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2014-07-23T06:50:45Z

#Halo

dibbs089

dibbs089

6/20/2010 11:16:20 PM
The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory [b]*Disclaimer*[/b] [i]I will state right off the bat that I am almost one hundred percent sure that this is NOT the story/explanation Bungie/343 Studies will use when explaining the Forerunner. This is intended to be a creative way of thinking about the halo universe and although I state in the title that it is a theory it does contain some of my own (read: unsubstantiated) writing. Said writing is intended to be a helpful guide in explaining what I am talking about. [u]It is not intended to be a proof for any of my conjectures[/u]. This also discusses some religious elements, so those of you that are conservative in your religious teachings I ask only that you consider this possible within a video game. In addition, this is a substantial piece of writing. For those of you who don't like reading or who will not read the whole thing, leave now. As for the rest of you, come with an open mind and consider how this could be possible and I promise you will not be disappointed.[/i] Version - 1.1 - Added "The Forerunner knew how to clone bodies from DNA samples" to the list of proofs under [b]The Duality of the Halo Array and its Secondary Purpose[/b]. Added a quote from the terminals which suggests the existence of souls to the two conditions I ask the readers to accept at the end of the philosophical piece. This idea began with exploring the Covenants' explanation of the Great Journey which stated that the Forerunner were able to transcend the physical world and become divine beings by activating the Halo array. While no theory can be one hundred percent correct, I believe also that no theory can be one hundred percent wrong. But if the Halo arrays were meant to destroy life, how could the Covenant possibly be correct? [quote][/quote] [b]What We Are[/b] In order for this theory to work we must first come to an understanding of what exactly we are. Well, that's easy right? We're humans. But I'm trying to dig a little deeper than that. What is the thing that makes us, us? It isn't our bodies. Perhaps, as some scientists and philosophers suggest it is our individual minds, our brain so to speak. The mind-body distinction has been around since the days of Socrates and many find it reasonable to stop there. I however consider there to be a triad as opposed to a duality. Many religions have come to the conclusion that what we are, our very essence and being, is our soul. While the idea of the soul fits into this theory, the mysticism and theology that surround that idea have made it unfavorable to the scientific community. The following is a theory I wrote for a philosophy class (I know what you're thinking, but it is relevant, trust me). It draws HEAVILY on the ideas of Descartes such as [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind-body_dichotomy]Mind-Body Dichotomy[/url] and those of David Hume on [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume#The_self]the self[/url], particularly [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundle_theory]Bundle Theory[/url]. However, these are my ideas and they remain unsubstantiated. [b]Although this piece of writing is lengthy, I do not ask that you accept all of it as true[/b] It is here only to help you have a better understanding of what I am talking about. The only two things I ask you to accept are outlined after this piece. [Edited on 08.06.2010 3:07 PM PDT]
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  • dibbs089

    dibbs089

    7/8/2010 11:38:21 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude [quote]GRAVEMIND: This one's containment... Gravemind gestures to 2401 Penitent Tangent GRAVEMIND: ...and this one's Great Journey... Gravemind gestures to Regret GRAVEMIND: ...are the same.[/quote] Though I don't personally think there is any form of transcendence via the Halo activation there is definitely a strong suggestion from Mr G. I've always wondered about this quote.[/quote] It's no secret that Halo is full of religious elements. Bungie has already reinterpreted the story of Noah's Arc and the Flood, why not go for the biggest one of all and try for a legitimate reinterpretation of Heaven? This was an attempt to show how that could be possible given what we already know about the Halo Universe.
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  • flamedude

    flamedude

    7/8/2010 11:22:06 PM Permalink
    [quote]GRAVEMIND: This one's containment... Gravemind gestures to 2401 Penitent Tangent GRAVEMIND: ...and this one's Great Journey... Gravemind gestures to Regret GRAVEMIND: ...are the same.[/quote] Though I don't personally think there is any form of transcendence via the Halo activation there is definitely a strong suggestion from Mr G. I've always wondered about this quote.
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  • AlexWIWA sXe

    AlexWIWA sXe

    7/8/2010 4:39:16 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NiViN PEOPLE!!! This is a GAME!!![/quote]And yet you had the audacity to create an account on this website for [b]this game[/b] and comment on a theory for [b]this game[/b]. Halo is a game, but we like to expand on it because it's interesting.
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  • Lord Snakie

