This conversation has gotten muddy and way too off rails. So I'm going to condense the main points here. As op has been identified as a console player, these points are relative to consoles. Spoilers to condense text so it's not just a **** off big wall .the main point, there are cheaters in pvp. .cheaters are bad actors that should be banned. [spoiler]If you disagree with either of these point as they are made in specific. Feel free to comment down below so we can all block you.[/spoiler] .hacks are possible on console (hacking in this context refers to code manipulation And cheating to everything that gives an unfair advantage. All hacking is cheating but not all cheating is hacking) [spoiler]This point is true but not impactful. The skills and tools required to do this are just enough steps to be more than your average person is willing to do and can easily result in a bricked console. This requires modified hardware and software. That often isn't compatible with the servers of the console company, and if they do, once detected, they often result in hardware and account bans, with the company at times outright bricking the console. So, while possible, it's not cost effective or common, so it is likely not pertinent to this conversation as a whole[/spoiler] .there are studies that say that [redacted]% of all players cheat or something to that effect. [spoiler] Not automatically trusting studies that haven't been provided should be the standard. Data can be misused and miss representated and often is by individuals and companies alike. For example, certain regions have significantly higher rates of cheating due to societal norms or preasures. If the studies in question were "an estimated 40% of all gamers in [redacted] are cheating," then it wouldn't be relevant to the conversation. Or if the studies were sat, specific to E-sports games. Additionally, most of the references I've seen here sound like extrapolated data. Meaning they took a sample size and got their data, then made assumptions for a larger scale. While this can have its uses generally, it can not be the foundation of your argument. Anyone with a study they'd like to reference link it down below[/spoiler] .OPs specific comment: trials is run by cheaters. [spoiler] This comment generously interpreted obviously implies that trials effectively have more cheaters than non cheaters, while nobody we haven't already blocked via the first comment should argue there are none. The conversation revolves around how many. While i won't personally speculate on the quantity, however, a level of distrust is inherent in these conversations because of the "crying wolf" problem, where ppl will call legitimate players cheaters. I personally have been falsley accused of cheating a number of times. This makes taking any assertion of quantity suspect to a lot of us. Beyond that, realistically, nobody here has the data to back up one side or the other concretely , period.[/spoiler] The majority of this conversation isn't about if there is cheating, but how much and why such claims are distrusted And since no one had concrete data one way or the other, this conversation in the long run is a dead end.

[quote]PERIOD[/quote] Is that 👆🏼 why you're cranky?

Doubt it's as often as you claim.

It's plagued by it, sure, but not run by it. I see cheaters in my time playing, but I only see them at most 3-5 times in a given weekend. And I generally play trials more than the average person, meaning I'm gonna see more of them than average. Those 3-5 times can ruin a card, sure, but at the end of the day if I keep at it I'm still getting my flawless. The existence of those cheaters doesn't devalue the individual players skill.

It's been ruined by this for awhile now and Bungie really doesn't care.

Yeah, that is what defines Trials: cheating! The so-called PVP end game...

yep and the sandbox changes reward the cheaters

And casual 6v6 etc. Fact of gaming online in 2024.

Well, you do have a better chance of running into such mouth-breathers in Trials. But not everyone is cheating.

You sir are not alone. Check stats you will be blown away dude

[quote]PERIOD[/quote] Pad.