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1/25/2011 7:42:35 PM
210
Haven't we already been through this?
From the new rules:
[quote]Do not discuss unauthorized modification of console game hardware or software, even if you're not trying to cheat or pirate.[/quote]
In my philosophy of law class yesterday, we discussed why exactly laws are so complicated. Everyone interprets them differently, and their meanings change over time.
But why does this rule have to be so vague? What's the goal of the rule? To prevent people using Bungie.net to find out how to cheat? To prevent people from using this site to find out how to mod their 360? To stop all discussion on modifications?
If it's to prevent cheating, why not just combing this rule with the rule about cheating? "Detailing methods of cheating, including console modifications is not allowed".
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To stop people discussing modded xbox's.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HeyBlade789 To stop people discussing modded xbox's.[/quote] OK. But plenty of mods are perfectly fine. If I spray painted a design onto the faceplate, that's a modification.
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Notice the key word here. "Do not discuss "[b]unauthorized[/b]" modification of console game hardware or software, even if you're not trying to cheat or pirate." Microsoft has not nor will it ever say that you cant draw on your own system.
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I believe that ANY console modification, technical or aesthetical, are not allowed to be discussed, since they technically fall under the "unauthorized" part of that rule.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] coolmike699 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HeyBlade789 To stop people discussing modded xbox's.[/quote] OK. But plenty of mods are perfectly fine. If I spray painted a design onto the faceplate, that's a modification. [/quote] If you leave a law open you have the chance to over inturperate it and obey it in any way you think plausible. Its common sense you can mod a xbox design. That is not what this rule of bungie is saying. They promote cool stuff like that especially if it is Bungie based arts. Simply You are not allowed to promote, talk of or question anything to do with cheating, game play modification or hacking. Keep it out of your topics and post. That is all they are asking. Make your own website if you want to be found guilty of Hacking, stealing and or cheating. [Edited on 01.25.2011 11:53 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HANTER 03 Microsoft has not nor will it ever say that you cant draw on your own system. [/quote]Microsoft also [i]cannot[/i] say that you cannot install modchips with the potential to break copyright restrictions - it has no right to do so. In fact, there's really not much that can be described as "unauthorised"; almost all rights lie with the end user, with the notable exception of software, and even that can be torn to shreds in the name of academia. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn I believe that ANY console modification, technical or aesthetical, are not allowed to be discussed, since they technically fall under the "unauthorized" part of that rule.[/quote]Same thing here. No such thing as unauthorised. You have the right to do whatever you choose with your hardware, and pretty much the right to do whatever you want with the software you use. As long as "you" means "you" of course, and not "you and whoever is going to read the guide you wrote" or "you and your mates who you're charging £20 a pop". [Edited on 01.25.2011 11:54 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ArchAssain [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] coolmike699 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HeyBlade789 To stop people discussing modded xbox's.[/quote] OK. But plenty of mods are perfectly fine. If I spray painted a design onto the faceplate, that's a modification. [/quote] If you leave a law open you have the chance to over inturperate it and obey it in any way you think plausible. Its common sense you can mod a xbox design. That is not what this rule of bungie is saying. They promote cool stuff like that especially if it is Bungie based arts. Simply You are not allowed to promote, talk of or question anything to do with cheating, game play modification or hacking. Keep it out of your topics and post. That is all they are asking. Make your own website if you want to be found guilty of Hacking, stealing and or cheating. [/quote] Thats too deep, that rule is clear enough, any unaouthorized modding isn;t allowed. If they had to insert 'But its ok for asthetic reason's like painting stuff' it doesn't have the same ring to it, its nice and clear
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Well modding the Xbox and not being signed up to Xbox LIVE is perfectly fine and doesn't get you banned.