    Lord Snakie

    7/8/2010 12:24:55 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NiViN PEOPLE!!! This is a GAME!!![/quote] And? It's one of the most expansive videogame universes in history.
  • NiViN
  • dibbs089

    dibbs089

    7/8/2010 12:22:08 AM Permalink
    Kippa, first off WOW, thank you for that response. That was an incredibly detailed overview of my philosophical piece and much appreciated. Also, you don't have to feel like a jerk. We are both searching for the truth and I'm above feeling offended if the validity of what I say is called into question by someone who is more knowledgeable on the subject. That being said there are some things I would like to discuss with you, but it would be better to do that through e-mail. I had hoped however that the theory and not my own work would be analyzed as such. It was included to help readers get a sense of what I was talking about in my theory, but it is unfortunately proving to be more and more detrimental to it. If you could analyze the theory in the same way as you did the philosophical piece, I would be much indebted.
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  • kippa

    kippa

    7/7/2010 1:00:05 PM Permalink
    [u]Descartes[/u] Rene Descartes once had a horrible dream. It consisted of him waking on morning and going about his routine. Then he woke up and realised the vivid dream of his normal routine had in fact been a dream. He then woke up. And realised once again that it had been a dream. This continued to happen to him, until he did properly awake. At this stage, Descartes asked himself, "How can I know that what I am seeing is real". After thinking more on this, he went away and begun his Meditations. The sum of his meditations were this. God is real and Innate in all of us, and Cogito Ergo Sum, "I think therefore I am". It's based around the idea that 'what if' an evil demon is tricking our senses, what can be know is real. The answer is, if we are thinking, then we must exist. The conclusion of 'Cogito Ergo Sum' is not reliant on external factors. You wrote: [quote]First, that I am, I exist. Second, that I am a thinking being capable of forming thoughts about the world around me.[/quote] This is not true. Descartes' statement came with the fine print that the mind only existed when involved in Mathematics or Pure Logic. Mathematics (without application, aka pure mathematics) and Pure Logic (deduction, syllogistic logic for starters) are a universal constant, there is no necessity of the senses in it's production. [quote]Descartes holds that the body and mind are two separate substances; working in unison no doubt, but also independent of one another.[/quote] Descartes has actually been quoted as saying that the Soul resides in the Pineal Gland located where the two thelamic bodies join. He was a mathematician, a scientist, a religious man and a philosopher. Although the Pineal Gland theory has been dismissed, he still believed it. [quote]I believe that I am what the religious would call a soul; a being of energy working in tangent with both my body and mind in order to achieve life. I do not believe that I am supernatural in that I am made from God and that the essence of me is not of this earth.[/quote] The soul and the body have very many differing religious approaches. I myself am not a religious person. Nonetheless, there are some religions that believe in the sanctity of the body and the soul, others believing that the body is a prison for the soul (see 'self flagellation'). The Soul itself is mostly considered to be the same thing. It is our person and a part of God. We also have Free Will, it allows us to determine who we are. Also, there is nothing Supernatural about God. If God is in fact existing, then he has not bestowed you with a soul that is in no way other-worldly. If He does exist, then it is entirely worldly. [quote]It would follow that plants and animals as well are endowed with this energy.[/quote] It does not follow. In all of the major three monotheistic religious texts, the Torah, the Koran and the Bible, animals and plants are said not to have souls. [quote]I will venture a guess here and say that the energy comes from cells themselves.[/quote] This is kind of circular logic. Up until this point you build up the idea that the Soul, or Energy, is your life force. With this statement, you are saying that the Soul/Energy is powered by the cells. Previously you were building up the notion that the Soul/Energy powered the cells. It's kind of mutually exclusive. [quote]The proof that energy is different from the mind is the notion of decision. Remember, the mind is a thinking thing as are we. However, the mind is not only limited to thought. The mind retains... ... It is truly a marvel in itself and if we were to try and control all of its actions in addition to living life, we would not be able to function.)[/quote] You said up above that you were doing Philosophical studies, so I'm sure that you're aware of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism]Dualism[/url]. From what I gather, in this first section you are saying that you personally believe in a triad of self existance. It's a bit confusing and you haven't really concluded with a Mind-Body-???? finish. But as far as I can tell you are basing it on dualistic principles plus something else. I personally believe that you have just confused your syntax and thrown in a whole bunch of lexicon. You've disassociated the Body aspect of the theory by calling it the Mind. [quote] Remember, the mind is a thinking thing as are we. However, the mind is not only limited to thought. The mind retains information and is able to recall it when situations arise that require specific information.