• ferrex
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I meant to post this on Friday, but then it was Saturday suddenly. I hate that.

Team Hardcore - Base Settings
As we read it, the community is broadly in agreement about two specific Team Hardcore settings:

Base Initial Primary Weapon: Battle Rifle
Base Motion Sensor Type: Disabled

We're going to be tweaking this slightly and set the Base Motion Sensor Type to "Allies Only". This setting allows you to keep better track of your allies who are nearby, and also keeps objectives on the motion sensor where some people watch for them. It throws people a little at first, especially if they expect no motion sensor whatsoever, but you get used to it quickly. So don't freak out when you see the motion sensor when you play THC that first time--it's only showing friendlies, and you can still gank inattentive opponents.

Team Hardcore - Advanced Settings
On the subject of advanced settings, there are a myriad of opinions, but no broad concensus in the community. MLG conventions like 110% speed / 90% shield recharge are interesting, and we will pay attention to them for future updates, but in general we are sticking to conventional settings for this first pass of the THC playlist.

Team Hardcore - Gametypes
Based on the Halo 2 playlist(s) and the feedback we've been reading here, we have selected a 4v4 mixed gametype format for Team Hardcore. We are well aware that this will have some Slayer purists up in arms, while at the same time enraging people who wish only to play HC style objective games. However, if there's one truth in this business, it's that you can't please everybody, or sometimes, anybody. That said, the current game weighting looks like this:

HC Slayer - 31.1%
HC Snipers - 7.6%
HC Multi Flag- 21.2%
HC One Flag - 13.6%
HC Land Grab - 6.8%
HC One Bomb - 14.4%
HC VIP - 5.3%

Slayer is weighted heavily, perhaps too much so when you count Snipers, but Team Slayer is a solid favorite and I don't believe it will be unpopular. Land Grab and VIP may be more controversial, as they were not present in Halo 2, but both gametypes reward coordinated team play, and VIP in particular is improved by disabling hostiles on the motion sensor.

We will, of course, be paying attention to feedback and veto data to dial in the gametype weighting.

Team Hardcore - Map Variants
We are still tweaking the map variants, but some notable omissions will be the Regenerator (aka. instant win device when everyone is using BRs) and Jammer (for obvious reasons), longer respawn times on power weapons and powerups, and light vehicles only. Other prior map changes, like the reduction in Maulers, will also be in effect.

---

And it bears repeating that this playlist will be evolving over time. Also, some things may change over course of the next week as we continue to playtest. THC will launch on December 18 along with the revamped Team Objective and Team Control playlists, barring any major upsets.

• Anonymous User (Deleted)

I cant wait for the new playlist for Team Objective.....Woo hoooo. 8 more days.


MartyMoose

• blueterroR
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this is really failure to listen to the feedback of the hardcore community. no ones asking for 1 flag ctf, vip, land grab or even team snipes. The community asked for ts, king of the hill, oddball on guardian. longer respawns on power weapons? theyre already 3 mintues on respawn! way to make us not motivated to move around! Im really angry at the choices for objective gametypes, but im hoping that you guys listen to not just me but the many, many hundreds of angry competitive gamers that wanted a setting that didnt want silly gametypes like land freaking grab, one bomb and vip. I cant take those settings seriously as it is, br start or not.

Please listen to the feedback that was given. Ive gone thorugh all 74 pages and no one is freaking asking for those gametypes.

• gamejock829
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I just have a comment on the last topic you had discussed about the 5 and 6 player Lone Wolf Matches. I actually like the original 8 player lone wolf and in my opinion I think it is more fun to just keep dying one after another because there are so many people but that is what makes it fun. I would really not like it if it goes down to 5 players that is just stupid. I will continue to play lone wolves but I think that it should be more players.

Thanks,

gamejock829

• Parsistamon
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I love slayer, but I think that it could have a little less weight in order to accomodate oddball and KOTH. Those both woudl be good THC gametypes i believe.

• aKnob
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Why do they have their gametypes over than Slayer, Hill, CTF, and Oddball? No one in the "hardcore" community plays Land Grab or One Flag or anything else you added..ever.

All Bungie had to do was get what MLG had on their site and use that as a playlist. It's not really that hard.

Why is the radar set to "Allies Only" when we can already see their number clear as day above their heads? That just takes up space. I think people know not to shoot people the same color as them by now...and if not I think they'll figure it out without a radar. Why prolong weapon and powerup respawns? The only good change that was made was making it BR start.