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To be fair the rule isn't really vague. Don't make threads discussing modding or modded consoles. [Edited on 01.25.2011 11:58 AM PST]
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I think you showing off your cool Xbox paint-job isn't going to get you banned. Use our head, silly.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Maimum FEAR To be fair the rule isn't really vague. Don't make threads discussing modding consoles.[/quote]You're right, the rule isn't at all vague. It just doesn't mean what you, nor, apparently, the author think it means. [Edited on 01.25.2011 11:57 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] superduper66 I think you showing off your cool Xbox paint-job isn't going to get you banned. Use our head, silly.[/quote] Also remember the forum rules are pretty general, Ninjas don't follow them to every mintues detail, they can use their discretion
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I would give a well thought out response but I'm much too busy splitting these hairs.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ArchAssain [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] coolmike699 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HeyBlade789 To stop people discussing modded xbox's.[/quote] OK. But plenty of mods are perfectly fine. If I spray painted a design onto the faceplate, that's a modification. [/quote] If you leave a law open you have the chance to over inturperate it and obey it in any way you think plausible. Its common sense you can mod a xbox design. That is not what this rule of bungie is saying. They promote cool stuff like that especially if it is Bungie based arts. Simply You are not allowed to promote, talk of or question anything to do with cheating, game play modification or hacking. Keep it out of your topics and post. That is all they are asking. Make your own website if you want to be found guilty of Hacking, stealing and or cheating. [/quote] Note the part of the rule that says " even if you're not trying to cheat or pirate."
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Maimum FEAR To be fair the rule isn't really vague. Don't make threads discussing modding consoles.[/quote]You're right, the rule isn't at all vague. It just doesn't mean what you, nor, apparently, the author think it means.[/quote] Fair enough, the modding of your personal console isn't unauthorised. But to effectively get the point of that rule across to the general population that word probably needs to be present.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Maimum FEAR Fair enough, the modding of your personal console isn't unauthorised. But to effectively get the point of that rule across to the general population that word probably needs to be present.[/quote]This would be wonderful, if it weren't for the fact that inclusion of that particular word completely changes the meaning of the rule. "Please do not discuss software or hardware modifications" and "Please do not discuss unauthorised software or hardware modifications" are, to all intents and purposes, complete polar opposites.
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They are unauthorized by the both creator of the hardware and the software. That isn't a claim about enforcement or law in the "real world". However, just like political and religious discussion, we've elected to not talk about such things here. The forum rules aren't about "legal" and "illegal" - they are about what Bungie has chosen as its policies for this forum. I don't care what you are doing on your own time, nor am I interested in a philosophical argument about this topic. Bungie.net's public forums are simply not going to be the place to discuss this. I imagine the private groups can help you here, as well as numerous sites on the internet dedicated to such topics. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker In fact, there's really not much that can be described as "unauthorised"; almost all rights lie with the end user[/quote]
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[quote][b]Do not discuss unauthorized modification of console game hardware or software[/b], even if you're not trying to cheat or pirate.[/quote] I bolded the main gist of the rule. Spray painting a design on your Xbox isn't an unauthorized modification of console game hardware or software. Hell, if it was, I would've been banned on Xbox Live for spray painting my XBox pink with Robot Unicorn Attack on there. Metal Edition of course.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Maimum FEAR Fair enough, the modding of your personal console isn't unauthorised. But to effectively get the point of that rule across to the general population that word probably needs to be present.[/quote]This would be wonderful, if it weren't for the fact that inclusion of that particular word completely changes the meaning of the rule. "Please do not discuss software or hardware modifications" and "Please do not discuss unauthorised software or hardware modifications" are, to all intents and purposes, complete polar opposites.[/quote] At the end of the day though, we all know what it's talking about and thus what we are not allowed to talk about.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos They are unauthorized by the both creator of the hardware and the software.[/quote]They're opposed by the creator, as i said, they have no right to "authorise" anything. Once they've flogged a product to you, it's yours. You may not wish to get into a debate about the philosophy of this particular issue, but by putting things in terms of "authorisation", you've brought it up. If you don't want people to talk about mods of any type, say that. Don't predicate it with what you clearly consider to be fluff.