[/quote] This is very much a function of the human brain, which is Body. The brain, or as you were calling it, the Mind, is in charge of a lot of things that we do passively. The beat of our heart, the breathing of our lungs and the example that you used, the retention of information. At this stage it's convoluted further. [quote]This is how we are able to make split second decisions and arrive at logical conclusions, because the mind evaluates the information we have learned and provides us with what is most relevant at a time of need.[/quote] The Mind which you have declared to be passive, is now making decisions without active thought process of the Dualist Mind. But! We know that in a situation like the fire you mention, we all would actively be thinking about outcomes. [quote]What it cannot do, however, is act on those decisions and determine the right choice of action.[/quote] The Brain/Our Body, although retrieving the information for us, isn't making conclusions then sending it to the Mind, it is working in concert. That's Dualism. From that point on, I'm sorry but I can't really make sense of it. Try breaking it down into [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic#Syllogistic_logic]syllogistic logic[/url] (x=y, y=z, therefore x=z). Actually [url=http://www.philosophypages.com/lg/e08a.htm]this site[/url] is even better. It's a fairly crude form of pure logic, but it can help to outline clearly how you're reaching your conclusions. [quote]I think I have sufficiently proved that what we are is indeed separate from the body and mind, yet utterly dependent on both to define the essence of what we are.[/quote] All you have created here is another form of Humanism with different labels. You have used lexicology such as Body and Mind, but to mean the same thing. In Body, you seem to have referred to arms and legs, and Mind you seem to mean Brain. The third element you attempt to glue onto this is the metaphysical mind. But without doing so much as saying that. [quote]The Milky Way galaxy is 1000 light years thick and has a diameter of 100,000 light years. In addition the universe is composed of HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of galaxies. Thus, even traveling at the fastest speed possible, that of light, and assuming heaven and hell were exactly outside of the Milky Way, it would still take 1,000 years after death to reach those places.[/quote] This actually does not mean anything. You are mixing two things that are totally binary and mutually exclusive. Heaven and Hell would be located outside of the universe? They're not physical PLACES. There is a transcedence involved, the soul rejoining with God and being part of one huge over-arching entity. It is something totally metaphysical and not at all a substance located within any travellable distance. Depictions of Heaven and Hell as places are simply that, Human interpretations of heavenly (adjective) bliss, and hellish (adjective) existance. Transcedence is beyond our comprehension so paintings depict as well as we can imagine. Essentially you've written plain Materialism with a David M. Armstrong twist on the Human mind and perception, with a dash of Frued's Id, Ego and Superego. The only way this could be considered as Dualism (at the most) is if we count the giant question mark at the end to be rhetorical because you obviously mean the part... that is us... outside of ourselves... that is totally us... even though the mind and body is us.... is the metaphysical energy soul... thing that isn't the mind but something else that can't remember things itself, and doesn't make decisions but holds the essence of our being. Regardless it's somehow a transcedence of our being and is therefore seperate but in concert with the body. [quote][/quote] I'm quite tired now so I didn't get around to reading the rest because there was so much I wanted to say about that section. I feel like a bit of a jerk, but this is just how I see it after also studying philosophy for 3 years.
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  • dibbs089

    dibbs089

    7/1/2010 12:04:41 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] drummer0702 It pretty much comes down to the fact that it can't be refuted. There is not enough knowledge on the topic. Also you have admitted that you doubt this is what the actual story is, so what can we really add to this? [/quote] It may not be able to be refuted but that doesn't mean it can't be discussed. I think you are getting too wrapped up in the philosophical piece I wrote. That was included so that people would have a better understanding of what I was talking about. Of that entire piece I was only asking for two conditions to be accepted (which are stated in the OP); one of which is present (and assumed accepted as not necessarily true but believed by many) in both the Halo Universe and in the real world as well. There seems to be one of two options left to you then. You can either agree with what I am posting, or you can disagree and explain the reasons why you disagree using examples. This thread was created to encourage discussion about the different possibilities Bungie could take. Although I stated that I do not think this is the explanation Bungie will use, I believe I have provided ample evidence to suggest that this is a possible scenario. If this isn't the case I welcome someone who can explain to me why that is so.
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  • drummer0702