[Edited on 12.10.2007 3:19 PM PST]

• XARio
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I think bungie really hates the competive players everything they do sucks. Almost every competive player hates 1 flag and land grab. Where the hell is team ball. If this is a competive list why not follow tournament rules. Bungie ruins a play list that had me actually likeing MM again now hearing this it makes me cry inside. I can see that this list was made for new halo players that think they are good. Bungie sucks

O i forgot to say is how is this true to Team Hardcore like u said in the update. If i remember right h2 hardcore was almost just like mlg rules with a couple of bungie tweeks. Now I dont remember 1 flag and land grab in it How hard is it to please the competive player.

[Edited on 12.10.2007 3:23 PM PST]

• Anonymous User (Deleted)

Thanks for all those steps backwards.

Back to COD4*



Posted by: ferrex
I meant to post this on Friday, but then it was Saturday suddenly. I hate that.

Team Hardcore - Base Settings
As we read it, the community is broadly in agreement about two specific Team Hardcore settings:

Base Initial Primary Weapon: Battle Rifle
Base Motion Sensor Type: Disabled

We're going to be tweaking this slightly and set the Base Motion Sensor Type to "Allies Only". This setting allows you to keep better track of your allies who are nearby, and also keeps objectives on the motion sensor where some people watch for them. It throws people a little at first, especially if they expect no motion sensor whatsoever, but you get used to it quickly. So don't freak out when you see the motion sensor when you play THC that first time--it's only showing friendlies, and you can still gank inattentive opponents.

Team Hardcore - Advanced Settings
On the subject of advanced settings, there are a myriad of opinions, but no broad concensus in the community. MLG conventions like 110% speed / 90% shield recharge are interesting, and we will pay attention to them for future updates, but in general we are sticking to conventional settings for this first pass of the THC playlist.

Team Hardcore - Gametypes
Based on the Halo 2 playlist(s) and the feedback we've been reading here, we have selected a 4v4 mixed gametype format for Team Hardcore. We are well aware that this will have some Slayer purists up in arms, while at the same time enraging people who wish only to play HC style objective games. However, if there's one truth in this business, it's that you can't please everybody, or sometimes, anybody. That said, the current game weighting looks like this:

HC Slayer - 31.1%
HC Snipers - 7.6%
HC Multi Flag- 21.2%
HC One Flag - 13.6%
HC Land Grab - 6.8%
HC One Bomb - 14.4%
HC VIP - 5.3%

Slayer is weighted heavily, perhaps too much so when you count Snipers, but Team Slayer is a solid favorite and I don't believe it will be unpopular. Land Grab and VIP may be more controversial, as they were not present in Halo 2, but both gametypes reward coordinated team play, and VIP in particular is improved by disabling hostiles on the motion sensor.

We will, of course, be paying attention to feedback and veto data to dial in the gametype weighting.

Team Hardcore - Map Variants
We are still tweaking the map variants, but some notable omissions will be the Regenerator (aka. instant win device when everyone is using BRs) and Jammer (for obvious reasons), longer respawn times on power weapons and powerups, and light vehicles only. Other prior map changes, like the reduction in Maulers, will also be in effect.

---

And it bears repeating that this playlist will be evolving over time. Also, some things may change over course of the next week as we continue to playtest. THC will launch on December 18 along with the revamped Team Objective and Team Control playlists, barring any major upsets.

• Anonymous User (Deleted)

I understand the gripes of the naysayers, but I'd have to commend you guys on this first iteration of THC. I personally think all of the variety will make for a great playlist, and I was exceptionally excited at the news of Hardcore Snipers. I do agree that some KOTH or Oddball gametypes would have been nice, but I'm confident those will come in the future. I also agree with the "Allies Only" radar decision; I think that will be a good choice in the long run. In an ideal world good communication would be most important and it would be a better choice to exclude radar, but many people here are forgetting that not every person who will be playing this playlist talks to their team, or even has a mic. I think you guys have made some good choices with this playlist and I am excited for its release.

To those who are complaining, keep in mind that ferrex said this playlist was a work in progress and will evolve over time. Remember how many people were displeased with the playlists when the game launched? Tons of progress has been made as a result of our suggestions: a renovated Team Objective, better maps for Team Slayer, the addition of this THC playlist, promise of ranked BTB by early next year, etc. Ferrex is on our side and your suggestions are not falling on deaf ears, (as this entire thread has been proving for the last few weeks) so be patient and changes will come.