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] coolmike699 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ArchAssain [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] coolmike699 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HeyBlade789 To stop people discussing modded xbox's.[/quote] OK. But plenty of mods are perfectly fine. If I spray painted a design onto the faceplate, that's a modification. [/quote] If you leave a law open you have the chance to over inturperate it and obey it in any way you think plausible. Its common sense you can mod a xbox design. That is not what this rule of bungie is saying. They promote cool stuff like that especially if it is Bungie based arts. Simply You are not allowed to promote, talk of or question anything to do with cheating, game play modification or hacking. Keep it out of your topics and post. That is all they are asking. Make your own website if you want to be found guilty of Hacking, stealing and or cheating. [/quote] Note the part of the rule that says " even if you're not trying to cheat or pirate." [/quote] That falls into place when some members will say: "but but I wasn't trying to." *crys* That was my interpretation. No exceptions no excuses, if you get caught you get punished plain and simple. It is up to your common sense and logic to determine what is and isn't acceptable within regards to modding the internal or external hardware or software of your xbox. Or anything to do with your account and or other player's accounts.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos They are unauthorized by the both creator of the hardware and the software. That isn't a claim about enforcement or law in the "real world". However, just like political and religious discussion, we've elected to not talk about such things here. The forum rules aren't about "legal" and "illegal" - they are about what Bungie has chosen as its policies for this forum. I don't care what you are doing on your own time, nor am I interested in a philosophical argument about this topic. Bungie.net's public forums are simply not going to be the place to discuss this. I imagine the private groups can help you here, as well as numerous sites on the internet dedicated to such topics. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker In fact, there's really not much that can be described as "unauthorised"; almost all rights lie with the end user[/quote][/quote] Then why isn't the rule "No discussion of console modification"? "Unauthorized" seems like the wrong word here. Console manufacturers can't "authorize" a modification.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Maimum FEAR [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Maimum FEAR Fair enough, the modding of your personal console isn't unauthorised. But to effectively get the point of that rule across to the general population that word probably needs to be present.[/quote]This would be wonderful, if it weren't for the fact that inclusion of that particular word completely changes the meaning of the rule. "Please do not discuss software or hardware modifications" and "Please do not discuss unauthorised software or hardware modifications" are, to all intents and purposes, complete polar opposites.[/quote] At the end of the day though, we all know what it's talking about and thus what we are not allowed to talk about.[/quote] We do?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Maimum FEAR [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Maimum FEAR Fair enough, the modding of your personal console isn't unauthorised. But to effectively get the point of that rule across to the general population that word probably needs to be present.[/quote]This would be wonderful, if it weren't for the fact that inclusion of that particular word completely changes the meaning of the rule. "Please do not discuss software or hardware modifications" and "Please do not discuss unauthorised software or hardware modifications" are, to all intents and purposes, complete polar opposites.[/quote] At the end of the day though, we all know what it's talking about and thus what we are not allowed to talk about.[/quote]If "we" did, this thread wouldn't be here.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos They are unauthorized by the both creator of the hardware and the software.[/quote]They're opposed by the creator, as i said, they have no right to "authorise" anything. Once they've flogged a product to you, it's yours. You may not wish to get into a debate about the philosophy of this particular issue, but by putting things in terms of "authorisation", you've brought it up. If you don't want people to talk about mods of any type, say that. Don't predicate it with what you clearly consider to be fluff.[/quote]Though it pains me to side with authority here, I think the term "authorization" could be interpreted (broadly) to mean what Microsoft does and does not allow on their Xbox LIVE network (which is very relevant to B.net for obvious reasons), and thus the point made in the rules is a valid one.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RighteousTyrant Though it pains me to side with authority here, I think the term "authorization" could be interpreted (broadly) to mean what Microsoft does and does not allow on their Xbox LIVE network (which is very relevant to B.net for obvious reasons), and thus the point made in the rules is a valid one. [/quote]So what you're saying is that instead of taking the actual meaning of the word, we should take a game- and publisher-specific interpretation that doesn't even make a lot of sense?