    drummer0702

    6/24/2010 6:37:35 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dibbs089 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lord Snakie As I said when I first reviewed this for you, taking your own ideas based around the writings of Descartes and infusing them into Halo lore makes this theory less and less likely. You're taking your own thoughts and infusing them into the Halo universe, and it simply doesn't work like that. While you can stretch the facts a little to create a theory-turned-story (see: Precursor theories), you can't take a story and turn it into a theory. While this technically fits the universe of Halo, it's more of a story influenced by your own thoughts than something that the developers would have likely considered and implemented. This is, as I said originally, a fan fiction rather than a theory.[/quote] Snakie, good to see you and thank you for commenting. I realize that the inclusion of something I wrote is somewhat detrimental to this. I felt it would be relevant to include given the abstract nature of what it is I'm talking about. As I said before, the only two points I'm asking you to take away from that are that in the Bungie Universe, souls exist (and since they have been referenced more then once I assume that to be a given) and that these souls are in fact matter and thus have the same properties as matter (a bit of a philosophical stretch I admit, but nothing too abstract). Perhaps the inclusion of my own writing detracted from this much more then it added to it however... However I believe the rest of the theory is solid and is backed up by a decent amount of evidence. Is there anything in particular that is too far-fetched or not supported enough?[/quote] It pretty much comes down to the fact that it can't be refuted. There is not enough knowledge on the topic. Also you have admitted that you doubt this is what the actual story is, so what can we really add to this?
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  • dibbs089

    dibbs089

    6/24/2010 2:22:09 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lord Snakie As I said when I first reviewed this for you, taking your own ideas based around the writings of Descartes and infusing them into Halo lore makes this theory less and less likely. You're taking your own thoughts and infusing them into the Halo universe, and it simply doesn't work like that. While you can stretch the facts a little to create a theory-turned-story (see: Precursor theories), you can't take a story and turn it into a theory. While this technically fits the universe of Halo, it's more of a story influenced by your own thoughts than something that the developers would have likely considered and implemented. This is, as I said originally, a fan fiction rather than a theory.[/quote] Snakie, good to see you and thank you for commenting. I realize that the inclusion of something I wrote is somewhat detrimental to this. I felt it would be relevant to include given the abstract nature of what it is I'm talking about. As I said before, the only two points I'm asking you to take away from that are that in the Bungie Universe, souls exist (and since they have been referenced more then once I assume that to be a given) and that these souls are in fact matter and thus have the same properties as matter (a bit of a philosophical stretch I admit, but nothing too abstract). Perhaps the inclusion of my own writing detracted from this much more then it added to it however... However I believe the rest of the theory is solid and is backed up by a decent amount of evidence. Is there anything in particular that is too far-fetched or not supported enough?
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  • Lord Snakie

    Lord Snakie

    6/24/2010 1:50:33 AM Permalink
    As I said when I first reviewed this for you, taking your own ideas based around the writings of Descartes and infusing them into Halo lore makes this theory less and less likely. You're taking your own thoughts and infusing them into the Halo universe, and it simply doesn't work like that. While you can stretch the facts a little to create a theory-turned-story (see: Precursor theories), you can't take a story and turn it into a theory. While this technically fits the universe of Halo, it's more of a story influenced by your own thoughts than something that the developers would have likely considered and implemented. This is, as I said originally, a fan fiction rather than a theory.
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  • drummer0702

    drummer0702

    6/21/2010 4:34:11 AM Permalink
    There really isn't much to say here. The obvious thing is that this is clearly far-fetched and based off a piece of work that is not accepted by other Scholars. Of course you already addressed this and everything. Personally I thought the purpose of the Shield worlds were pretty obvious in relation to this theory.
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  • dibbs089

    dibbs089

    6/21/2010 2:22:18 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Scottus4 There is no reason to believe that, anymore then the Procusors were actually magical invisible pink unicorns that gave birth to the rest of life by -blam!-ing it out of their ass. Why the hell would Shield Worlds be created if it functioned in any other way than destroying all life?[/quote] This is an example of what not to do. If you disagree with something state why and provide evidence to back up your statements. Regardless, your concern is a valid one and has been addressed in the counter arguments section.
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  • Trollheim