• Magni Harvald
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Posted by: Shockey
I understand the gripes of the naysayers, but I'd have to commend you guys on this first iteration of THC. I personally think all of the variety will make for a great playlist, and I was exceptionally excited at the news of Hardcore Snipers. I do agree that some KOTH or Oddball gametypes would have been nice, but I'm confident those will come in the future. I also agree with the "Allies Only" radar decision; I think that will be a good choice in the long run. In an ideal world good communication would be most important and it would be a better choice to exclude radar, but many people here are forgetting that not every person who will be playing this playlist talks to their team, or even has a mic. I think you guys have made some good choices with this playlist and I am excited for its release.

To those who are complaining, keep in mind that ferrex said this playlist was a work in progress and will evolve over time. Remember how many people were displeased with the playlists when the game launched? Tons of progress has been made as a result of our suggestions: a renovated Team Objective, better maps for Team Slayer, the addition of this THC playlist, promise of ranked BTB by early next year, etc. Ferrex is on our side and your suggestions are not falling on deaf ears, (as this entire thread has been proving for the last few weeks) so be patient and changes will come.

I agree, ferrex is on our side and the playlist will -crosses fingers- evolve for the better, but seriously, what's the point of having an 85+ page thread devoted to THC suggestions from THC players if they're not going to be used at all?! A bit more and they would have forgotten BR starts and put Swords in for kicks. There's more to THC than TS+BR starts. There's faster gameplay, neutral objectives like Oddball, KotH, ad Neutral Bomb, etc etc.
The only reason I see Snipers in there is to throw a bone to those asking for a TSnipers playlist. They might as well throw in some SWAT! Like I said before, this isn't Team Hardcore. This is the bastard child of all the different playlists people are asking for, and in an attempt to please the majority Bungie is doing quite the opposite.

• chucknorris274
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i highly respect bungie's move here. they are establishing some settings, but are open to change if necessary. i do hope bungie considers adding king and oddball, just to see.

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Posted by: Renagade 217
Posted by: Majelarp
I'm sorry, but I think that this is a horrible start. I'm not someone who wanted exact MLG settings. I'm not even an MLG player. (I do like some of the things they've done so far though). So don't think I'm someone that was expecting an MLG playlist.

I do not like the radar setup at all. The whole point of hardcore is teamwork and communication. You should be talking with your team and paying attention to know where they are and where the objectives are. The allies only just seems like a crutch being added for the teams that don't communicate well. I

The gametypes setup is really, really bad IMO. Land grab, one bomb/flag, VIP?!?!? No king or oddball?!?!? Where you guys listening to any of the input from the forums?

I'm a bit dissapointed that you were not willing to test out any player trait modifications in the first run, but are willing to try out a bunch of gametypes that most people weren't talking about wanting as well as the allies only radar. I was hoping for the 110% increase in speed, but it's not as important as the other aspects, like gametypes, to me. I just wish the player speed was a bit faster is all.

It really seems like you guys completely ignored everything being said on this forum. I think you're really screwed up the first run for THC. I honestly do not think I will play this very much, if at all. I really hope that there are changes done very quickly in the first week, and we don't have to deal with this incarnation of the playlist for long. I just can't believe how far off this is from what most of the people on here have been talking about.

This is just my personal opinion of course, but I think there will be quite a few people that will agree with me.

This is how i feel but im too disappointed to write it all out.

Back to COD4*

BTW COD4 created a hardcore playlist on day 1 without months of testing and fake feedback threads and they managed to do it quite well.

Whie I wasn't in favor of impelmenting the MLG v2 settings 100% this is far from what I and many within the community had in mind. I think I can equally share in your dissappointment especially with the exclusion of Oddball and KOTH. While I respect and admire what Bungie has done in the past and am fully aware of their attempt to appeal to a varied group of players within the community, I have to admit that I'm extremely puzzled by the decisions that have been made here. Ferrex, if you have a moment could you please elaborate a bit more in regards to why 1flag ctf, land grab and vip have been added yet koth and oddball are nowhere to be found? I don't recall many ,if any, players asking for the first 3 gametypes in a THC playlist. Get ready guys because the **** will be hitting the fan in mere moments.

• squidNH3
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You guys seriously need to wait and give this a chance. I'm actually quite excited about Land Grab: it's a very strategic gametype, and I loved it in the Beta, but haven't really seen it since. I think it fits Hardcore very well. VIP could certainly work out well, and I'm certainly willing to try 1-Flag. However, I do agree that KoTH and Oddball should be the first modifications made to the playlist. As far as advanced settings go, I haven't really tried 110% speed or the damage ones, so I don't much have an opinion on that, but the default settings seem to work fine in the rest of Matchmaking. That's something that should only be modified after seeing how the default settings work out in Hardcore.