die pretty easy. [/quote] So they don't have energy shields like Spartans, therefor they lose? Does ANYONE here have the common sense of a debater? Really, those energy shields can only tank a couple dozen plasma bolts thousands to tens of thousands of times weaker than Tau plasma rifles (that still can't kill a SM, btw).