    Trollheim

    6/21/2010 1:35:05 AM Permalink
    There is no reason to believe that, anymore then the Procusors were actually magical invisible pink unicorns that gave birth to the rest of life by -blam!-ing it out of their ass. Why the hell would Shield Worlds be created if it functioned in any other way than destroying all life?
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  • dibbs089

    dibbs089

    6/20/2010 11:20:00 PM Permalink
    -Responses to Counter-Arguments- [b]Why would the Shield Worlds even exist if the Halo's had any other purpose besides being weapons?[/b] The Shield Worlds functioned not only as shelters from the initial Halo effects, but also from the Flood infection forms that would be left over as a result of it (remember the Halo effect targeted neural cells in sentient life, something infection forms would not have). They had to live inside the Shield Worlds because it is assumed that a majority of planets that were inhabitable were already overrun by Flood infection forms. They needed to wait until those infection forms died out. My theory also states that they intended these Shield Worlds to be permanent residences, in which case the answer to this question is obvious. [Edited on 06.20.2010 6:15 PM PDT]
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  • dibbs089

    dibbs089

    6/20/2010 11:19:05 PM Permalink
    Why this could be true 1. The sheer amount of protection afforded to these shield worlds as opposed to other Forerunner constructs. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=44840338&postRepeater1-p=1#44873443]Augustus posted a thread here[/url] that questions why the Halo arrays didn't have some form of protection. Perhaps the most important weapons that the Forerunner possessed were evidently devoid of any serious way to protect themselves. If we look at Ghosts of Onyx, we see a different picture on the shield world of Onyx. Onyx had facilities capable of producing 600 sentinels an hour advanced sentinels that were capable of destroying entire fleets of Covenant ships. Why would the Forerunner need that much protection on a world that they would only inhabit for, at most, a few weeks? (They would tell the public they are activating the rings the public would be transported to the shield world (via the Forerunner teleportation system) the rings would fire the public would get out of the shield worlds once the Flood infection forms had died and carry on with their lives/grand plan/whatever). Why would they need so much protection on a world they would only be using for a short amount of time? I think the answer is that they never intended to leave. The advanced sentinels that guard Onyx and presumably the other shield worlds are there for good; protecting the Forerunners artificial heavens from being attacked or accessed by those who weren't meant to access them. 2. How humans could get to the Forerunner Heaven. When Dr. Halsey comes upon the Forerunner slipspace field pods she finds an inscription on the side of them which reads "That which must be protected...behind the sharpened edge of the shield...beyond the reach of the swords...for the reclaimers". Why would the Forerunner give us these seemingly random slipspace pods? I think they literally mean that these are for the reclaimers. These are the keys that will allow us entrance to Heaven. When the Forerunner categorized species I assume they amassed a vast amount of DNA as well. They could very easily have cloned human bodies and stored them in a shield world for safe keeping (We still don't know how the Forerunners repopulated the various planets after the rings fired. Did they literally take every inhabitant, move them to the Ark, and then reseed them? Or would it have been easier to take a DNA sample of as many subjects as they could and then clone replicas which could be used to reseed the planets?).In addition there are various Forerunner artifacts on worlds humans have colonized. Could these artifacts act as a teleportation system to collect the energy of deceased humans and transport them to a shield world; a Heaven? Augustus in his theory [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=35949941]Halo 4 in plain sight[/url] references Log 5 of the IRIS campaign which states [quote] The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, [u]but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose.[/u] If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it.[/quote] He goes on to say [quote] The letter mentions the ark saving us, and another purpose. The portals "true" purpose is where the forerunner (at least some) went. A place probably precursor. Outside the galaxy, some kind of cloud of stellar debri. What could it be? Who knows[/quote] I believe that their true purpose was to transport us somewhere. Only it wasn't designed to transfer our physical bodies somewhere, but rather our energy to the Forerunner shield worlds. In essence, Heaven. [quote][/quote] I thank you all for taking the time to read through it. It is A LOT of text and it is admittedly far fetched. But I think it has validity in a surprising amount of places. In addition, since there will likely be a lot of confrontation regarding this theory, I am adding a "Complaints Addressed" section will I will attempt to answer any valid claim which would shatter this theory. Remember, while no theory can be one hundred percent right, no theory can be one hundred percent wrong either. Hopefully this will be more of the former than the latter. [Edited on 08.06.2010 3:09 PM PDT]
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  • dibbs089

    dibbs089

    6/20/2010 11:18:30 PM Permalink
    [b]The Duality of the Halo Array and its Secondary Purpose[/b] We all know that the primary purpose of the Halo array was to target the neural cells of sentient life (with enough biomass to sustain the Flood) and destroy them. In essence this would starve the Flood and would keep them from consuming all sentient life. What if, however, the rings had a secondary purpose? What if the Covenant were right about the Great Journey? What if the rings also served as a [i]transportation system[/i], more specifically a transportation system for energy; a transportation system to Heaven? I believe that when the Halo array was activated by Didact, all of the Forerunner who were not protected inside a shield world were killed. However, their energy still remained behind even though their body and mind were useless. The blast was able to absorb that energy (since the blast was energy itself) and transport it to a shield world (as it continued its path across the galaxy) where it would be contained in a Slipspace Field Pod where a cloned body would be waiting for them. Now, I know where you're thinking. "There is absolutely no proof for any of that." But I would like you to consider a few things. 1. The Forerunner already knew how to live for substantial periods of time. In [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Terminals#Transcripts]terminal three[/url] Didact and the Librarian are having a conversation regarding Mendicant Bias. The line that struck me as most peculiar was this "Have you learned nothing in these last [300 years[?]]? The thing will laugh at your efforts!" I believe this is implying that Didact has lived for, and has been fighting the Flood for, at least 300 years. Now, I know that those could be referring to him not learning anything from records of the Forerunner-Flood War which span 300 years. However, it seems just by the phrasing of the quote (have you learned nothing "in" these last 300 years, implying that he was there, as opposed to saying have you learned nothing "from" these last 300 years, which would imply that he could have studied the battles that occurred over the last 300 years) that the Librarian is suggesting that Didact has learned nothing as a result of his first hand knowledge of fighting the Flood. If this is the case, the Forerunner found a way to vastly increase their lifespan (assuming the have a similar anatomy to humans which is up for debate). I believe that they found a way to clone themselves and transport their energy into that new body. 2. The Forerunner knew how to clone bodies from DNA samples. In the [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Bestiarum]Halo 3 Bestiarum[/url] it states, [quote]DNA/RNA/Silicon samples are encoded in this datastream. Reproduction of individuals for analysis is prohibited by [u]this facility[/u].[/quote] Note "this facility". Why would it be necessary to make the distinction (whether or not cloning was permitted) if they did not have the technology to do so. The Forerunner possessed DNA samples of every species they indexed. It was/is well within their power to create clones of every one of the species listed in the Bestarium. 3. The Forerunner had technology for preserving bodies and preventing them from aging. In Halo, Ghosts of Onyx, Blue Team (Fred, Kelly and Linda) along with Dr. Halsey and Mendez stumble upon a series of [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Slipspace_Field_Pod]Slipspace Field Pods[/url] that the sentinels used to store the members of Team Katana. These pods put their user into slip space and essentially rendered them immune to all forms of damage as well as the effects of time. The Forerunner could have easily cloned their own bodies, (or even "default" bodies) aged the clone to a desired age, then stored it in the slip space pod until it was needed. (Note that these clones would be completely devoid of their own energy, they would simply be "parts"). Currently there is no known way to open these pods. (I think these pods were in a default "open" position which explains how Team Katana was able to be stored inside of them). I believe that they can only be opened from the inside; making sure the bodies weren't tampered with until their owner could reclaim them. Using this strategy, the Forerunner could have placed these bodies inside the shield worlds, activated the array, and then waited until their energy was transferred into the bodies. It would be like they never died. 4. The Forerunner already knew how to transport matter. We already know the Forerunner could create a teleportation system for matter (as evidenced by 343 Guilty Spark being able to transport the Chief around Installation 04). Is it so much of a stretch to assume this teleportation system could be used for energy (which I claim is matter) as well? [quote][/quote] [b]Heaven Within this Plane of Existence[/b] So, (assuming this theory is correct) the Forerunner were able to create a system where they lived forever in an artificial plane of existence; a paradise (the micro Dyson Spheres on their shield worlds), which they had complete control over (weather, the types of vegetation, in essence a place where they had complete mastery of their surroundings). Doesn't that sound a bit like Heaven? The Forerunner were obviously adamant that they failed in their goal of protecting sentient life. After they activated the array it is said that they left this arm of the galaxy. Most theorists have taken this as literal. However, I believe they are still here, in their shield worlds, completely withdrawn from the rest of the galaxy (Even though the shield worlds are physically "here" the Forerunner would reside inside the micro Dyson Sphere which is slip space generated space thus they would literally be outside this galaxy). I also believe that the Forerunner desired humanity to follow in their footsteps reclaim their technology and join them in their artificial Heaven. [Edited on 08.06.2010 3:08 PM PDT]
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  • dibbs089

    dibbs089

    6/20/2010 11:17:25 PM Permalink
    [quote]Before I begin this exploration into what I am I must first acknowledge two of Descartes' fundamental beliefs as true. First, that I am, I exist. Second, that I am a thinking being capable of forming thoughts about the world around me. Though I cannot actually prove the existence of the body and the mind without a doubt I will assume them to exist as is but that their perceptions of the world around them may be skewed or downright false. So, what am I? Some may venture to say that I am a corporeal object, simply a body. They may say I am a simple union of cells crawling closer to my demise with every second that passes, and that after my body is dead and gone, I cease to be. But isn't it more than that? Remember we are thinking beings and thinking is done with the mind (from this point on brain will be synonymous with mind). Descartes holds that the body and mind are two separate substances; working in unison no doubt, but also independent of one another. I will hold this belief to be true as well. That being said, could it be all that I am is simply a brain; an organic tool certainly special and unique, but destined to die and cease to be after a certain amount of time? The proponents of the B.I.V. (Brain in Vat) theory would have me believe that all that I am, the essence of me, is an organic bundle of gray mass. That in actuality I am my brain and that after it ceases to be, so do I. While this is closer to what I believe to be the truth, it has yet to grab the essence of it. I believe that I am what the religious would call a soul; a being of energy working in tangent with both my body and mind in order to achieve life. I do not believe that I am supernatural in that I am made from God and that the essence of me is not of this earth. I believe that I am a special kind of energy (that from this point on I will denote as "energy" so as not to restrain the idea by weighing it down with preconceived notions of the soul) found only in living things. It would follow that plants and animals as well are endowed with this energy. (I will venture a guess here and say that the energy comes from cells themselves. They are the smallest units of life and I believe the answer to what we are is hidden within them). The proof that energy is different from the mind is the notion of decision. Remember, the mind is a thinking thing as are we. However, the mind is not only limited to thought. The mind retains information and is able to recall it when situations arise that require specific information. This is how we are able to make split second decisions and arrive at logical conclusions, because the mind evaluates the information we have learned and provides us with what is most relevant at a time of need. What it cannot do, however, is act on those decisions and determine the right choice of action. If you were passing a burning building and you suddenly saw a person hanging out the second story window screaming for help, your mind would evaluate the situation. First, it would tell you that something is wrong and the situation requires immediate action. Next, that the fire consuming the building is dangerous. Next, that your options could either be to save that person yourself, go and get help, or do nothing. Your mind then evaluates each decision based on prior facts and knowledge (fame (you save her) vs. obscurity (you let someone else do it) and, a good chance of death (you try to save her yourself) vs. life (you let a professional do it)) and leaves it up to you, energy, to determine what decision will be made. That is the difference between you and your mind. You are the whole of your mind; all of it is you. However, your mind is not all of you because you are free from it at least by your ability to make decisions. From this it follows that who we are, our essence, is very much dependent upon our mind; how much experience it has had of the world, if it retains a lot of useful information, if the facts it brings to attention are relevant to the situation, etc. (Now many would say that if the brain is choosing which facts to give to the individual it can make decisions as well. This is false in that the brain acts much like an internet search engine. The situation that requires information is the keyword, and from that keyword it takes all the information that is stored, matches it, and makes you aware of said information. Your brain then is a search engine, constantly adding new information that can be accessed and updating previously known information, and you, energy, are the person at the keyboard. It should be noted as well that your brain often acts independently of what you "type in". It is truly a marvel in itself and if we were to try and control all of its actions in addition to living life, we would not be able to function.) Thus, though the mind is separate from energy, energy depends very much on the mind to make it what it is. Babies are different from adults because their mind is not yet situated to the world. The energy is there but it cannot accurately interpret the information around it. No experience has been imprinted onto the energy, thus the personality, "who they are" has yet to be established. Thus, at that point, what the baby is is simply a being capable of making decisions, but a being deprived of the knowledge to make informed decisions. The same holds true for plants and animals. They are energy from the second their life begins; however, as a result of their inferior minds (or lack of minds all together) they cannot make the same decisions or think the more advanced thoughts of humans. Animals are limited by their lack of a complex mind. Their thoughts and actions are all the results of brains that are inferior to ours. Plants have it even worse, however. They lack a true animal "body" in addition to lacking a mind. But the important implication to remember is that if the energy of a plant or animal were given the mind and body of a human, they would in all sense be human themselves. The energy of all living things is exactly the same. It is the mind and body that influence how thoughts, memories, and actions are imprinted onto this energy. I think I have sufficiently proved that what we are is indeed separate from the body and mind, yet utterly dependent on both to define the essence of what we are. I will now venture into the realm of religious discussion and state why I believe what we are is not a soul and why what we are can neither enter the realm of heaven nor of hell (I do not believe they exist but for this argument, I will assume that they exist and operate under the rules ascribed to them in the Bible). I have previously stated that we are in fact energy of one form or another. That being said, this energy exists and is as real as the computer I am looking at now, it follows that the laws of science apply to it; more specifically I am referring to the laws of matter. Einstein's theory of relativity together with the principle of causality requires that no matter or information can travel faster than the speed of light. Speeds faster than that of light are encountered in physics but, in all such cases, no matter or information is transmitted any faster than that. Thus since what you are, energy, is matter, it must abide by those rules and that it definitely cannot travel faster than the speed of light. That being said, the distance that light travels in one year, a.k.a a light-year, is about 6 trillion miles or about 9.5 trillion kilometers. The Milky Way galaxy is 1000 light years thick and has a diameter of 100,000 light years. In addition the universe is composed of HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of galaxies. Thus, even traveling at the fastest speed possible, that of light, and assuming heaven and hell were exactly outside of the Milky Way, it would still take 1,000 years after death to reach those places. Because the Bible states that Heaven and Hell are alternate planes of existence is follows logically that they lie outside of the universe. Thus after death it would take around 100 trillion years (one hundred billion x one thousand) to reach either heaven or hell. If you still believe this is possible consider that the universe has only existed for around 13.7 billion years; or, if you follow the Bible, around 6,000 years. Consider as well that some believe the universe to be infinite, which, if that's the case, would surely make it difficult to escape and thus pass into the realm of heaven or hell. So what exactly are you when you die? All that's left is the energy; you yourself. It is all of your emotions, thoughts, believes, and experiences. However, without the mind you are deprived of the ability to think, and without the body you are deprived of all of your senses. Essentially, you never die, however you are completely unable to express yourself in any way and most likely aren't aware you are dead.[/quote] I know this contains a lot of information and has little to do with Halo, however, all I'm asking you to do is to accept two things. First, that in the Halo Universe, such a thing as a "soul" exists. [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Terminals]Terminal One[/url] outlines a conversation between Didact and the Librarian. It states, [quote]We have no time to spare, Didact. Every vessel we can fill, we send to the Ark. I dare not cease the mission. Not now, not until I've done all I can. Each one of these souls is finite and precious. And I'm close. Close to saving them all.[/quote]Taken literally, this is strongly suggests the existence of souls. Second, that this "soul" is actually matter and that it must follow the laws that are ascribed to matter. If these two off-topic conditions are accepted, then we can get to the meat of the theory. Holding the above as true, then, what we are is energy. But how exactly does this relate to Halo, the Forerunner, or Heaven? [quote][/quote] [Edited on 08.06.2010 3:07 PM PDT]
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